God Creating Complex Objects With Apparent Age

[DogmaHunter]

As with the OP content, as applicable to all that read it, which should a person turn to - foremost - in order to find Reality, turn to God or their intellect?

If you want to find out about reality, you turn to reality to investigate it - using your intellect.

It's how we have learned all these marvelous things which enabled us to build computers and such. This knowledge doesn't come from religion, nore is it dependend upon it.

In fact, in a lot of cases, this is how we progressed away from irrational religious beliefs concerning certain phenomena of reality.

Religious beliefs have never overturned scientifically concluded knowledge. It only happens the other way round.

In turning to God foremost it means - receiving foremost what the Holy Spirit teaches, and our intellect in subjection and need of teaching from the Holy Spirit in order to find Reality about Earth's origin and history.

You go ahead and do that.

Meanwhile, the rest of the world will be turning to reality to find out about reality and actually make progress.
The fruit of which, you will ironically happily make your own by then posting your wacky "last thursdayism" ideas on some forum at light speed using a high-tech device.

Can a person by-pass God and only use theirvibtellect to know the Reality of Earth's past?

Doing exactly that is what has build our high-tech society.

 

[Heissonear]

You mean your "Last Thursdayism"-style belief.

I have not read any books (besides the Bible) of history of how God Created Earth with an Apparent-Mature Age.

So I do not understand any details of "Last Thursday-ism"


As a Scientist and Follower of God and His Scriptures, the sources of now seeing God used Apparent Age when Creating this physical realm have been my academic finding of major error in Evolution, the Reading of many sections of the Bible, and by being Taught be the Holy Spirit, whom dwells within me, as clear in the Scriptures.

 

[bhsmte]

As with any scientific principle, like centrifugal force and the speed of light, the below is a fundamental of reality in our midst.

View attachment 220105

The source of this reality is both the Bible and firsthand experience. It is testable, as many have found.

You should put it to the test. I did, like many.

How do you put this to the test, in a falsifiable and reliable way.

Please demonstrate.

 

[DogmaHunter]

I have not read any books (besides the Bible) of history of how God Created Earth with an Apparent-Mature Age.

Maybe you should read some other books once in a while....

So I do not understand any details of "Last Thursday-ism"

Which is strange, because I have explained it to you what it is several times this week alone.
I guess that's why you can't seem to respond on-topic.

"last thursdayism" is the conceptual idea that the universe and everything it contains (including our memories of having lived all our lives), was created last thursday. So it centers around the whole "apparant age/history" notion. The idea that something is created while making it look as if it is much older then it really is.

It is an absurd belief to hold. And it is the exact belief that you hold and preach. Literally.
Only in your case, it's not "last thursday-ism", it is "6000 years ago-ism".

As a Scientist

Give me a break!

and Follower of God and His Scriptures, the sources of now seeing God used Apparent Age when Creating this physical realm have been my academic finding of major error in Evolution,

So when do you get your nobel prize for turning established science on its head?

ps: it's not evolution that would be in error in that case. It's basically all of science: biology, geology, paleontology, physics, chemistry, astronomy, cosmology,............

Because all those fields contribute in their own way to the very reality that the universe is some 13.7 billion years old, the solar system some 4.6 billion years old, the earth some 4.5 billion years old and life at least 3.6 billion years old.

You may continue now again ignoring my post and repeating the same nonsense again. And don't forget to include bible verses!

 

[Heissonear]

If you want to find out about reality, you turn to reality to investigate it - using your intellect.

Religious beliefs have never overturned scientifically concluded knowledge. It only happens the other way round.

It is difficult to reply to each question and item you bring up. But hopefully I can reply to your major statements.

About your statement above, we can find a ton of reality in this physical realm by our intellect and use of the scientific method. I do not question that at all, and such should be a given to realize by and scientist.

What I do state in the OP is about conclusions from information and evidence about the Earth's origin and history.

I state that one must not use such geologic information and their intellect only.

By doing so they reach conclusions about the history of Earth that is based on their intellect.

In the OP I stated which shold be foremost in what we should turn to in order to know the Reality of Earth's origin and history. God or our intellect.

And continued to say one who states by their intellect would be by-passing what God teaches in the Bible and directly teaches through the Holy Spirit. This would exalt ones intellect over what God may say.

 

[Heissonear]

Maybe you should read some other books once in a while....



Which is strange, because I have explained it to you what it is several times this week alone.
I guess that's why you can't seem to respond on-topic.

