God appears to Abraham at Mamre; (GEN 18:1-22:24)

[CherubRam]

John 5:41
“I do not accept (glorification / praise / worship / honor) from human beings,...

Yahwah accepts worship and Yahshua does not.

What was unique about the faith of Abraham is that his God was not a trinity. In those days there were many man made gods who were trinities.

 

[Heber Book List]

Years ago Trinitarians murdered Non-trinitarians. They promoted a Sunday Sabbath, they claimed Christ was hung on a cross and not a stake, that there is a Hell, the Pope is God on earth; and other such things.

It is plain to see what side you are on.

I am talking about your integrity and the overall rules on the site. Are you not supposed to agree with the basic tenets of the Christian Forums (sic) creed to post here? Are you supposed to not argue against the Trinity, if you do post on these fora?

FYI of the things you post above I do not agree with the 1st, the 2nd is immaterial - it is the purpose and outcome that is important, the Tanach supports the 3rd and the 4th is heresy!

 

[CherubRam]

I am talking about your integrity and the overall rules on the site. Are you not supposed to agree with the basic tenets of the Christian Forums (sic) creed to post here? Are you not supposed to argue against the Trinity, if you do post on these fora?

FYI of the things you post above I do not agree with the 1st, the 2nd is immaterial - it is the purpose and outcome that is important, the Tanach supports the 3rd and the 4th is heresy!

*Congregational Rules: Do not teach or debate in any Congregational Forum unless you are truly a member and share its core beliefs and teachings. Questions and fellowship are allowed, proselytizing is not.

Trinitarianism is not a core belief in Messianic Judaism. About two thirds are Trinitarian, and that is because most came from mainstream Christianity.

I far as I know, I am allowed to say what is written in scriptures.

 

[Heber Book List]

*Congregational Rules: Do not teach or debate in any Congregational Forum unless you are truly a member and share its core beliefs and teachings. Questions and fellowship are allowed, proselytizing is not.

Trinitarianism is not a core belief in Messianic Judaism. About two thirds are Trinitarian, and that is because most came from mainstream Christianity.

I far as I know, I am allowed to say what is written in scriptures.

The SOP says the following - the key bit I have shown in red. I think the protocol is that you may not believe it, but you must not post against / teach against the Trinity. Hence why I have raised the issue.
:
Non-negotiable points:

• No anti-missionary/counter-missionary posts or teachings against the New Covenant books or against Yeshua as Messiah
• No replacement theology. No posts teaching or debating that the Church/Christians have replaced Israel or the Jewish people.
  
• No anti-Torah theology. i.e. No posts accusing or debating that Messianic Jews or Gentiles are under the law, re-erecting the wall of partition, Torah has been made invalid for today, or Messianic Jews or Gentiles should not keep the commandments in Torah that apply to them. It's not permitted to tell members to keep the Universal (Noachide) laws or not to keep Shabbat.

 

[CherubRam]

The SOP says the following - the key bit I have shown in red. I think the protocol is that you may not believe it, but you must not post against / teach against the Trinity. Hence why I have raised the issue.
:
Non-negotiable points:

• No anti-missionary/counter-missionary posts or teachings against the New Covenant books or against Yeshua as Messiah
• No replacement theology. No posts teaching or debating that the Church/Christians have replaced Israel or the Jewish people.
  
• No anti-Torah theology. i.e. No posts accusing or debating that Messianic Jews or Gentiles are under the law, re-erecting the wall of partition, Torah has been made invalid for today, or Messianic Jews or Gentiles should not keep the commandments in Torah that apply to them. It's not permitted to tell members to keep the Universal (Noachide) laws or not to keep Shabbat.

I suspect that there is something wrong with you. I have always said that Yahshua is the Messiah.

 

[Heber Book List]

I suspect that there is something wrong with you. I have always said that Yahshua is the Messiah.

You have been teaching today that he is just one of many gods and clearly does not warrant a capital 'G'. You obviously do not believe John's witness nor Paul's letter to the Philippians - both passages relate to his deity.

Your posted arguments do not support your professed view that he is Messiah in the sense that the Bible uses that term. There is but one G_d, not multiples as you suggest, whether you align yourself to Judaism or Christianity; that one G_d is he that is referred to in both John and Philippians.

 

[CherubRam]

You have been teaching today that he is just one of many gods and clearly does not warrant a capital 'G'. You obviously do not believe John's witness nor Paul's letter to the Philippians - both passages relate to his deity.

Your posted arguments do not support your professed view that he is Messiah in the sense that the Bible uses that term. There is but one G_d, not multiples as you suggest, whether you align yourself to Judaism or Christianity; that one G_d is he that is referred to in both John and Philippians.

