God and Time: Does God exist in all points in time?

[RDKirk]

Nevertheless, I do not see 'any reason' for God to 'have' to be outside of time, either to see or do something past or future, because God can do 'anything' from the here and now.

His Word says God "I will, bring it to pass" over and over. He 'knows' the future because God can control and cause the here and Now. So I see God as being able to do 'all things' from the here and 'Now'.

Jesus gave them this answer: "Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.

When and where did the Father do it?

 

[Kaon]

I would agree with posts here that say 'time is not a thing, time is simply a measurement'. Like an inch, a mile, an inch, or a pound; none of these things exist. They are not physical things - things you can be outside of.

Time is an odd concept. unlike space, which is three dimensional, time seems to have only one dimension. Physics tries to conceptualize and even demand other dimensions in time, but the debate seems to be still with the singularity of time (quantum theory noted). Or, the future has not happened, because then it would not be future, it would be 'now'.

Nevertheless, I do not see 'any reason' for God to 'have' to be outside of time, either to see or do something past or future, because God can do 'anything' from the here and now.

His Word says God "I will, bring it to pass" over and over. He 'knows' the future because God can control and cause the here and Now. So I see God as being able to do 'all things' from the here and 'Now'.

The Most High God is OUTSIDE of everything on His throne.

He has been subjected to carnality - not even a subtle n-1 dimensional level from His throne; He is literally everywhere inside and outside of "time". He was praying to the Father while on earth.

Physics won't explain the paradoxes philosophy and mathematics entertain very often.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Do you mean simultaneously?
"He who IS, WAS and COMETH."
I have thought about this a lot too.
I landed on this view:

We are on the progressing point on the time line we call "NOW", moving from the past towards the future.
God is not on that point, He's not even on that line.
He's overseeing that line, the timeline.
However, the time line has to be real, otherwise cause and effect would get messed up, synchronicity would not be there.We can only speculate and speak metaphorically about this i.m.o., because time and the time line and even the speed with which time progresses (laws of nature) are real and can't be tinkered with in our reality. (Some say it can because of Einstein's theories but tend to i disagree, but that's an other subject)
But i would picture it as the distance from the time line which determines how fast or slow it seems to proceed.
When you look close, it travels relatively fast, when you take some distance it seems to proceed slower.
So it would depend on the 'centre of gravity' of the viewpoint.
But again, this is just a feeble attempt at imagining what time is like to God.
God's Omnipresence?
Is that even imaginable from a human's perspective? Not for this human..
One can seriously wonder also if God is involved always and everywhere.
Often seems like God's 'intrusions' (for lack of a better word) in our reality are quite rare.

Before we get bogged down in these theories, I think the problem in Post #113 needs to be resolved if we can move forward to accept such proposed said theories.

 

[Hieronymus]

Before we get bogged down in these theories, I think it the problem in Post #113 needs to be addressed if we can move forward to accept such proposed said theories.

OKay, i'll have a look there.
I just wanted to reply to the OP first.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

OKay, i'll have a look there.
I just wanted to reply to the OP first.

Ah, copy that. Thanks for replying.

Blessings to you in the Lord this fine day.

 

[RDKirk]

I would agree with posts here that say 'time is not a thing, time is simply a measurement'. Like an inch, a mile, an inch, or a pound; none of these things exist. They are not physical things - things you can be outside of.

Time is the measurement of a series of physical events from one event to another event. If there is no series of physical events to measure, there is no time. If there is nothing physical, there is no time.

 

[Kaon]

Do you mean simultaneously?
"He who IS, WAS and COMETH."
I have thought about this a lot too.
I landed on this view:

We are on the progressing point on the time line we call "NOW", moving from the past towards the future.
God is not on that point, He's not even on that line.
He's overseeing that line, the timeline.
However, the time line has to be real, otherwise cause and effect would get messed up, synchronicity would not be there.We can only speculate and speak metaphorically about this i.m.o., because time and the time line and even the speed with which time progresses (laws of nature) are real and can't be tinkered with in our reality. (Some say it can because of Einstein's theories but tend to i disagree, but that's an other subject)
But i would picture it as the distance from the time line which determines how fast or slow it seems to proceed.
When you look close, it travels relatively fast, when you take some distance it seems to proceed slower.
So it would depend on the 'centre of gravity' of the viewpoint.
But again, this is just a feeble attempt at imagining what time is like to God.
God's Omnipresence?
Is that even imaginable from a human's perspective? Not for this human..
One can seriously wonder also if God is involved always and everywhere.
Often seems like God's 'intrusions' (for lack of a better word) in our reality are quite rare.

The name He told Moses to tell the Hebrews literally means "I exist (because/therefore/since) I exist". If you are asking an all-powerful, all-present, all knowing entity what its designation is, "I exist", or "I exist because I exist" is a pithy statement.

