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God choosing us has many meanings: Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

Discussion in 'Salvation (Soteriology)' started by testifier_uk, Dec 7, 2021.

  1. testifier_uk

    testifier_uk Member

    United Kingdom
    What does it mean to be chosen by God ?

    In Job 36 it is told that it is we ( humans) that choose iniquity ( ungodliness and not choosing godliness which is to choose God)

    Compare that to Hebrews 11, and we hear the testimony about Moses was that he chose to suffer affliction with the people of God ( choosing God) than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for the season of his life....

    Job 36:21 Take heed, regard not iniquity: for this hast thou chosen rather than affliction.

    Hebrews 11:25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;

    Ezekiel shows the same appeal of God, how it is Israel ( men) who choose death and to continue in the evil of their ways withpout turning from them.

    God says in Ezekiel 18, how Israel needs to cast all of their transgressions away from themselves, and it is making a new heart and a new spirit, to not die, O house of Israel..

    Ezekiel 18:31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

    Ezekiel 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

    Again two comparisons, and we read how it is Israel that chooses, but chooses the wrong thing, they choose the fast of glory in the sight of men.

    But the fast God had chosen was to free people from these evils, to do the mercy of God instead of the cruelty of the devils pride.

    Jesus spoke the very same to Israel face to face, they had chosen to sound trumpets before men to have glory of men, they disfigured their faces to appear to men, instead of the fast God had chosen to undo all heavy burdens..

    John 5:44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?

    Matthew 6:2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

    Matthew 6:16 Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

    Isaiah 58:5 Is it such a fast that I have chosen? a day for a man to afflict his soul? is it to bow down his head as a bulrush, and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him? wilt thou call this a fast, and an acceptable day to the Lord?

    Isaiah 58:6 Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?

    So we know God chooses, He has said the choices He makes, and what he chooses, God chooses us all in the furnace of affliction, to refine us for Him.

    It is confirmed yet again in Isaiah 66, God looks to the man who trembles at His word, who is of a poor and contrite spirit.

    For the wicked, it is clear, it is THEY WHO HAVE CHOSEN THEIR OWN WAY( of wickedness as it suits them best to ave glory of men and not the glory that comes from God only)...

    Isaiah 48:10 Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction.

    Isaiah 66:2 For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the Lord: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.
    3 He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.

    Again Jesus shows this very way to us, Jesus had many disciples following Him ( he had chosen them all)

    We see it is those disciples themselves who disagreed with Jesus, only because of the things they heard...

    Luke 7:11 And it came to pass the day after, that he went into a city called Nain; and many of his disciples went with him, and much people.

    John 6:60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?

    Jesus tries to reason with the disagreeing disciples, and for them to focus on the words that are Spirit and life, instead of their own understanding of the fleshly mind, because that is enmity against God, and the carnal mind is enmity against God, and God gives grace to overcome this, by them submitting themselves to God, resisting the devil and the devil fleeing from them, to draw near to God is God drawing near to us, cleaning our hands and purifying our hearts ( making us a new heart and spirit for why will we die?)


    John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

    Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

    James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
    5 Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?
    6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
    7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
    8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
    9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.
    10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

    John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

    Jesus knows who believes and who does not believe, but to the twelve they did not go away, knowing there was nowhere else to go, and we see again the choosing of Jesus, is included to choose devils too..

    John 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
    65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
    66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
    67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
    68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
    69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

    John 6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. testifier_uk

    testifier_uk Member

    United Kingdom
    Jesus came to earth on a search, seeking sheep. Nobody had searched or sought them out before.

    All before the Shepherd of course were thieves and robbers ( they had not searched or sought out the sheep)

    John 10:8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.

    Ezekiel 34:6 My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and upon every high hill: yea, my flock was scattered upon all the face of the earth, and none did search or seek after them.

    Ezekiel 34:11 For thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I, even I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out.

    Jesus then came to save those who were lost.

    The ones sure of themselves, are not lost, neither seek the Shepherd, nor does He seek them.

    But the ones gone astray ( feeling lost) are looking out for the Shepherd, and He is searching for them too. ( remember they are the poor and contrite/meek in life)

    Then those little ones repent immediately when they come to the Shepherd of the sheep..

    Matthew 18:11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.
    12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?
    13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.
    14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.

    Then we being the sheep of His hand and the people of His pasture, are to not harden our hearts, and to err in our heart by not knowing the ways of the Lord, or GHod swore we shall not enter into His rest...

    Psalm 95:7 For he is our God; and we are the people of his pasture, and the sheep of his hand. To day if ye will hear his voice,
    8 Harden not your heart, as in the provocation, and as in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
    9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my work.
    10 Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways:
    11 Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest.

