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umn yes? But I think I answered it like this...So Hebrews 4 is talking about Sunday?
Hebrews 4New International Version (NIV)
A Sabbath-Rest for the People of God
4 Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it. 2 For we also have had the good news proclaimed to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because they did not share the faith of those who obeyed.[a] 3 Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said,
“So I declared on oath in my anger,
‘They shall never enter my rest.’”
And yet his works have been finished since the creation of the world. 4 For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: “On the seventh day God rested from all his works.”[c] 5 And again in the passage above he says, “They shall never enter my rest.”
6 Therefore since it still remains for some to enter that rest, and since those who formerly had the good news proclaimed to them did not go in because of their disobedience, 7 God again set a certain day, calling it “Today.” This he did when a long time later he spoke through David, as in the passage already quoted:
“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts.”[d]
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10 for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works,[e] just as God did from his. 11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.
I think that in offering Himself as our rest Jesus has fulfilled the Sabbath,
Colosians 2: Alive in Christ
…15And having disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross. 16Therefore let no one judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a festival, a New Moon,or a Sabbath. 17These are a shadow of the things to come, but the body that casts it belongs to Christ.…
As one who does not go to church Saturday or Sunday but rather am in His Word as He leads.
I feel that these scriptures in the first two posts of the OP where given to me recently. I firmly believe now that God did change the days to honor the firstfruit of the new creation over the old creation's celebration..
This is the new sabbath and there is another to come. Was, is and is to come
How about this, using Scripture, you show us when Christians should get together for worship.
If you can find even one example of Scripture commanding Christians to gather on the Sabbath for weekly worship, then you'll have--at the very least--the very beginnings of something resembling an argument.
-CryptoLutheran
Then place it on a backburner.. it may come to you if the Holy Spirit so chooses. The problem with denominational teachings is that they make it very hard to see other aspects.I don't understand how Hebrews is talking about Sunday, or any day of the week whatsoever. I read your whole OP but I still don't get what you are saying.
Then place it on a backburner.. it may come to you if the Holy Spirit so chooses. The problem with denominational teachings is that they make it very hard to see other aspects.
You wont find anything commanding Christians to do anything back then, because they were Hebrews, Jews, and Gentile converts to Judaism. The word Christian was a term the pagans came up with to make fun of followers of Jesus who went by the his real name of Yahusha/Yeshua back then, so its not like they say....hey I want to follow Jesus Christ, so ill call my self a Christian, because that wasnt his name back then, so you will not find any commands specifically to Christians, because that would be adding to the word of God. There was no NT back then so they were all following what the had at the time, the OT.How about this, using Scripture, you show us when Christians should get together for worship.
If you can find even one example of Scripture commanding Christians to gather on the Sabbath for weekly worship, then you'll have--at the very least--the very beginnings of something resembling an argument.
-CryptoLutheran
Just what the title says, I don't care who debates it, just counter debate if that's the case.Please, just give me the gist of it. Make it simple and direct. I promise not to debate it. I just want to see what you're saying exactly.
They were given very specific commands in Hebrews not to turn back to Judaism. While that's after Judaism fell and long after the dispersion it was still very specifically commanded in Hebrews 6You wont find anything commanding Christians to do anything back then, because they were Hebrews, Jews, and Gentile converts to Judaism. The word Christian was a term the pagans came up with to make fun of followers of Jesus who went by the his real name of Yahusha/Yeshua back then, so its not like they say....hey I want to follow Jesus Christ, so ill call my self a Christian, because that wasnt his name back then, so you will not find any commands specifically to Christians, because that would be adding to the word of God. There was no NT back then so they were all following what the had at the time, the OT.
There is no such thing as Christians commands or Jew commands, the bible is quite clear its one set of commands for God's people in the New Covenant.
The title isn't accurate. Not Biblically accurate, nor historically,Just what the title says, I don't care who debates it, just counter debate if that's the case.
That is what I wish forThey met every day. They also shared everything and had all things in common. That would be the better way.
I am old, and once was young, andThat is what I wish for
Interesting fact you may not know about Orthodox Christianity. We have Great Vespers for Sunday on Saturday nights at sundown. Saturday night counts as Sunday in the oldest Christian traditions and that is considered part of the first day of the week.In Acts 20, it is important to keep in mind that for Jews the day started at sundown, so their first day of the week would start on what we would refer to as Saturday evening. Furthermore, the word that is translated as the "first day of the week" more specifically refers to the first interval between two Sabbaths, or to the interval at sundown between Saturday and Sunday. So they met in the evening for a Havdalah service at the closing of the Sabbath, Paul spoke from evening until midnight rather from morning until midnight, and then he left to travel on Sunday morning, so this can not be used to show the starting of a tradition to meet on Sunday mornings.
Just what the title says, I don't care who debates it, just counter debate if that's the case.
Interesting fact you may not know about Orthodox Christianity. We have Great Vespers for Sunday on Saturday nights at sundown. Saturday night counts as Sunday in the oldest Christian traditions and that is considered part of the first day of the week.
Like,... totally! lolRomans 15:18-19 For I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me to bring the Gentiles to obedience—by word and deed, 19 by the power of signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God—so that from Jerusalem and all the way around to Illyricum I have fulfilled the ministry of the gospel of Christ;
In these verses, fulfilling the gospel does not refer to doing away with it or to keeping it perfectly, but rather it refers to fully teaching obedience to it. So we should likewise understand Messiah's statement in Matthew 5:17 that he came not to abolish the law, but to fulfill it as fully teaching obedience to it, which is precisely what he then proceeded to do in the rest of the chapter. Furthermore, Galatians 5:14 says that loving your neighbor fulfills the entire law, so it is something that anyone since Moses who has loved their neighbor has done, and not something unique to Messiah. Messiah summarized the law as being about how to love God and how to love your neighbor (Matthew 22:36-40), so love fulfills the entire law because it demonstrating a full understanding of what the law is about.
If you take Colossians 2:16 by itself, then it is ambiguous as whether it is saying not to let anyone judge them for keeping God's holy days or for not keeping them. However, if we look at the views of the people judging them in Colossians 2:8 and Colossians 2:20-23, we will see that they were teaching human precepts, self-made religion, asceticism, and severity to the body, not obedience to God's holy, righteous, and good law. Furthermore, if we look at the broader theme in the Bible that we must obey God rather than man, then it is clear that Colossians were being judge for obeying God's commands as they had been instructed and Paul was encouraging them not to let any man keep them from obeying God.
2 Peter 3:15-17 And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, 16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. 17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability.
This is saying that Paul is difficult to understand, but those who are ignorant and unstable twist his words and fall into the error of lawlessness. In other words, if you interpret Paul as being against anyone obeying God's law to keep the Sabbath, then you have misunderstood him.
I would love to live in a community where we are all one big church. If only it was viable and not likely to be a cult with twisted scripture.Amen brother. Isnt that more lovely than this sunday worship thing?
O boy- we do treat every day like the Lord's day- however- we specifically meet together (worship and communion)- as per scripture- on the first day of the week- also as per scripture- in honor of the Resurrection of Christ- which occurred on a Sunday. Thanks.O boy. Liberty is better. Treat every day like its the Lords day and you can never go wrong.
Hebrews 7 is a good guide to the principle of not being under the law any more for the New Testament.Faith not religion. Like the difference between Jesus and the Pharisees?
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