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OR God knows that no matter what He did you would choose to not believe. God gave you free will to believe or not believe.I'm not sure what evidence could convince me. But you know who does know for sure? And could provide that evidence within seconds? God. So the fact that he hasn't done so indicates that he either can't, or isn't interested in me believing.
There is no way these things (human body, the sun, etc.) came into existence through evolution.
The creation was clearly designed by an intelligent designer.
So in other words, God created me knowing that nothing he did could ever convince me, and that I was destined for hell? What a horrific monster.OR God knows that no matter what He did you would choose to not believe. God gave you free will to believe or not believe.
God created two perfect human beings, with free will. Adam and Eve. That's it. The rest of us are a product of our parents.So in other words, God created me knowing that nothing he did could ever convince me, and that I was destined for hell? What a horrific monster.
There is no way these things (human body, the sun, etc.) came into existence through evolution. The creation was clearly designed by an intelligent designer. Think about how complex your body is man. Come on man use your brain. Speaking of the brain how complex is that? And it's just one part of the amazing human body. God is an awesome architect.
Romans 1:20-21
For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
If puny human 'logic' has convinced you that "God (is either) a moral monster or non-existent.", then which ever you prefer, live with it (which is already the beginning of hell).
What a depressingly self-deprecating view of oneself. Yes, you deserve nothing less than eternal torment, because...Your previous postings seem to imply that you think you don't deserve to go to hell. The logic of my faith leads me to believe that we all deserve nothing less.
I owe my neighbor's dog nothing, but if I strung it up in my basement and spent several days working it over with a skinning knife until it died, people would rightfully call me a monster.God owes us nothing.
"O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?” Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?
Then there is the famous case of Lourdes and the French atheist/writer/philosopher, Emile Zola.
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And that's the whole point of the thread, isn't it? I've sought out God and found nothing. It's like... imagine your friend starts talking about his awesome girlfriend from Canada who you've totally got to meet. But she's not on facebook or skype, has no phone, and all the letters from her, the only method of communication your friend can produce, are written in his handwriting. It's a little like that, except that God isn't from Canada. He's everywhere. So there's really no reason why he couldn't pop in and say hello.@Cadet - God is not a concept to be proved. He is The Person to be known
What a depressingly self-deprecating view of oneself. Yes, you deserve nothing less than eternal torment, because...
...
...No, really, what, exactly, is the great crime that makes one worthy of this? That we exist? That we aren't perfect in a way that is explicitly designed to be impossible?
I owe my neighbor's dog nothing, but if I strung it up in my basement and spent several days working it over with a skinning knife until it died, people would rightfully call me a monster.
Clay can't think. It can't feel. It isn't sentient or sapient or capable of rational thought. It can't experience pain. It is a poor comparison to humans. If I were to craft a sentient being (say, for example, an AI program built as a 1:1 model copy of a human brain), this would not give me the right to torture it, and were I to actually create "android hell", you would be right to call me a monster for doing so.
Take a step back and you see how absurd all of this becomes. Simply by means of existing and not holding up to an impossible standard you think you deserve to be tortured forever. You believe that might makes right, or that creating a being gives you the right to torment it. That's absurd.
I have not been presented with convincing evidence that a god exists.
Any omniscient, omnipotent god would know exactly what would be necessary to convince me, and would be easily able to make that happen.
Ergo, assuming that God exists, God necessarily has no interest in whether or not I am convinced of his existence.
Now, if we assume a literal hell, wouldn't this be a horrific moral oversight on God's end?
Really? You don't understand the god of the Bible yet you want to assert that somebody designed him?God is so complex, there is no way he did not have an intelligent designer.
"Everyone who is seriously interested in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the universe – a spirit vastly superior to man, and one in the face of which our modest powers must seem humble." -Albert Einstein
His point was that you claim your god to be the cause for creation, but you do not offer a cause for the creation of your god. You just push back the question for the cause one level without solving it.Well as I wasn't addressing your post or you, I have no idea what point you're talking about?
Okay, let's assume for the moment that this is true (what evolution has to do with the sun I don't know; evolution describes the change and diversification of existing species)... Even then, this statement:
Is a clear non-sequitur. If we do not have a viable explanation for something, "God did it" does not win by default. You need to actually justify your claim that God did it!
So in other words, God created me knowing that nothing he did could ever convince me, and that I was destined for hell? What a horrific monster.
Look, I can't choose my beliefs. I can't just decide to shut off my critical thinking and accept things I believe to be false. No matter what threats or bribes are offered, I will never believe that 2+2=5 or that the earth is flat without considerable evidence convincing me thereof! I need evidence. I'm not sure what form the necessary evidence takes, but it's not like an Atheist has never been converted.
It doesn't really matter though, because the thrust of my argument is this. Here's how this breaks down:
1. It's impossible for me to be convinced. In that case, God wished to see me suffer in hell for all eternity when he created me.
2. It's possible for me to be convinced, but god hasn't bothered. In that case, God has no problem seeing me suffer in hell for all eternity.
3. It's possible for me to be convinced, but there is no God.
It's not really possible to come out of this without God being a moral monster or non-existent.
God is Spirit and is difficult to quantify and rationalize .
What is 'spirit', please?
Could you define it precisely so that we may know it when we see it?
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