    Hebrews continues for us to take heed there is not in any of us that evil heart of unbelief, in departing from God ( remember we draw near to God and He then draws near to us and we resist the devils pride, humbling ourselves to be lifted up by the Lord)

    We exhort one another so none of us are hardened through the deceitfulness of sin ( of the man of sin the devil)

    We are told, we be partakers of Christ ONLY IF WE HOLD STEDFAST UNTO THE END, o hear His voice by not hardening our hearts ( in pride)..

    Hebrews 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
    13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
    14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
    15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.

    So if we will HEAR HIS VOICE ?

    LET US THEREFORE LABOUR TO ENTER, OR WE WILL FALL AFTER THE SAME EXAMPLE OF UNBELIEF ( it seems the devil wills us to fall and not labour and to not hear)

    But all the sheep need to do is hear ( by not hardening their heart through that deceitfulness of the man of sin)...

    Hebrews 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
    8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
    9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
    10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
    11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

    John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
  3. testifier_uk

    testifier_uk Member

    United Kingdom
    A person could see God as choosing and rejecting, or we can understand better than that, how all are called together, but the ones who see themselves as wise, become fools, but the ones of faith do more justly ( believe more justly in God and ion the just Lord)

    Holding the truth in unrighteousness ( speaking unrighteousness of God) is what the ungodly do, and all have no excuse, because God has revealed all, to all, and we are to be thankful, and no longer vain in our imaginations.

    Then the wise cannot be called, they profess themselves to be wiser than God, the mighty wont heed the call, as the meek is what our Lord is, we also are weak in Him as Christ was crucified in weakness, so the mighty cant understand how to be weak, thast this makes any sense ( my strength is made perfect in weakness)

    All was done as told, so no person glorifies themselves in the presence of God..

    Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
    18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
    19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
    20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
    21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
    22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

    1 Corinthians 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
    27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
    28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
    29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

    So all are chosen, or all are called, but all are called to be chosen in Him in holiness, without blame to honour the name of God, as we are now accepted in the beloved, redemption through the blood of Christ, and made known to us ) to all) the mystery of His will, to gather all things together in Him to be all one..

    Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
    5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
    6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
    7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
    8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
    9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
    10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

    The choosing is us, to trust in Christ, then the Lord may give unto us the Spirit and revelation in the knowledge of Him...

    Ephesians 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
    12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
    13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
    14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
    15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,
    16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;
    17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
    18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

    All deceivableness of unrighteousness, through the devil is to stop that message of the truth of the Gospel, that to hear the words of righteousness we believe in righteousness, instead of being the unbelievers satan wants us to be by trusting in doing unrighteousness, because the CHOOSING IS TOLD, we are chosen to salvation through belief of the truth, which is sanctification of the spirit...

    2 Thessalonians 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
    11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
    12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
    13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
    14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
    15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

    The choosing this time is by Timothy, in the same way that all the passages of God show, that you recognize who is faithful, and that is who the choosing is about, anyone who is faithful, to endure hardness as as good soldier of Christ, because God's choosing is us to be soldiers, whomever is ready to endure is that..

    2 Timothy 2:2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.
    3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.
    4 No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.
    5 And if a man also strive for masteries, yet is he not crowned, except he strive lawfully.

    Now the poor of the flock wait for the Lord, but the rich don't wait, they are too busy gathering their riches and pleasures, but the ones who are poor ( in spirit) wait for God and are full of faith by this ( having faith in God and not in themselves)..

    James 2:5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?

    Zechariah 11:11 And it was broken in that day: and so the poor of the flock that waited upon me knew that it was the word of the Lord.
    12 And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver.

    Believing and we shall not be ashamed ( we need to be ashamed now of doing what hurts others and is against God)

    The disobedient don't care, they will devise wicked imaginations even against God ( always speaking vain words and lying in wait to deceive the simple)

    The chosen generation do better, they want to be called out of darkness ( works) unto light..

    1 Peter 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
    7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
    8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
    9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

    They with the Lamb are chosen, to be faithful, hearing the faithful word is being chosen, and is the choice, instead of choosing to hear words of vanity..

    Titus 1:9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

    Revelation 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
  4. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

    Good question. But most people have been influenced by Calvinism and its 5 points, known as TULIP.

    The "U" stands for unconditional election. And most think or assume that election is to salvation. However, there are no verses that link election to salvation. In every verse on salvation or receiving eternal life, the link is to faith or believing. So there IS a condition for salvation, which is faith in Christ. So salvation CANNOT BE in view in election.

    Election is to service. In every verse that reveals the purpose of election, it is to service.

    Here are some samples of such verses:

    Election is to service, not salvation.
    I Jesus Christ is The Chosen One:

    Matt 12:18 - “Here is my servant whom I have chosen, the one I love, in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him, and he will proclaim justice to the nations.

    Mark 10:45 - For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and give His life a ransom for many (the masses).

    1 Pet 2:6 - For in Scripture it says: “See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame.”

    Isa 42:1 - “Here is my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen one in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him, and he will bring justice to the nations.

