god and time

[w00dy]

what time is it for god? he knows the future, therefore he knew it in the past and could act to best forfill his whishes then and for the future, so is it always "now" for god? if so does that makes him a time traveller, even though time for him is errevellant, and as he is everywhere he doesnt have to travel.

the word now doesnt seem a big enough word - anyone know a better one

after youve read this thread think back to when you first saw the link - to god is that still "now" ?- is he always in the moment?

ive probably explained myself poorly, soz for that

 

[elman]

what time is it for god? he knows the future, therefore he knew it in the past and could act to best forfill his whishes then and for the future, so is it always "now" for god? if so does that makes him a time traveller, even though time for him is errevellant, and as he is everywhere he doesnt have to travel.

the word now doesnt seem a big enough word - anyone know a better one

after youve read this thread think back to when you first saw the link - to god is that still "now" ?- is he always in the moment?

ive probably explained myself poorly, soz for that

I think God created time and will live after the end of time. Some have said this means that God existes in the eternal present moment. Perhaps, but it at least means God is not subject to or controled by time as we are.

 

[w00dy]

I think God created time and will live after the end of time. Some have said this means that God existes in the eternal present moment. Perhaps, but it at least means God is not subject to or controled by time as we are.

eternal peristant moment - i like it, but i agree with you and think god must be outside of time, coz he was still the same bloke before the creation of our universe (when everything came into existance - lol the only thing both todays science and todays religon agree on) i think this subject is too big for me to comprend

 

[elman]

eternal peristant moment - i like it, but i agree with you and think god must be outside of time, coz he was still the same bloke before the creation of our universe (when everything came into existance - lol the only thing both todays science and todays religon agree on) i think this subject is too big for me to comprend

Don't feel like the lone ranger, this is too big an idea for anyone to comprehend. But that is no reason not to think about it.

 

[w00dy]

there are some nice people knocking about - i think ive just met 2 of them - thank you

 

[RigalCygnos]

Look to the stars, as far as your instruments can take you to inquire of human measures of distance and space, therefore human measures of time become insufficient.

Some comfort themselves in the pretense that there is nothing more. They do not want to see. They do not want to know. And they won't.

 

[w00dy]

this is gonna sound well bad but i remember what the conversation i had with "what i" believe was god (there goes my reputation ) was before i was born (but i only rememberd it after i was born again). eww i was an arrogent sod, i cant remember what he said till abit later

 

[Orontes]

t i agree with you and think god must be outside of time...

Hello,

If God is outside of time then how does He interact with or in time? Any action is necessarily time laden.

 

[RigalCygnos]

Hello,

If God is outside of time then how does He interact with or in time? Any action is necessarily time laden.

Not by "interact". But by intra-action.

 

[Orontes]

Not by "interact". But by intra-action.

If intra-action is the mode then God is within time. This only highlights the contradiction: an a-temporal God is a temporal God (-A and A).

 

[skylark1]

what time is it for god? he knows the future, therefore he knew it in the past and could act to best forfill his whishes then and for the future, so is it always "now" for god? if so does that makes him a time traveller, even though time for him is errevellant, and as he is everywhere he doesnt have to travel.

the word now doesnt seem a big enough word - anyone know a better one

after youve read this thread think back to when you first saw the link - to god is that still "now" ?- is he always in the moment?

ive probably explained myself poorly, soz for that

I like the way that that C.S. Lewis described in Mere Christianty the idea of God existing outside of time :

Another difficulty we get if we believe God to be in time is this. Everyone who believes in God at all believes that He knows what you and I are going to do tomorrow. But if He knows I am going to do so-and so, how can I be free to do otherwise? Well, here once again, the difficulty comes from thinking that God is progressing along the Time-line like us: the only difference being that He can see ahead and we cannot. Well, if that were true, if God foresaw our acts, it would be very hard to understand how we could be free not to do them. But suppose God is outside and above the Time-line. In that case, what we call “tomorrow” is visible to Him in just the same way as what we call “today.” All the days are “Now” for Him. He does not remember you doing things yesterday; He simply sees you doing them: because though tomorrow is not yet there for you, it is for Him. You never supposed that your actions at this moment were any less free because God knows what we are doing. Well, He knows your tomorrow’s actions in the same way—because He is already in tomorrow and can simply watch you. In a sense, He does not know your action till you have done it: but then the moment at which you have done it is already “Now” for Him.

p. 149​

 

[elman]

Hello,

If God is outside of time then how does He interact with or in time? Any action is necessarily time laden.

