God became man so that man could become God

[hedrick]

Did Calvin and Calvinists after him see sanctification as a path toward spiritual oneness with God?

That would depend upon what you mean by spiritual oneness. Remember that for Calvin, the basis for both justification and sanctification is what he calls the 'mystical union" with Christ. But there are ideas of oneness that would acceptable and those that wouldn't. He also talks about the "exchange" in which he takes our sins and we take his righteousness. This exchange is not just a legal fiction; it's based on the union with Christ.

It's debatable whether the fire of purgatory is a literal fire, yet the theme of purification after death is common in the early church fathers, who based it on their reading of Scripture.

As far as I know, Protestants generally believe that we will be purified after death. There's no detailed teaching on how, and most people seem to assume that it happens at once. Even the Catholics now classify some of the previous ideas as speculation.

 

[Yoder777]

As far as I know, Protestants generally believe that we will be purified after death. There's no detailed teaching on how, and most people seem to assume that it happens at once. Even the Catholics now classify some of the previous ideas as speculation.

Does it happen at once or is it a gradual process, much like the gradual process of the self moving toward God in this life?

 

[Aibrean]

Sanctification is not an instant process. Lutherans believe that we can't be perfect in this life. Sanctification is a journey and when we are raised incorruptible it will be at an end.

 

[Yoder777]

Sanctification is not an instant process. Lutherans believe that we can't be perfect in this life. Sanctification is a journey and when we are raised incorruptible it will be at an end.

What makes a person so certain that once you die, you are instantly perfected? Why can't there be spiritual progress in the afterlife?

 

[Aibrean]

Sin can't exist with God. If there is a spiritual progress it will be void of sin so it's not, and can't be called, sanctification.

 

[Yoder777]

Sin can't exist with God.

All the more reason why, after death, we'd need to be purified of our sins before entering heaven.

 

[Aibrean]

Why? Jesus took our sins to the cross. We don't need to be "punished" for something that has been forgiven. Jesus took it away.

"For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more."

 

[Rick Otto]

I need a reason for believing that God became man other than that he'd just suffer and die and a reason for following his teachings other than fear of judgment. What I want more than anything in life is to have intimate friendship with Jesus.

 

[Rick Otto]

What makes a person so certain that once you die, you are instantly perfected? Why can't there be spiritual progress in the afterlife?

There can be but it has to be qualitatively different or it's just more of the same thing.
After you die, an instant means something else.
I tend to picture the following happening reltively quickly so that new progress in eternity can be started.

1Cor3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire

 

[nephilimiyr]

Yoder777, stop reading the teachings of man, and just open up your bible from page 1 and start reading. Pray constantly for understanding, and He will give it to you.

You do not need to read other people's books to find God, you need to read His book, the one that He wrote, as that's the ONLY one that will show you the truth and answer all of your questions.

That's right, you said it perfectly, and that's why when I read Paul saying this:
Ephesians 4:20-24, You, however, did not come to know Christ that way. Surely you heard of him and were taught in him in accordance with the truth that is in Jesus. You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by it's deceitful desires; to be made new in the attitude of your minds; and to put on the new self; created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.

With that I think Yoder777 is pretty much on target in the OP.

 

[Yoder777]

That's right, you said it perfectly, and that's why when I read Paul saying this:
Ephesians 4:20-24, You, however, did not come to know Christ that way. Surely you heard of him and were taught in him in accordance with the truth that is in Jesus. You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by it's deceitful desires; to be made new in the attitude of your minds; and to put on the new self; created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.

With that I think Yoder777 is pretty much on target in the OP.

Thanks for posting this. There are numerous Scriptural passages that support the doctrine of theosis, or what is more commonly known in Protestantism as sanctification. I think it makes many Protestants uncomfortable that we could become partakers in the divine nature, yet it's taken directly from Scripture.

This is a great summary of the reason for Jesus' death and resurrection:

2 Corinthians 5
14 For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died. 15 And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.

Theosis is the path of dying and rising in Christ, dying to the old self to live as a new self. This is enabled by Christ's incarnation, death, and resurrection.

 

[Yoder777]

While evangelicalism often sees the sole purpose of the incarnation as Jesus' death, and the resurrection as solely the vindication of his sacrifice, theosis sees the path taken by Christ as enabling a path within us. Christ's incarnation, crucifixion and resurrection enable our transformation.


The Wisdom Jesus: Transforming Heart and Mind-A New Perspective on Christ
By Cynthia Bourgeault
http://books.google.com/books?id=bJ...&resnum=4&ved=0CDkQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

[HereIStand]

How would you define panentheism?

Formally, according to this book it would be defined as "the belief that God is all and all is God." If I live by this though than what is my spiritual reference point? I can find God within nature or myself and ignore God's revelation in Scripture. Nor do I need the sacraments or church.