    Isa 43:10 - “You are My witnesses”, declares the Lord, “and My servant, whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe Me and understand that I am He. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after Me.”

    Luke 9:35 - A voice came from the cloud, saying, “This is my Son, whom I have chosen; listen to him.”

    Luke 23:35 - The people stood watching, and the rulers even sneered at him. They said, “He saved others; let him save himself if he is God’s Messiah, the Chosen One.”

    II The original 12 apostles were chosen/appointed for service:

    Mark 3:14 - He appointed twelve that they might be with him and that he might send them out to preach

    John 6:70 - Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!”

    Acts 1:2 - until the day He was taken up to heaven, after giving instructions through the Holy Spirit to the apostles He had chosen.

    III Paul was elected to service:

    Acts 9:15 - But the Lord said to Ananias, “Go! This man is my chosen instrument to proclaim my name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel.

    Acts 20:24 - However, I consider my life worth nothing to me, if only I may finish the race and complete the task the Lord Jesus has given me - the task of testifying to the gospel of God’s grace.

    Acts 22:10 - "'What shall I do, Lord?' I asked. "'Get up,' the Lord said, 'and go into Damascus. There you will be told all that you have been assigned to do.’

    Acts 22:14, 15 - 14 “Then he said: ‘The God of our ancestors has chosen you to know his will and to see the Righteous One and to hear words from his mouth. 15 You will be his witness to all people of what you have seen and heard.

    IV Angels were elected to service:

    1 Tim 5:21 - I charge you, in the sight of God and Christ Jesus and the elect angels, to keep these instructions without partiality, and to do nothing out of favoritism.

    Heb 1:7 - In speaking of the angels he says, “He makes his angels spirits, and his servants flames of fire.”

    Heb 1:14 - Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?

    Rev 19:10 - At this I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “Don’t do that! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers and sisters who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For it is the Spirit of prophecy who bears testimony to Jesus.”

    V Church Age believers were elected to service:

    Eph 1:4 - for He chose (elected) us (believers) in Him, before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in His sight

    1 Peter 2:9 - But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His wonderful light.

    There are 7 different examples of election, and none are for salvation:

    Examples of Election
    1. Election of Christ: Isa 42:1 "Behold, My Servant, whom I uphold; My chosen one in whom My soul delights. I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the nations.
    Matt 12:18 "Behold, My Servant whom I have chosen; My Beloved in whom My soul is well-pleased; I will put My Spirit upon Him, And He shall proclaim justice to the Gentiles.
    Luke 9:35 And a voice came out of the cloud, saying, "This is My Son, My Chosen One; listen to Him!"
    Luke 23:35 And the people stood by, looking on. And even the rulers were sneering at Him, saying, "He saved others; let Him save Himself if this is the Christ of God, His Chosen One.
    1 Peter 2:6 For this is contained in Scripture: "Behold I lay in Zion a choice stone, a precious corner stone, And he who believes in Him shall not be disappointed."

    2. Election of Israel: Amos 3:2 "You only have I chosen among all the families of the earth; Therefore, I will punish you for all your iniquities."
    Deut 7:6 "For you are a holy people to the LORD your God; the LORD your God has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.
    Luke 11:54 “He has helped his servant Israel, remembering to be merciful”

    3. Election of Angels: 1 Tim 5:21 I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of His chosen angels, to maintain these principles without bias, doing nothing in a spirit of partiality.

    4. Election of the Church or body of Christ: Eph 1:4a just as He chose us (believers) in Him… v.19 defines “us” as “those who believe”. 1 Pet 2:9 - But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nations people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His wonderful light.

    5. Other elections:
    Paul: Acts 9:15 But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen instrument of Mine, to bear My name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel;
    1 Tim 1:12 I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has given me strength, that he considered me trustworthy, appointing me to his service.
    Apostles: John 6:70 Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!” {Judas was chosen to betray the Lord}
    John 15:16 "You did not choose Me, but I chose you , and appointed you, that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask of the Father in My name, He may give to you.
    1 Cor 1:27-28 27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are,
    Acts 10:41 - He was not seen by all the people, but by witnesses whom God had already chosen—by us who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead.
  5. Christian7777777

    Christian7777777 Active Member

    United Kingdom

    The purpose of election, is to be made equal unto the angels, for man ( believers in Christ) to hear the voice of the Lord and to do His commandments..

    Luke 20:36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

    Psalm 103:20 Bless the Lord, ye his angels, that excel in strength, that do his commandments, hearkening unto the voice of his word.

    In Revelation 19:10, and Revelation 22:8-9, John fell at the feet of the angel, who told John that he was of his brothers that have the testimony of Jesus and to not fall at his feet, but to worship God.

    Revelation 1:17 shows whose feet to fall, and who who alone to worship, it is Christ.

