Gnostic Discussion

[Dr. Bill Thomas]

What the gnostic books reveal is that the gnostic style of faith is a different way to be Christian. It is to reject the fundamentalist's way to simply "believe" and that is it! It rejects the Biblical literalists, rejects those who say just accept the Creeds, rejects those who say orthodox Christian doctrine explains it all. It is to reject those who say Christianity means accept Jesus or go to hell!

It promotes that Christ's intent was more a spiritual relationship to God rather than the establishment of a "belief system."

Rather the gnostic way to be Christian was a more spiritual path. Knowing Jesus preached in parables, not laying forth doctrines or creeds, opposing religious hard-liners, they believed his message was to open a way for persons to relate directly to God. His purpose was not to elevate or idolize the past, as Christianity has done essentially, but to declare a living relationship with the Spirit of God, available and open to all.

 

[brinny]

What the gnostic books reveal is that the gnostic style of faith is a different way to be Christian. It is to reject the fundamentalist's way to simply "believe" and that is it! It rejects the Biblical literalists, rejects those who say just accept the Creeds, rejects those who say orthodox Christian doctrine explains it all. It is to reject those who say Christianity means accept Jesus or go to hell!

It promotes that Christ's intent was more a spiritual relationship to God rather than the establishment of a "belief system."

Rather the gnostic way to be Christian was a more spiritual path. Knowing Jesus preached in parables, not laying forth doctrines or creeds, opposing religious hard-liners, they believed his message was to open a way for persons to relate directly to God. His purpose was not to elevate or idolize the past, as Christianity has done essentially, but to declare a living relationship with the Spirit of God, available and open to all.

Gnosticism denies Jesus the Christ's, (the only begotten Son of the living God, the living God, El Elyon, God Most High) deity as the only begotten son of God Most High and is, in fact God.

Does it not?


Let it rain.

 

[GeorgeJ]

What the gnostic books reveal is that the gnostic style of faith is a different way to be Christian. It is to reject the fundamentalist's way to simply "believe" and that is it! It rejects the Biblical literalists, rejects those who say just accept the Creeds, rejects those who say orthodox Christian doctrine explains it all. It is to reject those who say Christianity means accept Jesus or go to hell!

It promotes that Christ's intent was more a spiritual relationship to God rather than the establishment of a "belief system."

Rather the gnostic way to be Christian was a more spiritual path. Knowing Jesus preached in parables, not laying forth doctrines or creeds, opposing religious hard-liners, they believed his message was to open a way for persons to relate directly to God. His purpose was not to elevate or idolize the past, as Christianity has done essentially, but to declare a living relationship with the Spirit of God, available and open to all.

In your opinion, what is the difference between this and Deism (or Christian Deism)?

 

[Dr. Bill Thomas]

Gnosticism denies Jesus the Christ's, (the only begotten Son of the living God, the living God, El Elyon, God Most High) deity as the only begotten son of God Most High and is, in fact God.

Does it not?


Let it rain.

Gnosticism does not deny Jesus. Verify your information. I suggest you read The Jesus Mysteries by Tim Freke. It is clear, concise, and very well researched and referenced.

 

[Dr. Bill Thomas]

In your opinion, what is the difference between this and Deism (or Christian Deism)?

Deism is the belief that god created the universe and then went on his way to do something else. Gnostic Cosmology would need to be a thread of it's own. The Gnostic World View: A Brief Summary of Gnosticism

 

[brinny]

Gnosticism does not deny Jesus. Verify your information. I suggest you read The Jesus Mysteries by Tim Freke. It is clear, concise, and very well researched and referenced.

I apologize if i was not clear.

Gnosticism denies Jesus the Christ as being God Most High.

Does it not?



Let it rain.

 

[Hidden In Him]

What the gnostic books reveal is that the gnostic style of faith is a different way to be Christian. It is to reject the fundamentalist's way to simply "believe" and that is it! It rejects the Biblical literalists, rejects those who say just accept the Creeds, rejects those who say orthodox Christian doctrine explains it all. It is to reject those who say Christianity means accept Jesus or go to hell!

