God cannot know the true future?

[Cray]

Because if God did it would mean that God would have known we would choose too sin originally and not have created us.

If God also knew the true future the would be no free will am i correct?

 

[Bible2]

"...I am God, and there is none like me, Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure"

-- Isaiah 46:9-10

 

[FreeinChrist]

Because if God did it would mean that God would have known we would choose too sin originally and not have created us.

If God also knew the true future the would be no free will am i correct?

I don't believe so. I believe God knows all and knows the end and is NOT confined by time (as he is outside of time).
however, in regards to free will - we DO have to believe to be saved.

I have noted that some are trying to align Arminianism with Open theism lately and I sure hope it is not being done for the purpose of getting Arminianism removed from the Christian only forums, or for the purpose of finding another way to declare Arminianism a heresy. (And no -I am not anArminian or a Calvinist.)

 

[jbarcher]

Because if God did it would mean that God would have known we would choose too sin originally and not have created us.

If God also knew the true future the would be no free will am i correct?

Ahh, this is such a fun topic...(I'm into philosophy.)

Just one or two ideas...I don't agree that foreknowledge equates to determinism, as knowledge does not seem to have any reality-changing power, actions do. However, God may be "timeless" in the sense that there is no past/present/future for Him as we understand it, so He may see the whole span of time in "one instant".

Second, there is one observation to make coming from the viewpoint that God knew we would fall. We simply cannot get to thinking that there were malicious or cruel motives behind creating. Search for "is God schzoid or cruel?" on christian-thinktank.com if this interests you.

 

[Matthan]

Cray, you are mixing up your thought process just a tad. God is truly Omniscient, or having infinite understanding (all knowing), just as He is Omnipresent (always present everywhere) and Omnipotent (all powerful). Yes, He already knows the fates of each and every one of us, and it will be so. He caused our names to be written in the Book of Life, or not.

However, He has also allowed each of us the blessing (or curse) of our own free will. It is us who will determine if we end up in Heaven, or not. God may know where we are going to spend eternity, but He does not cause us to go there. He does not respect any person. We are far too unrighteous in our sin for that.

Now, do not get me wrong. Man can do absolutely nothing to warrant eternal salvation by ourselves. That is only a free gift of God, based on our faith in Jesus as the Son of God, or our lack of faith in the same. But, we do have the free will ability to believe in Jesus as God's annointed, or not. We also have the free will to follow a life of greed, gaining lots of wealth by whatever means. We have the free will to think or act in adultery. Or desiring porn. Or any number of other things that do not bring Glory to God.

What I guess I am trying to say is that we have the free-will ability to either follow God, or seek out sins of the flesh. We can feel good here in this life, but what would that avail us in terms of tens of thousands of years living in torment? Look at the story found in Luke 16:19-31, and you may better understand what it is I am trying to say with this post.

Matthan <><

 

[Celticflower]

I'm a bit of a sci-fi buff, so the idea of multiple timelines may fit here. God knows all the possible outcomes of our decisions, but he does not influence those decisions. So God does know the future--in all its various possible permutations.


Celtie

 

[Dad Ernie]

Because if God did it would mean that God would have known we would choose too sin originally and not have created us.

If God also knew the true future the would be no free will am i correct?

Aaahhh, youth, oh to be so young and live in uneducated bliss. Did you know:

Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

1 Peter 1:19-20 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

You see, even BEFORE the foundation of this world, God KNEW the ENDING of all that He created, AND everything IN-BETWEEN. He had already made preparations for "Salvation through Christ, His Only Begotten Son", BEFORE Adam even drew his first breath.

Knowing something DOES NOT mean that God is the CAUSE of it. If you were a parent, you might KNOW that your child would eventually sin, and you would be powerless to prevent it, but you CAN prepare IN ADVANCE for what you WILL DO when it DOES happen. This is exactly what God did.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

 

[Bible2]

"Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith..."

-- Hebrews 12:2

 

[visionary]

God knows the beginning from the end and has provided for us, the Words of His Wisdom to live, He has lived for eternity and wishes for us to dwell with Him. His Way, His Truth, And His Life is the Only Way that works, God knows, He lives it.

 

[israelthebride]

YHSHWH has ONE PLAN from Genesis to Revelation.
We need to submit to HIS PLAN or it goes on without us.

We are predestined: We are CREATED to be with HIM FOREVER.
We have free will: Many choose not to go to HIM.

Many are CALLED, a few choose not to to be CALLED.

All BELIEVERS/SUBMITTERS are in HIS PLAN.
In sin,
if one chooses to confess one's sin,
YHSHWH is FAITHFUL to FORGIVE one's sin
and will draw that one into HIS PLAN.

We have a GREAT GOD.
YHSHWH! YHSHWH! YHSHWH!

LOVE, RICOEL