The enlightenment movements knew this; likely the popular quote, "I think, therefore I am" was a (poor taste) claim of one's own godhood - straight from the name the Most High God gave Moses.


"God's Omnipresence?
Is that even imaginable from a human's perspective? Not for this human.."

And yet, we are able to model that omnipresence by knowing that God in the flesh came down to earth while He was on the throne!

 

[RDKirk]

Again, how can God exist in our future that we have not experienced yet?
Are people saying that we are living in re-run like on TV?
How can God experience our future if we were not there living it with Him?
The only logical conclusion is that we are living in a re-run like on TV if you believe God exists in the future. Do folks honestly believe we are reliving our lives over with God? What about the first time line that was not a re-run like on TV?

Stop, and truly think about it.

Our future exists in the mind of the Father who fully occupies His own dimension. But that is not merely an imagination, as something we would consider in our own minds, but something that is accomplished as God's sovereign will.

When Jesus said "I see what I see my Father do," Jesus was doing the same thing Moses did:

This is why Moses was warned when he was about to build the tabernacle: "See to it that you make everything according to the pattern shown you on the mountain." -- Hebrews 8

What we call our "future" is in continuous existence in the mind of the Father, "continuous" so that we can put it in present tense as Jesus did ("...what I see my Father do..."), but is a thing yet already accomplished because the Father is not changing His mind, but had already planned from Alpha to Omega before Alpha.

 

[zelosravioli]

RDKirk : "Time is the measurement of a series of physical events..." (#126) Exactly, you repeated my point, if there is nothing to measure, no time is accounted for. A pound of 'sand' is real, but a 'pound' is not a thing.

RDKirk: "When and where did the Father do it?" (#121)
I don't see anything in your verse that refers, or needs to refer to time, or being outside of it (?).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Time is the measurement of a series of physical events from one event to another event. If there is no series of physical events to measure, there is no time. If there is nothing physical, there is no time.

Yes, I would agree with this.
Here is another interesting point on time, by Scott McCloud.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Our future exists in the mind of the Father who fully occupies His own dimension. But that is not merely an imagination, as something we would consider in our own minds, but something that is accomplished as God's sovereign will.

Yes, I would agree that our future exists in God's mind, but that does not mean He is existing in the future physically with us in some future time line (Which is what one suggests is the case when they say that God is outside of time and inhabits, past, present, and future simultaneously).

When Jesus said "I see what I see my Father do," Jesus was doing the same thing Moses did:

This is why Moses was warned when he was about to build the tabernacle: "See to it that you make everything according to the pattern shown you on the mountain." -- Hebrews 8

What we call our "future" is in continuous existence in the mind of the Father, "continuous" so that we can put it in present tense as Jesus did ("...what I see my Father do..."), but is a thing yet already accomplished because the Father is not changing His mind, but had already planned from Alpha to Omega before Alpha.

God's awareness or Omniscience is not the same as God being Omni-Temporal. While God certainly has the power to be Omni-temporal, I do not believe He has exercised this power.

 

[Hieronymus]

Again, how can God exist in our future that we have not experienced yet?

He's waiting for us there, i suppose.
The invitations have been sent out.
He knows we're coming.
But i get your point.
Reading God will be all in all eventually, one could indeed argue that here's some anachronistic stuff going on.
Just like you, i don't believe God is a slave of time like we are now, like our space time reality is.

Are people saying that we are living in re-run like on TV?

No, i think we're the actors playing it live, so to speak.

How can God experience our future if we were not there living it with Him?

Great question.

The only logical conclusion is that we are living in a re-run like on TV if you believe God exists in the future. Do folks honestly believe we are reliving our lives over with God? What about the first time line that was not a re-run like on TV?

[I think we are still on that time line playing the story live.
So i would have to conclude that we will eventually pop out of our time bound reality and somehow end up with God in eternity / timelessness.
From God's point of view we have always been there, in what is to us the future, when the future is always a reality to God.
That's God's Harvest from his Creation though.
Harvest means growing something first, which means it was not there before, but it's a goal.

Stop, and truly think about it.

Yeah, it's a philosophical case for predestination i think you want to make.
But i don't think full predestination is compatible with Love.
Full predestination is programming, whereas Love is a choice of some sorts.
God can program a creature to love Him, but that would be God loving Himself by means of running his program in a creature.
Robot love, basically, which i don't believe to be real conscious Love.
So while i think it's a strong argument for predestination and even programming, i don't believe it.

Other problem i.m.o. is that when you consider God is never changing, it implies stasis, which would make the whole thing of a time bound reality a bit idle...

Looking forward to when we will see and know what's going on exactly.
It's obviously overwhelmingly astonishing and unimaginable.