Hi, Bill.

Listen I think I understand where you are coming from, or at least the things about orthodox Christianity that you find offensive. Yes, mindless creeds simply being handed down by men without the guidance and inspiration of the Holy Spirit ARE a problem. They constitute error, and a straying from the truth, and a straying from intimacy with the True and Living God.

However, here's the thing: Are you certain you are hearing from that True and Living Spirit yourself? Those forms of Gnosticism that developed by the 3rd century were a far cry from what Gnosticism was originally. The Fathers regarded Simon the Magician as the founder of all things Gnostic during the New Testament era, and during this time it was purely a sex religion. It was also an espousal to operate in great demonic power to work miracles that mimicked those of our Lord Jesus Christ and His apostles.

Be encouraged that seeking truth outside Christian orthodoxy is something I would encourage a believer to do, since there are a great many false things being accepted as true today. But be on guard that Gnosticism holds the key. In truth, it was originally incited by the Devil himself as a way of perverting "Christianity" into something it was not.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Gnosticism does not deny Jesus. Verify your information. I suggest you read The Jesus Mysteries by Tim Freke. It is clear, concise, and very well researched and referenced.

There was no such thing as "Gnosticism", there were a multitude of Gnosticisms. And they frequently had very different things to say about "Jesus", which includes the Docetic belief that Jesus was a divine apparition.

Gnosticism is not some kind of Christianity sans dogma; it's merely an alternative set of dogmas.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Dr. Bill Thomas]

Hi, Bill.

Listen I think I understand where you are coming from, or at least the things about orthodox Christianity that you find offensive. Yes, mindless creeds simply being handed down by men without the guidance and inspiration of the Holy Spirit ARE a problem. They constitute error, and a straying from the truth, and a straying from intimacy with the True and Living God.

However, here's the thing: Are you certain you are hearing from that True and Living Spirit yourself? Those forms of Gnosticism that developed by the 3rd century were a far cry from what Gnosticism was originally. The Fathers regarded Simon the Magician as the founder of all things Gnostic during the New Testament era, and during this time it was purely a sex religion. It was also an espousal to operate in great demonic power to work miracles that mimicked those of our Lord Jesus Christ and His apostles.

Be encouraged that seeking truth outside Christian orthodoxy is something I would encourage a believer to do, since there are a great many false things being accepted as true today. But be on guard that Gnosticism holds the key. In truth, it was originally incited by the Devil himself as a way of perverting "Christianity" into something it was not.

Cathars regarded themselves as Christians. They used the New Testament, especially the John Gospel, and repeated the Lord's Prayer with the addition of the words "For thine is the kingdom, the power and the glory, for ever and ever" (which the Roman Church regarded as evidence of heresy before it also adopted this ending ). Believers were generally called "Good-men" and "Good-women", or "Good-Christians". The name Cathar had been adopted by the Catholic Church originally as an insult, but people tended to assume that the name was derived from the Greek word for "pure", so it stuck. The Catholic Church ordered they all be burned at the stake. Men, women, and children . . .

 

[Dr. Bill Thomas]

There was no such thing as "Gnosticism", there were a multitude of Gnosticisms. And they frequently had very different things to say about "Jesus", which includes the Docetic belief that Jesus was a divine apparition.

Gnosticism is not some kind of Christianity sans dogma; it's merely an alternative set of dogmas.

-CryptoLutheran

The level of ignorance concerning Gnosticism on this site is astounding. Do all of you just repeat what other christian dogmatists have told you without thinking it through?

 

[GeorgeJ]

Yes, mindless creeds simply being handed down by men without the guidance and inspiration of the Holy Spirit ARE a problem.

If the "holy spirit" were a guiding factor in any of this, there would be no divisions within Christianity. Either someone's right, or everyone is wrong. IMO.........everyone's wrong.

 

[ViaCrucis]

The level of ignorance concerning Gnosticism on this site is astounding. Do all of you just repeat what other christian dogmatists have told you without thinking it through?