"last thursdayism" is the conceptual idea that the universe and everything it contains (including our memories of having lived all our lives), was created last thursday. So it centers around the whole "apparant age/history" notion. The idea that something is created while making it look as if it is much older then it really is.

It is an absurd belief to hold. And it is the exact belief that you hold and preach. Literally.
Only in your case, it's not "last thursday-ism", it is "6000 years ago-ism".



Give me a break!



So when do you get your nobel prize for turning established science on its head?

ps: it's not evolution that would be in error in that case. It's basically all of science: biology, geology, paleontology, physics, chemistry, astronomy, cosmology,............

Because all those fields contribute in their own way to the very reality that the universe is some 13.7 billion years old, the solar system some 4.6 billion years old, the earth some 4.5 billion years old and life at least 3.6 billion years old.

You may continue now again ignoring my post and repeating the same nonsense again. And don't forget to include bible verses!

Last Thursday-ism is what you think I am presenting. This may not be true in details. But you have right to assume all aspects and details. I do not know.

 

[DogmaHunter]

About your statement above, we can find a ton of reality in this physical realm by our intellect and use of the scientific method. I do not question that at all, and such should be a given to realize by and scientist.

Great.

What I do state in the OP is about conclusions from information and evidence about the Earth's origin and history.

This contradicts the previous quote.
That is what science is about: gather intel, draw up hypothesis, test, form conclusion, re-test, etc.

I state that one must not use such geologic information and their intellect only.

That makes no sense.
What else is there?

By doing so they reach conclusions about the history of Earth that is based on their intellect.

No. They reach conclusions based on the actual evidence.

In the OP I stated which shold be foremost in what we should turn to in order to know the Reality of Earth's origin and history. God or our intellect.

There is zero reason to turn to your particular religion of choice to learn about reality.
There is, however, much reason to stay away from it - when the goal is to actually learn about actual reality.

And continued to say one who states by their intellect would be by-passing what God teaches in the Bible and directly teaches through the Holy Spirit

When the bible and the evidence in reality are not in agreement - it's not reality that is wrong!

This is a point that you really need to learn to understand....
It is where all your confusion and misconceptions seem to be rooted in...

You decided ahead of time that the bible holds all the answer and that it is the end-all-be-all of literally everything. You have a priori dogmatic beliefs about that. The problem is that you have completely closed your mind of to the outside world and this is causing you to assume that if reality disagrees with your religious beliefs - that reality must be wrong. Simply because you have decided that your bible can't be wrong.

It makes no sense at all.

When literally ALL available evidence demonstrates that the earth must be old, then the only rational thing to do is accept that - regardless of what you happened to believe already concerning the earth's age.

It has even taken such an ugly turn now that you are literally suggesting us to ignore our "intellect". Essentially to shut down our brains and "just believe".


It's truelly baffling.
Honestly, and I don't mean that badly in any way, I really do feel sorry for you.
I think it's quite sad to see someone drowning so hard in fundamentalist religious beliefs that it literally has come to this.... asking people to sacrifice their intelligence and intellectual integrity, just so they could manage to believe your last-thursdayism-style YECism withou having their heads explode from the self-contradictoring and obviously false propositions....

It's fascinating. And sad.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Last Thursday-ism is what you think I am presenting.

I don't think. I know.

Your "apparant age" argument uses the exact same "logic".
You can literally put ANY past date on it: last thursday, 5 minutes ago, 5 years ago, 5000 years ago, 5 million years ago....
Additionally, you can also claim whatever "cause" for it that you can imagine.

And the argument would remain the exact same in merrit, value, testability,...
With no way to differentiate the "5minutes ago" version of the argument and the "6000 years ago" version of the argument.

That's how worthless your argument is. No merrit. No value. No application. No verifiability. Nothing worth mentioning. Just a pointless, baseless, faith based belief. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Heissonear]

.
ps: it's not evolution that would be in error in that case. It's basically all of science: biology, geology, paleontology, physics, chemistry, astronomy, cosmology,............

Because all those fields contribute in their own way to the very reality that the universe is some 13.7 billion years old, the solar system some 4.6 billion years old, the earth some 4.5 billion years old and life at least 3.6 billion years old.

What you state about applications of many sciences and evidences obtained by them I am not questioning.

What I do present is that there are major gaps of major information missing. Such missing information makes scientists use conjecture to conclude the Earth is billions of years old and not lass that ~10,000 years old.