 

[zelosravioli]

Kaon, posted (#122): "The Most High God is OUTSIDE of everything on His throne.
He has been subjected to carnality - not even a subtle n-1 dimensional level from His throne; He is literally everywhere inside and outside of "time". He was praying to the Father while on earth. Physics won't explain the paradoxes philosophy and mathematics entertain very often"

Speaking to God from Earth, doesn't necessitate a need for a different time (?).
Nothing in scripture 'says' God is, or 'needs' to be 'outside' of time (or everything ?).

God is real, God is involved with reality. He can be 'in' His Creation, Lord of Creation, and in control of His Creation, from and 'in' creation 'now'- I don't see why or where God 'needs' to be outside of time. His Knowing the future can be explained by His bringing it to pass.

God's abilities: Omnipotent, Omnipresent, Omniscient, All powerful, All knowing, do not need an alternate 'explanation' or assumptions of time travel, time dimensions, or concepts to defend 'any' of these abilities (Christians do not 'need' to come up with something 'extra' biblical to help explain Gods omniscience, etc., its unnecessary, and irritates the intellectual)

I find that alternate time dimensions, ideas of alternate 'places' for God etc. have more in common with eastern religion than our Scriptures.

(Spirit can be in multiple places at once, apparently. But Spirit or spirits are not measurements, nor time')

 

[ToBeLoved]

You are not really expressing your belief here. What is your view of God and time?

Answer the question

 

[Halbhh]

At which point in time does God not exist?

If God chooses for a future to exist, with the quality that it has not yet happened, by His will, His choice, then it hasn't yet happened, by His choice.

 

[Halbhh]

Isaiah chapter 46 has wording that can help:

NIV
9 Remember the former things, those of long ago;
I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is none like me.

10 I make known the end from the beginning,
from ancient times, what is still to come.
I say, ‘My purpose will stand,
and I will do all that I please.’

11 From the east I summon a bird of prey;
from a far-off land, a man to fulfill my purpose.
What I have said, that I will bring about;
what I have planned, that I will do.

ESV:
9 remember the former things of old;
for I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is none like me,

10 declaring the end from the beginning
and from ancient times things not yet done,
saying, ‘My counsel shall stand,
and I will accomplish all my purpose,’

11 calling a bird of prey from the east,
the man of my counsel from a far country.
I have spoken, and I will bring it to pass;
I have purposed, and I will do it.

------------
Here the wording is to do what it takes to cause an outcome:

"...will do"
"...I will bring about"
"I will accomplish all my purpose"
"...what I have planned, that I will do"

So, the future is set for some certain particular things -- certain things which God has chosen to cause to happen, to accomplish, to bring about, to do.

Those will happen. Other details, like hurricanes, nice spring rains, and all the rest -- are nature in action, naturally, His design working on it's own. We are not told that nature is fully deterministic, so that it is only a clockwork universe. Since scripture does not say nature is fully deterministic, all the future already fixed in all ways, we can't assume it is.

 

[PaulCyp1]

Not only in all points of time, He also existed before He created time and space, and will continue to exist after time and space cease to exist.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Answer the question

Does my answering the question serve the purpose of this thread?
The OP question of this thread states:

"Does God exist in all points in time?"

Have you answered that thread OP question by staying on topic?
If so, what post # is it?
If you are asking me a question that is not exactly on topic with answering the thread topic, then please post another thread to discuss that.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Not only in all points of time, He also existed before He created time and space, and will continue to exist after time and space cease to exist.

Not denying that God has always existed and exists now and that He will forever exist. The question is asking if He is existing simultaneously in all points in time at once (past, present, and future).

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I don't think such assertions can be made of a dimension in which no physical law that we can comprehend is in effect--which is what God the creator of our universe is. What does "event" mean in such a dimension where nothing exists but God? What changes in the dimension that is wholly Him and nothing but Him, that existed before He created anything?

What "past" did God experience? Maybe He didn't have a beard when he was younger? What "future" will God experience? Will He get arthritis?

Such concepts can only be applied within in our created universe. All "events" occur in that which is created, not that which is uncreated.

With respect to our created universe, the Son exists in this created universe--the First Entity to appear in this created universe--and He can point to the events of this created universe in terms of "past" and "present" and "future" because they relate to temporal progressions.

If you cut out a slice of your apple pie and that slice represents everything you know and ever will know, and the rest of the pie represents everything else that is outside of your knowledge, how can you confidently say that God cannot have a past present and future? Or that there has been events in Heaven throughout eternity that you know nothing about? Revelation talks about angels and elders who are residents of Heaven. They were there before our physical universe was created. We have no idea what they did or where they went before Creation. So, without the background knowledge, any statements about God outside of what He has revealed to us in the Bible, has to be pure guesswork.