Or, you know, I've actually read a number of ancient Gnostic texts, e.g. from the Nag Hammadi Library, and have a rudimentary grasp of these things through primary and secondary sources.

But I suppose simply calling someone a parrot is a nice way to not have to engage in anything resembling a conversation.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Hidden In Him]

Cathars regarded themselves as Christians. They used the New Testament, especially the John Gospel, and repeated the Lord's Prayer with the addition of the words "For thine is the kingdom, the power and the glory, for ever and ever" (which the Roman Church regarded as evidence of heresy before it also adopted this ending ). Believers were generally called "Good-men" and "Good-women", or "Good-Christians". The name Cathar had been adopted by the Catholic Church originally as an insult, but people tended to assume that the name was derived from the Greek word for "pure", so it stuck. The Catholic Church ordered they all be burned at the stake. Men, women, and children . . .

Yes, Bill. But I was trying to bring you back to Christianity in the New Testament era. Instead you are bringing me even farther out into the 12th - 14th centuries.

Listen, pursue the truth, but don't let Satan use nine million different bad examples of Christianity as a basis for rejecting original orthodoxy. The foundation laid down by our Lord and the apostles much more closely resembled that of Christian orthodoxy today (despite its many flaws, falsehoods and weakness) than Gnosticism in any of its forms, ancient or modern.

I don't go around and around with anyone on debates. It's not really my style. So I pray you will forgive me if I bow out of the conversation at this point. But I will say a prayer for you that your search for answers ultimately leads you to the truth.

God bless you, and very best wishes.
HiH

 

[Hidden In Him]

If the "holy spirit" were a guiding factor in any of this, there would be no divisions within Christianity. Either someone's right, or everyone is wrong. IMO.........everyone's wrong.

IMHO, everyone but Jesus is wrong about at least something....

Jesus and George J. And they're just a pickin' n a grinnin' and a waiten for the rest of us to catch up.

 

[jaybird88]

The level of ignorance concerning Gnosticism on this site is astounding. Do all of you just repeat what other christian dogmatists have told you without thinking it through?

I agree Bill. i think the gnostics had some good philosophies. one being establish your own unique relationship with the Lord and dont depend on a group to do this for you. this alone would explain why the church declared war on them.
one thing i have never understood is the demiurge concept that some of the gnostics followed. rome says its the belief the Most High of the Hebrew bible was Satan, which makes no sense being as all gnostics followed the teachings of Jesus which would mean they believed the Father of Jesus was Satan. i seriousely doubt these guys believed they were following the Son of the devil.

 

[Sanoy]

What the gnostic books reveal is that the gnostic style of faith is a different way to be Christian.

John 14:6 :Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

It is to reject the fundamentalist's way to simply "believe" and that is it!

John 11:26 "I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?"

It rejects the Biblical literalists, rejects those who say just accept the Creeds

1 Cor. 15:3-5 "For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve."

It is to reject those who say Christianity means accept Jesus or go to hell!

John 14:6 :Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

It promotes that Christ's intent was more a spiritual relationship to God rather than the establishment of a "belief system."

Matthew 16:18 "upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

I think Gnosticism does lead ones minds to a spiritual world, and I think any one who initiates in that pursuit will find will find such a world. The Spiritual world is an eager place. But that world is not for me.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I do find it fascinating to conflate adherence to the orthodox and apostolic faith as "fundamentalism". I tend to find fundamentalism to be far less about traditional Christian orthodoxy and more about modernistic biblicism.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[RaymondG]

I think Gnosticism does lead ones minds to a spiritual world, and I think any one who initiates in that pursuit will find will find such a world. The Spiritual world is an eager place. But that world is not for me.

So how do you worship the Father in spirit and in truth?

 

[Sanoy]

So how do you worship the Father in spirit and in truth?

In spirit, through His Spirit, not the spirit world.

 

[RaymondG]

In spirit, through His Spirit, not the spirit world.

Do you have a simple example?