I believe that the people doing the translating do not always do a good job.

 

[CherubRam]

You have been teaching today that he is just one of many gods and clearly does not warrant a capital 'G'. You obviously do not believe John's witness nor Paul's letter to the Philippians - both passages relate to his deity.

Your posted arguments do not support your professed view that he is Messiah in the sense that the Bible uses that term. There is but one G_d, not multiples as you suggest, whether you align yourself to Judaism or Christianity; that one G_d is he that is referred to in both John and Philippians.

You should study what Christ says about himself.

 

[Open Heart]

Trinitarianism is not a core belief in Messianic Judaism. About two thirds are Trinitarian, and that is because most came from mainstream Christianity.

The two main denominations of MJ teach that Yeshua is God himself. They TOLERATE those who do not believe so. And this minority is a lot smaller than 1/3.

 

[Heber Book List]

You should study what Christ says about himself.

I have, and I have twice pointed out to you, as has another poster, that when he was on earth he took on the mantle of humanity. You seem to find it easier to ignore that fact so that his comments are either shown to be ambiguous, and / or to fit your understanding that he was supporting your non-Trinitarian views by his own words.

As I have also said previously: the rules seem to show that you may hold those views on these fora, but you may not teach them or post against a Trinitarian view. I'm sure it is possible for you to post within those confines.

Other posters with similar views simply decline to post when Trinitarian issues arise.

 

[CherubRam]

I have, and I have twice pointed out to you, as has another poster, that when he was on earth he took on the mantle of humanity. You seem to find it easier to ignore that fact so that his comments are either shown to be ambiguous, and / or to fit your understanding that he was supporting your non-Trinitarian views by his own words.

As I have also said previously: the rules seem to show that you may hold those views on these fora, but you may not teach them or post against a Trinitarian view. I'm sure it is possible for you to post within those confines.

Other posters with similar views simply decline to post when Trinitarian issues arise.

In other words, there are scriptures that you do not like.

 

[Heber Book List]

In other words, there are scriptures that you do not like.

I think that is evidently your particular difficulty, not mine. If there are scriptures that one does not agree with, there is little that can be done - the Word is the Word is the Word, It is all there for our benefit and we must be as objective in understanding it as we can.

 

[CherubRam]

The two main denominations of MJ teach that Yeshua is God himself. They TOLERATE those who do not believe so. And this minority is a lot smaller than 1/3.

There are non-trinitarian messianic congregations.

 

[tampasteve]

There are non-trinitarian messianic congregations.

True, but most do not identify as Messianic. To quote one Rabbi that is non-trinitarian, believes Yeshua was the Messiach, has a shul, and that I have spoken with and respect highly: "I am an Orthodox Jewish Rabbi. I lead a Sephardic congregation. I believe Yeshua to the be the Messiah. I am not a Christian nor am I a "Messianic" anything."

 

[CherubRam]

True, but most do not identify as Messianic. To quote one Rabbi that is non-trinitarian, believes Yeshua was the Messiach, has a shul, and that I have spoken with and respect highly: "I am an Orthodox Jewish Rabbi. I lead a Sephardic congregation. I believe Yeshua to the be the Messiah. I am not a Christian nor am I a "Messianic" anything."

Why do you use the Messianic faith and not the Orthodox Jew?

 

[tampasteve]

Why do you use the Messianic faith and not the Orthodox Jew?

Sorry, I do not understand the question.

 

[CherubRam]

Sorry, I do not understand the question.

You have your faith listed as Messianic.

 

[tampasteve]

You have your faith listed as Messianic.

Ah, ok. Primarily because there isn't a category for: Jewish proselyte at the gate that believes Yeshua was Messiach but isn't a Cristian and isn't sure about some core tenants of Christianity such as the Trinity.....so Messianic Judaism fits me best as I am too Jewish for church, but too Christian to fit into any Orthodox synagogue near here and never fully converted so can't honestly mark "Jewish".

 

[CherubRam]

Ah, ok. Primarily because there isn't a category for: Jewish proselyte at the gate that believes Yeshua was Messiach but isn't a Cristian and isn't sure about some core tenants of Christianity such as the Trinity.....so Messianic Judaism fits me best as I am too Jewish for church, but too Christian to fit into any Orthodox synagogue near here and never fully converted so can't honestly mark "Jewish".

Heinz 57, I see. OK.

 

[Open Heart]

There are non-trinitarian messianic congregations.

They are not part of either of the two MJ denominations, and they are certainly not common or representational.

There are Nestorian churches, but I would never say that Christianity allows for Nestorianism. Do you understand what I'm trying to say?

Sidebar: I'm just curious. Assuming that your congregation is arian rather than trinitarian, do you accept trinitarians as members? Or only fellow arians?