Glow surrounds Solar System (fishbowl boundary?)

[dad]

4 October 2018 dad: A "Your opinion of what origin sciences are" lie when evolution is science and abiogenesis is science.

They are called science. They are mostly baloney.

 

[dad]

4 October 2018 dad: Multiple "posted off target spam nonsense" lies.
He lied on 15 August 2018 dad: A "fishbowl philosophy" lie because he knows that physics has been tested outside of the Solar System.
when he knew about my list of
10 items of scientific evidence that time runs about the same rate in far space as it does in the Solar System.

I added a clear test of physics of light emitted from stars outside of the solar system, e.g. whether the fine structure constant changes (Time-variation of fundamental constants).
It is a lie that this is off topic.
It is a lie that this is spam.
It is a lie that this is nonsense.
It is a blatant lie that the FSC test is circular when it is obviously linear:

Looking at item 2 on your list, I see this

"The fact that stars exist says that time is running there. The fact that stars obey the laws of physics as determined shows that time is running at the same rate."


Wrong on both counts. The mere existence of stars in no way means that time there is the same as here.

The light from stars is seen only here. So what we see happening (what is obeyed) is also here.
Any rate is seen here in our time so it happens/unfolds in our time. You cannot say any rate is the same anywhere where time does not exist the same, obviously.

1. The fine structure constant controls the fine structure of spectra.

In the fishbowl..yes...irrelevant.

1. A change of the fine structure of spectra will show that the fine structure constant varies.

It doesn't vary...here IN the fishbowl where we see it!

1. A 2008 result is that spectral fine structure is the same in distant stars as it is here and thus gives "an upper bound on time variation of 10−17 per year".

Show the basis for this claim.

 

[RealityCheck01]

Looking at item 2 on your list, I see this

"The fact that stars exist says that time is running there. The fact that stars obey the laws of physics as determined shows that time is running at the same rate."

Wrong on both counts. The mere existence of stars in no way means that time there is the same as here.

Seen this before but will record it again.
10 October 2018 dad: A lie that my item 2 states existence = time is the same (existence = time runs).
The existence of stars = time is running at the stars.
The laws of physics being obeyed at stars = time is running at the same rate (same rate for fusion to balance gravity).

 

[RealityCheck01]

10 items of scientific evidence that time runs about the same rate in far space as it does in the Solar System (updated to make any lie about item 2 obvious).

 

[dad]

Seen this before but will record it again.
10 October 2018 dad: A lie that my item 2 states existence = time is the same (existence = time runs).
The existence of stars = time is running at the stars.
The laws of physics being obeyed at stars = time is running at the same rate (same rate for fusion to balance gravity).

Laws are obeyed in the fishbowl, where we see starlight. Your claim existence equals time runs the same is utter foolishness.

 

[RealityCheck01]

Laws are obeyed in the fishbowl, where we see starlight. Your claim existence equals time runs the same is utter foolishness.

The usual utter wrongness, dad. I do not "claim existence equals time runs the same". Try reading and understanding my post::
10 items of scientific evidence that time runs about the same rate in far space as it does in the Solar System (updated to make his claim about item 2 obviously wrong).

 

[dad]

The usual utter wrongness, dad. I do not "claim existence equals time runs the same". Try reading and understanding my post::
10 items of scientific evidence that time runs about the same rate in far space as it does in the Solar System (updated to make his claim about item 2 obviously wrong).

Try being clear.

 

[RealityCheck01]

To be clear: There is empirical evidence that time runs as expected throughout the universe.

Start with the reasonable, rational Copernican principle that the Earth and Solar System is not a privileged location. Test that principle and find nothing special about the Earth and Solar System.

Predictions based on physics here that are confirmed elsewhere is evidence that time runs elsewhere as it does here. In theory that is millions of astronomical papers! Some that I can think of.