Two major hurtles that make evolution of life on Earth not supported by evidence.

There are zero transition fossils out of billions of fossils unearthed. This should tell you something. It does me. In the Rock Record evolution never happened. Look at it. I'm a geologist - their are zero transition fossils presented in paleontology and historical geology. Only charts showing conjecture how one different life form was evolved to another. Conjecture is required. Actual fossil evidence is missing. Again this should tell you something is a miss.

In an easy to reply of the fossil record, they only show kinds. It is simple to see.

Second, there is no evidence of how life formed on Earth in the rock record, nor any of the sciences. The sciences themselfs show the impossibility of Earth processes and materials can produce complex molecules like DNA and RNA. An equivalent example would be that nature can through natural processes and materials create a car. And after a car another type of vehicle, like a farm tractor.

In my days I have seen many evolutionists try to claim evolution is a fact by obvious evidence. And I know academically their error.

I became open minded when I learned of such. That evolution requires faith. Stating evolution happened is a statement of faith.

 

[Heissonear]

I don't think. I know.

Your "apparant age" argument uses the exact same "logic".
You can literally put ANY past date on it: last thursday, 5 minutes ago, 5 years ago, 5000 years ago, 5 million years ago....
Additionally, you can also claim whatever "cause" for it that you can imagine.

And the argument would remain the exact same in merrit, value, testability,...
With no way to differentiate the "5minutes ago" version of the argument and the "6000 years ago" version of the argument.

That's how worthless your argument is. No merrit. No value. No application. No verifiability. Nothing worth mentioning. Just a pointless, baseless, faith based belief. Nothing more, nothing less.

OK, in major principle what I state by Apparent Embedded Age is a major part in Last Thursday-ism.

So be it.

The Scriptures show God uses Apparent-Mature age when Creating complex objects like Eve.

That is very evident in the Bible. Eve after 24 hour of existing did not look 1 day old, but showed maturity.

God could use Apparent-Mature Age when Creating this physical realm.

And you have no evidence to disprove it. It would be one of the Ways of God that people who have made science of Earth's origin and history become an idol.

Many have made science an idol. They exalt science as the way in order to obtain truth - how people using the intellect that through scientific enquiry they obtain reality.

Such is idolatry. And by-passing how the Holy Spirit is to lead people to Reality.

The Holy Spirit is needed in order to obtain Truth about Earth's origin and history. Not intellect through science.

And below is the verse in the Bible that states such plain and clear. It is evidence of what many are experiencing. It is testable.

Those baptized by the Holy Spirit are led into truth by the dynamic teaching of the Holy Spirit within them.

 

[Heissonear]

How do you put this to the test, in a falsifiable and reliable way.

Please demonstrate.

Put you life on the line before Him.

 

[Heissonear]

If you want to find out about reality, you turn to reality to investigate it - using your intellect.

This goes back to the OP.

What you state is God is not needed, even in knowing the reality of Earth's origin and history. God can be by-passed.

Such by-passing the teaching of the Holy Spirit produces the train wreck of error we see around us.

 

[bhsmte]

Put you life on the line before Him.

Is that your falsifiable test???

 

[Heissonear]

From the OP:

Which should a person do foremost towards understanding Earth's origin and history: turn to God or to Science?

Which one of the above holds the Key that unlocks Reality?

Does mankind need to know God and His Ways first or can they by-pass such and through scientific enquiry understand the Reality of Earth's past?

If they by-pass God to know about Earth's history do they make geologic science an idol?

Does a person first need to learn of God's Ways before concluding what they learned from geologic science?

The posts so far by many point at by-passing God and His Spirit to obtain Reality through science and intellect. Such is idolitry and Reality of Earth's origin and history will not be obtained that way.

 

[Stormy]

Which should a person do foremost towards understanding Earth's origin and history: turn to God or to Science?

Which one of the above holds the Key that unlocks Reality?

Does mankind need to know God and His Ways first or can they by-pass such and through scientific enquiry understand the Reality of Earth's past?

If they by-pass God to know about Earth's history do they make geologic science an idol?

Does a person first need to learn of God's Ways before concluding what they learned from geologic science?

Does the Bible clearly present Scriptures of at least one of God's Ways of Creating? Scriptures plain to understand of at least one of His Creative Ways?

Does the Bible present that God has used Apparent-Embedded Age when Creating complex objects?