 

[Johnnz]

Much of evangelical doctrine has been too much sin-salvation focused. Happily, many are revising their understanding of the extent of the NT message. A rediscovery of Trinitarian teaching is one example.

The sin/salvation paradigm was modelled on the law court, probably due to some great figures of past ages (Aquinas, Luther, Calvin, Finney, Edwards for example) having legal academic backgrounds. Trinitarian teaching reframes the underlying framework to one rooted within relationships, and this, together with understanding the aspect of recreation of our world rather than annihilation gives more meaning to everyday life.

John
NZ

 

[Lisa*Lisa]

I'm not kidding when I say that I think alot of people just like to see themselves type out big words and all kinds of theologies on here, and they are just concerned with being "more right" then the other guy. Jesus doesn't care people! Don't you get it yet?????? He only cares about what's in your heart!!!!!!!

Being a Christian is having a relationship with Jesus. It's really that simple. It consists of talking with Him on a regular basis, obeying His commandments, studying His word, loving Him before yourself, and trusting Him completely.

Nothing else is needed. It's not rocket science.......it's not a secret or a mystery. It's straightforward, honest and so simple a child could understand it.

It's not something that you talk about, it's something that you do! If you're spending your life thinking about it, talking about it, debating about it, then you might be missing the most important thing, the only thing that matters, JUST DO IT!

 

[Yoder777]

Formally, according to this book it would be defined as "the belief that God is all and all is God." If I live by this though than what is my spiritual reference point? I can find God within nature or myself and ignore God's revelation in Scripture. Nor do I need the sacraments or church.

No, that's pantheism. Panentheism is the belief that God is in all and all is in God. As Paul said, God is the one in whom we live and move and have our being.

 

[Yoder777]

I've forgotten to mention the importance of the ascension to our spiritual renewal:

And with Christ, man's nature ascends also.

"We who seemed unworthy of the earth, are now raised to heaven," says St John Chrysostom. "We who were unworthy of earthly dominion have been raised to the Kingdom on high, have ascended higher than heaven, have came to occupy the King's throne, and the same nature from which the angels guarded Paradise, stopped not until it ascended to the throne of the Lord." By His Ascension the Lord not only opened to man the entrance to heaven, not only appeared before the face of God on our behalf and for our sake, but likewise "transferred man" to the high places. "He honored them He loved by putting them close to the Father." God quickened and raised us together with Christ, as St Paul says, "and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus" (Ephes. 2:6). Heaven received the inhabitants of the earth. "The First fruits of them that slept" sits now on high, and in Him all creation is summed up and bound together. "The earth rejoices in mystery, and the heavens are filled with joy."
OCA - Feasts and Saints

 

[HereIStand]

Much of evangelical doctrine has been too much sin-salvation focused. Happily, many are revising their understanding of the extent of the NT message. A rediscovery of Trinitarian teaching is one example.

The sin/salvation paradigm was modelled on the law court, probably due to some great figures of past ages (Aquinas, Luther, Calvin, Finney, Edwards for example) having legal academic backgrounds. Trinitarian teaching reframes the underlying framework to one rooted within relationships, and this, together with understanding the aspect of recreation of our world rather than annihilation gives more meaning to everyday life.

John
NZ

Not sure about the other church history figures mentioned, but Edwards (as I recall from George Marsden's biography) while solidly believing in original sin was also post-millennial in his eschatology, and would likely have had a different outlook than the one described.

 

[HereIStand]

No, that's pantheism. Panentheism is the belief that God is in all and all is in God. As Paul said, God is the one in whom we live and move and have our being.

Sorry about that. I'm not familiar with panentheism. Obviously.

 

[nephilimiyr]

I'm not kidding when I say that I think alot of people just like to see themselves type out big words and all kinds of theologies on here, and they are just concerned with being "more right" then the other guy. Jesus doesn't care people! Don't you get it yet?????? He only cares about what's in your heart!!!!!!!

Being a Christian is having a relationship with Jesus. It's really that simple. It consists of talking with Him on a regular basis, obeying His commandments, studying His word, loving Him before yourself, and trusting Him completely.

Nothing else is needed. It's not rocket science.......it's not a secret or a mystery. It's straightforward, honest and so simple a child could understand it.

It's not something that you talk about, it's something that you do! If you're spending your life thinking about it, talking about it, debating about it, then you might be missing the most important thing, the only thing that matters, JUST DO IT!

Again, I agree with what you say here and think you have said it well. I quoted that scripture for you to show you that what Yoder777 was talking about in the OP is not just a theology of man but is something that the apostle Paul taught. It's important to understand this because once you realise that your new self that God created in you is just as righteous and holy as Christ is it will end most or all of the guilt and condemnation you place on yourself, or that others place upon you, because of your sins and your past.