1. Stars exist thus time does not stop.
   It takes time for light to escape from a star and travel from the star to us.
2. Stars do not have microsecond or century lifetimes thus time does not go at an extreme rate.
3. Sun-like stars exist thus time passes in them at the same rate as the Sun.
   Hydrostatic equilibrium means a star such as the Sun needs a specific rate of fusion for thermal pressure to balance gravitational weight.
4. Stellar models work thus time passes in all stars as expected.
5. The fine structure constant is measured to be constant to a large degree from sources showing time passes normally there.
   A variation in time will vary the speed of light and thus the fine structure constant. The fine structure constant determines the fine structure of spectra. We measure basically the same fine structure of spectra from observed sources, e.g. quasars.
6. Supernova 1987A produced the expected delay between light and neutrinos thus time passed there as it does here (neutrinos arrived four hours before the light did).
   Light scatters from matter. Neutrinos basically go straight through matter with extremely small scattering rates. Thus light is delayed by travelling a long zigzag route through the body of a supernova while neutrinos are not. We detected that delay from SN1987A.
   How A Failed Nuclear Experiment Accidentally Gave Birth To Neutrino Astronomy
7. A delay between light and neutrinos was also detected from blazar TXS 0506+056 indicating that time passed normally there.
   Ghostly neutrino caught in South Pole ice ushers in a new astronomy
   A delay was expected. The physics of relativistic jets is not well developed so I suspect that the size of the delay was not closely predicted by the models.
8. A delay between light and gravitational waves in a neutron star merger indicates that time passed normally there.
   Ask Ethan: Why Did Light Arrive 1.7 Seconds After Gravitational Waves In The Neutron Star Merger?
   
9. Exoplanets in their orbits are basically clocks showing time passing as normal.
   N.B. That is probably not all exoplantets. I suspect that the orbit and mass of the exoplanet needs to be established by 2 of the 3 independent methods of detection (transit, star wobble and direct).
   Direct Observations of a Planet Orbiting a Star 63 Light-Years Away
10. Supernova happen as expected for time running at the same rate as here.
11. Supernova light curves are as expected showing time passes normally at supernova.
    
12. Type 1a supernova light curves are time dilated as expected for the redshift (velocity) of their galaxies indicating that time passes normally in those galaxies.
13. The predictions for the "chirping" of gravitational waves are matched by measured "chirping".
    That is time passing as expected for the merging black holes and (1 example so far) merging neutron stars.
14. Observations of gravitational redshift at white dwarf stars (an incorrect measurement in 1925, correct observations starting in 1954). This is the same gravitational redshift that we measure here on Earth.
15. The Sachs–Wolfe effect is gravitational shifting of CMB light as it passes through superclusters and voids billions of light years away from us. Light needs time to cross the superclusters and voids and produce the effect. Plug in a speed of light unchanged by a time fantasy and the effects are what we expect.
16. Quasars change brightness at rates that matches them being the bright, active nuclei of galaxies.
17. Ejected shells of matter from nova and supernova are measure to move as expected.
18. The pulses from pulsars are what we expect from spinning neutron stars or white dwarfs, e.g. there are no annual pulses or nanosecond pulses.
19. The Hulse–Taylor binary has pulses that vary as predicted by GR.
20. The Coolest Place In The Universe Is Colder Than Empty, Intergalactic Space
    Predict that the preplanetary nebulae can "achieve a cooler temperature than anything else that naturally occurred in the Universe" with the right conditions. Find a preplanetary nebulae with those conditions. It matches the predictions from physics derived inside the Solar System!

 

[dad]

To be clear: There is empirical evidence that time runs as expected throughout the universe.

Start with the reasonable, rational Copernican principle that the Earth and Solar System is not a privileged location. Test that principle and find nothing special about the Earth and Solar System.

No. Why would we start with such an astoundingly foolish and unfounded belief? That is head in the sand level dreaming.

Predictions based on physics here that are confirmed elsewhere is evidence that time runs elsewhere as it does here. In theory that is millions of astronomical papers! Some that I can think of.

1. Stars exist thus time does not stop.

Of course stars exist. That does not mean that time is the same there as here. Not sure what this time stops thing you talk about even is? If time existed differently, that would not be stopping to exist.

1. 
   It takes time for light to escape from a star and travel from the star to us.

How far away that star is cannot be determined unless one assumes time is the same and makes arbitrary measures accordingly that would lose all meaning if time were not the same! basically your so called distances are nothing but declarations of faith that time exists the same everywhere.

You see how much time it takes here is not the measure of what time is involved there. Not that we know.

1. 
   

   [*]Stars do not have microsecond or century lifetimes thus time does not go at an extreme rate.