    If you want to know who the angel is, the book of Acts reveals, how Cornelius fell down the same at Peters feet, who answered the same way as in Revelations, who said to stand up ) to do it not) as he himself is also a man.

    Peter confirms in 1 Peter 5, how he is about to decease and how he then becomes a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed ( partaker in Revelations)

    Acts 10:25 And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him.
    26 But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man.

    1 Peter 5:1 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:

    Revelation 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

    Revelation 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

    Revelation 22:8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
    9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.
  6. Christian7777777

    Christian7777777 Active Member

    United Kingdom
    A more specific question would be, what does it mean to be chosen by God ( not a description such as a dictionary one of the word chosen) but God being God, what godliness is involved ?

    Chosen and PREDESTINED, for holiness, which is in love, the love of Christ beyond words. ( men's words save nobody, only the living word saves in true deeds of love)

    Then we read again the choosing TO SALVATION, ( predestination and election as angels) through sanctification of the Spirit, which is belief of the truth..

    Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
    5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

    2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
  7. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

    Go back and read what I wrote about election of angels. They are elected for service.

    If you disagree, please quote verses that say what you claim.

    Yes, this would be for service.

    This isn't an election.

    I really don't know what your point is from all the verses you quoted. I didn't see anything about being "chosen" or "elected".
  8. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

    It means that God has a job for you to do. Even Judas was chosen. John 6;70,71


    Where do we read that?

    Oh, I see. Being very familiar with the Bible, I see you are referring to 2 Thess 2:13.

    The only problem is, it isn't about election.

    "But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers and sisters loved by the Lord, because God chose you as firstfruits to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth."

    First, the word "chose" isn't the word used for "election" elsewhere. It is a totally different word. The usual word for "choose" or "elect" is eklegomai, a verb. The word here is haireomai. So election is not in view.

    Second, we must be careful to read the verse carefully. Notice the bolded words. This verse is about the choice of God in HOW to be saved, by the phrase "to be saved through...".

    Third, what follows that phrase is the specific WAY one is saved, which is "the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth".

    So, that is what God chose. The METHOD of how to be saved.

    This verse does NOT say that God unconditionally chooses who will be saved.

    In fact, the METHOD of how to be saved is clearly stated: through faith in the truth. That is a condition.

    Neither does this verse say what you seem to think. The word "us" is defined clearly in v.19 as "us who believe". So one could simply replace "us" with "believers".

    So, we have, "God has chosen (elected) believers..."

    Next question is; for what? That is answered in the phrase "that we should be (this is a purpose clause) holy and blameless.

    To be holy and blameless is a service to God. So Eph 1:4 is a verse that teaches election is to service.
  9. Christian7777777

    Christian7777777 Active Member

    United Kingdom
    All scripture is for election, for being saved, for salvation..

    2 Timothy 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
    16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
    17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
  10. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

    Please quote any verse that actually shows that election is for or to salvation.

    OK, saved through faith. Not election.

    Not a thing about election here.

    Examples that prove election is to service:

    1 Cor 1-
    27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.
    28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are,

    None of this is for salvation. All of this is for service.

    1 Peter 1-
    1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To God’s elect, exiles scattered throughout the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia,
    2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance.

    Red words tell us the method of being chosen by God: His foreknowledge.
    Blue words tell us the reason for being chosen: service.
  11. Christian7777777

    Christian7777777 Active Member

    United Kingdom

    Red words quoted say, chosen ( elected) through the foreknowledge of God ( the sanctification of the Spirit) and not forgetting the sprinkling of the blood of Christ.

    Obedience is faith ( in the blood of Christ) and is the commandment of the everlasting God ( His commandment is life which is saved to election)

    All that the Son speaks is life, and all scripture does make us wise to salvation to be perfect ( election)

    Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

    Romans 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

    John 12:50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

    Do you not know yet that letting your words be few is to avoid the wrath of God as the many and quick words of man is not the righteousness of God ( not truth but a lie and speaking for vanity sake/strife and wrath)

    James 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
    19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
    20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
    21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
  12. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

    Do you understand that to be chosen "through the foreknowledge of God" means the Calvinistic doctrine of "unconditional election" cannot be true? This verse says that God's choice is based on His foreknowledge.

    No, obedience demonstrates one's faith. James 2:18

    Well, this is certainly backward of the Calvinistic doctrine.

    Do you have any verses that clearly teach that salvation is for election?

    Please explain what you think "perfect" means in your statement. Thanks.

    Could you please provide some perspective or explanation when you quote verses? Just quoting verses isn't helpful since so many people "read" the same verses completely differently.

    OOOKKK. Your point here?

    Again, when you quote verses, you need to make a point.

    Too many people will take the very same verses and think they mean something different than others think.

    So I won't comment on any verse if you don't include some explanation or point to go along with the verse(s).