Just because God exists outside of time and is not subject to time does not mean He is powerless or unable to be in time and subject to time.

 

[elman]

If intra-action is the mode then God is within time. This only highlights the contradiction: an a-temporal God is a temporal God (-A and A).

God is able to be anywhere He wants. He can even become a mortal who dies on a cross.

 

[Orontes]

Just because God exists outside of time and is not subject to time does not mean He is powerless or unable to be in time and subject to time.

It does if God is rational. One cannot be a-temporal and temporal at the same time. It violates the law of non-contradiction. It is an absurdity. Now if one abandons rationality then everything is possible: God can be evil, be cheese, be the number 4 etc.

God is able to be anywhere He wants. He can even become a mortal who dies on a cross.

Show me how -A derives A.

 

[Cleany]

time is a consequence of movement, change, growth - of life.

i dont think that god exists "outside" time, he simply transcends it.

 

[Orontes]

i dont think that god exists "outside" time, he simply transcends it.

What does this mean?

 

[RigalCygnos]

If intra-action is the mode then God is within time. This only highlights the contradiction: an a-temporal God is a temporal God (-A and A).

Not God within time; time within God, not limiting except for earthly existence.
The intra-action is not with time. It is with existence. The elements that comprise existence, even of human minds, are not time-aware. Concept of time and its measurement are relative to the human mind. To all existance of elements, no time. Therefore, concept of God is finite, as humanity is finite.

Infinity without time, but it is all "time".

 

[Orontes]

Not God within time; time within God, not limiting except for earthly existence.

If time is an aspect of God then God is ipso facto temporal. If you wish to say God is both a-temporal and temporal then God is an absurdity as -A and A together is a contradiction.

The intra-action is not with time. It is with existence.

"Action" is itself time laden by definition. If God acts in any way then He is temporal.

Infinity without time, but it is all "time".

This doesn't mean anything: it is self-refuting.

 

[Cleany]

What does this mean?

oops me and by big keyboard.

transcends: To pass beyond the limits of (dictinary.com)

its not that god exists simply "outside" time.

first of all we have no idea whatsoever what "outside time" is like, what we do know is what time is like.

so to say that god exists outside time, is almost to say that we do not know him. but we do and he speaks, and he speaks in time, in our time.

so that first thing that we must say is actually that god exists inside time. but we also believe that god is greater than our concepts and existance, so there must be something else aswell. we can call it "outside time" or we can call it a blamanche, whatever it is we dont know it (perhaps some do, it would be interesting to know!).

so thats why i say that god transcends time, he exists in our time, and also somewhere (sometime) else.

 

[Orontes]

transcends: To pass beyond the limits of (dictinary.com)

its not that god exists simply "outside" time.

first of all we have no idea whatsoever what "outside time" is like, what we do know is what time is like.

so to say that god exists outside time, is almost to say that we do not know him. but we do and he speaks, and he speaks in time, in our time.

This sounds like an appeal to ignorance. Why the penchant to for an "we have no idea whatsoever " position, particularly when the "no idea whatsoever" is being contrasted with a fixed stance with a fixed meaning i.e. temporality. Moreover, the definition of temporality coupled with any "transcends" view means, at the least, accepting an absurdity? Why is this compelling?

so that first thing that we must say is actually that god exists inside time. but we also believe that god is greater than our concepts and existance, so there must be something else aswell. we can call it "outside time" or we can call it a blamanche, whatever it is we dont know it (perhaps some do, it would be interesting to know!).

so thats why i say that god transcends time, he exists in our time, and also somewhere (sometime) else.

Why believe God is greater than our concepts? If one says God is good does God necessarily transcend goodness? If so, then God is both good and amoral which impacts any devotional trust, loyalty or devotional necessity. A similar problem persists for any a-temporal appeal. To the degree God is a-temporal to that same degree He is irrelevant as only a temporal God can act.