1. 
   The lifeTIME they have as seen from here is in our time!

2. Sun-like stars exist thus time passes in them at the same rate as the Sun.
   Hydrostatic equilibrium means a star such as the Sun needs a specific rate of fusion for thermal pressure to balance gravitational weight.

How much gravity was involved depends on mass. How much mass there is depends on distances being known, which depends on time there being known to be the same. Gong.

1. Stellar models work thus time passes in all stars as expected.

I do not believe stellar models work. Show one that works. We will see that it depends on your core belief of time existing the same all over the universe. Stellar models also involve millions or billions of years to get to where they are now. Total religion.

1. 
   

   [*]The fine structure constant is measured to be constant to a large degree from sources showing time passes normally there.

1. 
   False. That is circular reasoning and fishbowl based belief induced delusion.

2. A variation in time will vary the speed of light and thus the fine structure constant

   . Get over it there IS NO speed of light in the universe that we know about. There is the speed or way light behaves here in our time and space that you try to claim is also the speed in all the universe for no reason at all. You see something move out there and figure it must be moving at the speed light moves here! Why?

1. 
   

   [*]
   
   [*]
   
   [*]The fine structure constant determines the fine structure of spectra. We measure basically the same fine structure of spectra from observed sources, e.g. quasars.

2. The info in spectra does T include what time is like. Really. Merely knowing that we detect some elements there doesn't tell us much.
   

   [*]
   
   [*]Supernova 1987A produced the expected delay between light and neutrinos thus time passed there as it does here (neutrinos arrived four hours before the light did).

   Great so you saw something here in four hours from somewhere out there. How far, we don't know. The four fishbowl hours simply cannot tell us much!
3. 
   

   Light scatters from matter. Neutrinos basically go straight through matter with extremely small scattering rates. Thus light is delayed by travelling a long zigzag route through the body of a supernova while neutrinos are not. We detected that delay from SN1987A.

4. 
   
5. Think about it SN1987a is more than 4 light hours away! Ha.
6. 
   
   

   [*]
   
   [*]A delay between light and neutrinos was also detected from blazar TXS 0506+056 indicating that time passed normally there.

7. Passes where? The distance is not known. A mere delay in the fishbowl of arriving light tells us about here....in the light hours reach. Not millions of light years away (your religion preaches).
8. 
   
9. 
   
   

   [*]
   
   [*]A delay between light and gravitational waves in a neutron star merger indicates that time passed normally there.

10. A delay as seen only here and experienced IN our time.

1. Exoplanets in their orbits are basically clocks showing time passing as normal.
   N.B. That is probably not all exoplantets. I suspect that the orbit and mass of the exoplanet needs to be established by 2 of the 3 independent methods of detection (transit, star wobble and direct).

There is NO meaning to something of unknown size going around something else of unknown size, both of which are at unknown distances and existing in unknown time and space!!!

1. 
   

   [*]
   Direct Observations of a Planet Orbiting a Star 63 Light-Years Away
   [*]Supernova happen as expected for time running at the same rate as here.
   [*]Supernova light curves are as expected showing time passes normally at supernova.

2. All as seen in our time.

1. Type 1a supernova light curves are time dilated as expected for the redshift (velocity) of their galaxies indicating that time passes normally in those galaxies.

The dilation of objects of unknown distance/size doesn't tell us time is the same. Especially when only seen IN our time!

1. The Sachs–Wolfe effect is gravitational shifting of CMB light as it passes through superclusters and voids billions of light years away from us. Light needs time to cross the superclusters and voids and produce the effect. Plug in a speed of light unchanged by a time fantasy and the effects are what we expect.

   Everything HERE takes time. Even if it did not out there. We see something cross something else out there and it takes so much time...as seen here!

1. Quasars change brightness at rates that matches them being the bright, active nuclei of galaxies.

   The timed intervals of twinkling or brightening/fading...etc are only seen here in our time.

1. Ejected shells of matter from nova and supernova are measure to move as expected.

We expect time to be involved as it will be in anything seen here from anywhere. That speaks of time here. Not there.

 

[ianw16]

We expect time to be involved as it will be in anything seen here from anywhere. That speaks of time here. Not there.

Science really isn't your thing, is it? How about backing up your nonsense with some actual science from the scientific literature? If it's only you claiming this, then we can all safely ignore it as being the delusions of a scientifically illiterate layman.