You may not like my answer and others will probably attack it also.
But.. IMO The Earth can be old.. Very very old. Much older than the people and animals that walk upon it. Genesis is the story of when Earth was made a habitat for mankind and all the animals that share this planet with us.

It is our beginning.. Not the earths beginning.

 

[Heissonear]

You may not like my answer and others will probably attack it also.
But.. IMO The Earth can be old.. Very very old. Much older than the people and animals that walk upon it. Genesis is the story of when Earth was made a habitat for mankind and all the animals that share this planet with us.

It is our beginning.. Not the earths beginning.

God is the God of Natural Science and Historical Geology. That means He is the Creator of such. It does not mean this was the methodology He used - evolution of materials and life forms over time.

What we have is a ~10,000 year old Earth to witness of His Creative Efforts. In what can be seen geologically we see Him only a few thousand years ago bring into existence.

There are reasons He did it this way.

Freewill is one huge reason. How would you like to make a Creation with Creators like man have a true freewill?

Another reason is who and what people turn to in search for reality.

In Genesis one of God's Ways to Create is when He Created Eve. After 24 hour of existenc(one Earth rotation) did Eve look 1 day old or did she show a maturity much older than one Earth revolution?

God has in His Scriptures many things He can reveal about finding Reality. The foremost is we must turn to Him. To find Reality of the past is if God permits, not by man thst pursueth by scientific enquiry.

 

[DogmaHunter]

What you state about applications of many sciences and evidences obtained by them I am not questioning.

Yet all of them would have to be wrong, for you to be right.

What I do present is that there are major gaps of major information missing.

Maybe it's just missing from your particular understanding, ever considered that?

Such missing information makes scientists use conjecture to conclude the Earth is billions of years old and not lass that ~10,000 years old.

No.
Old earth is a carefully measured fact, not a guess.

There are zero transition fossils out of billions of fossils unearthed.

This is simply not true.

This should tell you something

It tells me any of the three following things:
- you don't know what a transitional is
- you are just very ignorant about the fossil record
- you are deliberatly lying about it.

I'm a geologist

Myeah, I'm not buying it....

Second, there is no evidence of how life formed on Earth

How it originated is irrelevant when determining how long its been here (and what happened to it, once it was here).

The sciences themselfs show the impossibility of Earth processes and materials can produce complex molecules like DNA and RNA. An equivalent example would be that nature can through natural processes and materials create a car.

No, that's not a proper analogy at all. Not even by a long shot.

And after a car another type of vehicle, like a farm tractor.

Cars aren't living things that reproduce with modifcation and are in competition with peers for limited resources. Hence, cars do not evolve.

In my days I have seen many evolutionists try to claim evolution is a fact by obvious evidence. And I know academically their error.

lol!

I became open minded when I learned of such. That evolution requires faith. Stating evolution happened is a statement of faith.

And "faith" is a bad thing, I bet.
Always funny to see a guy who is a supported of what-can-only-be-called "last thursdayism", accuse scientific theories (of all things) of using "faith".

Hilarious.

 

[DogmaHunter]

OK, in major principle what I state by Apparent Embedded Age is a major part in Last Thursday-ism.

So be it.

The Scriptures show God uses Apparent-Mature age when Creating complex objects like Eve.

That is very evident in the Bible. Eve after 24 hour of existing did not look 1 day old, but showed maturity.

God could use Apparent-Mature Age when Creating this physical realm.

And you have no evidence to disprove it. It would be one of the Ways of God that people who have made science of Earth's origin and history become an idol.

Many have made science an idol. They exalt science as the way in order to obtain truth - how people using the intellect that through scientific enquiry they obtain reality.

Such is idolatry. And by-passing how the Holy Spirit is to lead people to Reality.

The Holy Spirit is needed in order to obtain Truth about Earth's origin and history. Not intellect through science.

And below is the verse in the Bible that states such plain and clear. It is evidence of what many are experiencing. It is testable.

View attachment 220129

View attachment 220130

Those baptized by the Holy Spirit are led into truth by the dynamic teaching of the Holy Spirit within them.

Preaching, is not an argument.

 

[bhsmte]

Preaching, is not an argument.

It provides comfort though, when well evidenced reality, is not so comforting.

 

[Phred]

Has mankind found any transitional fossils of the billions recovered?

Every fossil is a transitional fossil. What you want is something that cannot exist. A half wing for example. Why would that exist? It's your insistence upon something that would never evolve that leads us again and again to the "where are the transitional fossils?" nonsense.