 

[dad]

Science really isn't your thing, is it? How about backing up your nonsense with some actual science from the scientific literature? If it's only you claiming this, then we can all safely ignore it as being the delusions of a scientifically illiterate layman.

No wind in your sails eh? If science knew what time was like out there maybe you could post it rather than moan about nothing.

 

[ianw16]

No wind in your sails eh? If science knew what time was like out there maybe you could post it rather than moan about nothing.

So, as suspected, you have nothing. Fine. Just lay off the science questions, yes? Seems to be beyond you.

 

[dad]

So, as suspected, you have nothing. Fine. Just lay off the science questions, yes? Seems to be beyond you.

Lay of the science?? Ha. I see you already done that, and offer void retorts.

 

[ianw16]

Lay of the science?? Ha. I see you already done that, and offer void retorts.

There is nothing scientific to respond to. If there is, then point to it in the scientific literature, and I'll have a look at it. As far as I can see, you are dismissing the whole scientific consensus that time flows the same pretty much everywhere, due to a faith-based belief. That is not science.

 

[dad]

There is nothing scientific to respond to. If there is, then point to it in the scientific literature, and I'll have a look at it. As far as I can see, you are dismissing the whole scientific consensus that time flows the same pretty much everywhere, due to a faith-based belief. That is not science.

If the basis is used in a science claim/model then yes, there has to be some support for that basis, not just a good feeling and belief.

If you claim time 'flows' the same everywhere, let's see the proof. No one has ever been out of the area of the earth to see or experience time flowing.

 

[ianw16]

If the basis is used in a science claim/model then yes, there has to be some support for that basis, not just a good feeling and belief.

If you claim time 'flows' the same everywhere, let's see the proof.

You have already been given the proof by RC. You just fail to understand it. And why the hell wouldn't it flow the same everywhere else? Pretty dumb assertion, eh? I'm assuming you invented it to try to dismiss some science or other that contradicts your faith-based, evidence-free superstitious beliefs?

 

[Petros2015]

Links to lies from the deluded Thunderbolts "cult".

Those guys are awesome. They will tell you that the moon craters are from interplanetary lightning bolt discharges and that planetary orbits can suddenly and drastically change in their model. (Mars and Jupiter were once much closer and throwing literal interplanetary lightning bolts and causing catacylsms, this is why they were the subject of worship, is their theory).

Other than that, the Electric Universe has some pretty entertaining ideas.

 

[RealityCheck01]

No. Why would we start with such an astoundingly foolish and unfounded belief? .....

A post with a lot of irrelevant and ignorant nonsense that does not address the empirical evidence: There is empirical evidence that time runs as expected throughout the universe
The ignorance starts with "astoundingly foolish and unfounded belief" when the
Copernican principle is a rational, founded and tested principle.

Ignorance about the first point:

• Cannot understand "Stars exist thus time does not stop." is time does not stop !
• Cannot understand that the light traveling thru a star and to us tells us time does not stop . The distance is irrelevant. If time stopped in the star or in the journey to us then the light would not arrive.

Nonsense about observing stars here as if he expects us to observe from outside of the Soar System! The nonsense just continues.

 

[RealityCheck01]

Other than that, the Electric Universe has some pretty entertaining ideas.

Velikovsky's story in the 1950's was about Venus erupting from Jupiter and wandering over to Earth to stop it spinning, restart Earth spinning exactly as before, and drop manna. He imagined contacts with Mars and Jupiter. The neo-Velikovsky Thunderbolts crowd have added more electrical discharges to do magic.

The electric universe certainly has pretty entertaining ideas for people interested in how deep a pit of ignorance and delusion some people can dig themselves to support their fantasies. Though "appalling" and "horrific" also spring to mind! They turn the Sun into a white dwarf by turning off internal fusion that it needs to be stable. Similarly for main sequence stars so the universe they live in is obviously not ours. They are obsessed with plasma but deny basic plasma properties, e.g. quasi-neutrality gives a Debye length above which plasma acts as a neutral gas (a tiny fraction of a light year for the interstellar medium).

 

[dad]

Y...why the hell wouldn't it flow the same everywhere else? Pretty dumb assertion, eh?

More importantly for your claims and beliefs, why would it?