Glossolalia

[Audiomechanic]

You and I agree in the believe that the gift of tongues is used to allow one person to communicate with another of a foreign dialect without learning it. Where we differ is whether or not it is a "Heavenly language" or "prayer language."

Before I get back to Corinthians, here's some interesting info from the website I posted a few posts back.

History of Speaking in Tongues

Throughout recorded history there have been many occasions where people have spoken in unknown tongues which are also known as ecstatic tongues. Note most of these accounts predate Pentecost and were of non-Christian origin. Christians therefore can not say with confidence that every occurrence of glossolalia must be an expression of the will of God even though many do subscribe to this view. Those practicing speaking in tongues today portray Pentecost as the supreme example of supernatural tongues; however, the recorded cases of glossolalia go back as far as 1100 B.C. On that occasion a young Amen worshiper attracted historical infamy when he became possessed by a god and began to make sounds in a strange ecstatic tongue.

Seven hundred years later, the Greek philosopher Plato demonstrated that he was well acquainted with the phenomenon as he referred to several families who practiced ecstatic speech, praying and utterings while supposedly possessed. He also pointed out that these practices had even brought physical healing to those who engaged in them. Plato and most of his contemporaries asserted that these occurrences were caused by divine inspiration. He suggested that God takes possession of the mind while man sleeps or is possessed and during this state, God inspires him with utterances which he can neither understand nor interpret. This does NOT mean of course that one practising tongue speaking as seen today is possessed or not saved. That of course is just simply not true. When God confused the languages of His people who were rebelling at Babel in Genesis 11, they also spoke in “new tongues” and note this happened without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

In the last century before Christ, Virgil described the ecstatic tongues of the Sybilline priestess on the Island of Delos as the result of her being unified with the god Apollo. This happened while she meditated in a haunted cave amidst the eerie sounds of the wind playing strange music through the narrow crevices in the rocks.

Several of the mystery religions of the Greco-Roman world record the same phenomenon. Some of those most often listed are the Mithra cult of the Persians; the Osiris cult originating in the land of the Pharaohs, and the lesser known Dionysian, Eulusinian, and Orphic cults cradled in Macedonia, Thrace and Greece. Another indication comes from Lucian of Samosata (A.D. 120-198) who in De Dea Syria describes an example of glossolalia as exhibited by a roaming believer of June, the Syrian goddess, stationed at Hierapolis in Syria. It is also interesting to note that the term glossolalia used so widely today comes from the Greek vernacular which was in existence long before the day of Pentecost. It should be frightening to all Christians that what we see now in the Church today, resembles these occurrences of ecstatic tongues that took place in these ancient cults before the day of Pentecost and that what took place at Pentecost does not in any way resemble these occurrences. At Pentecost, it was undoubtedly and unarguably the speaking of foreign languages.

Believe it or not, tongue speaking as seen in the Church today is a fairly recent phenomenon in Christianity. It came about in four waves. The 1st wave of tongue speaking started around 1901 and was founded in the traditional Pentecostal movement by Charles Parham of Bethel College, Kansas. The 2nd wave, neo-Pentecostalism or the Charismatic movement entered most Churches in the early 1960’s in Van Nuys, California, under Dennis Bennett, Rector of St Marks Episcopal (Anglican) Church. In ten years it spread to all major Protestant families of the world, reaching a total of 55 million people by 1990. It included the Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians, Lutherans, Roman Catholics and many others. The 3rd wave, the Catholic Charismatic Renewal movement started in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, in 1967 among students and faculty of DuQuesne University, and by 1993 it touched the lives of over 100 million Catholics in over 238 nations. The 4th wave of speaking in tongues, the Evangelicals started in 1981 at Fuller Theological Seminary with John Wimber. By 1990, 33 million in the world were moving in signs and wonders, though they play down labels such as “Pentecostal” and “Charismatic”.

Speaking in tongues as we see it today did not come about as a result of studying the Bible. It just out of the blue happened. It should be of extreme concern to all Christians, because as already shown, it is not uniquely a Christian practice by any means. Various studies have revealed that speaking in tongues is present in non-Christian religions all around the world. It is practiced in China, Japan, Korea, Malaysia, Indonesia, Siberia, Arabia, Burma, and Arctic regions just to name a few. Glossolalia is found among the Eskimos, Japanese séances in Hokkaido, in a small cult led by Genji Yanagide of Moji City, the shamans in Ethiopia in the zar cult and various spirits in Haitian Voodoo and is also found extensively in African tribal religions.

 

[sherri]

Dude, I couldn't care less what Tom, Dick or Harry say about speaking in tongues. I'm only interested in what the bible says about it. Tom, Dick and Harry say a lot of things.

 

[Audiomechanic]

Actually, Tom, Dick, and Harry make a good point and that is actual history and not just someone's opinion. I've researched it further and found more sources with the same historic info. Some of that above could be taken as opinion and that's ok. Most of it is recorded.

Here's another interesting thing to note about it: Praying in the Spirit is not just procticed by Christians. Far from it actually. From the Wiccan to Voodoo, many different religions practice the exact same thing (at least to someone looking in from the outside, the differences are few).

It's definately good and prefered to know what the Bible says about something, but in cases where the Bible is disputed (like this one), it is good to look also into recorded current events and history for answers.

Here's another resource:
http://www.spirithome.com/tongues1.html

Back to the Bible:

I have read and re-read 1 Cor 14 and the only verse that I question, is the one you mentioned. 1 Cor 14:2. I'll give you points to your argument on that one but I'm not done researching yet. Posting directly from the ESV text:

Prophecy and Tongues

14:1 Pursue love, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy. 2 For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit. 3 On the other hand, the one who prophesies speaks to people for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation. 4 The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church. 5 Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be built up.
6 Now, brothers,[1] if I come to you speaking in tongues, how will I benefit you unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or teaching? 7 If even lifeless instruments, such as the flute or the harp, do not give distinct notes, how will anyone know what is played? 8 And if the bugle gives an indistinct sound, who will get ready for battle? 9 So with yourselves, if with your tongue you utter speech that is not intelligible, how will anyone know what is said? For you will be speaking into the air. 10 There are doubtless many different languages in the world, and none is without meaning, 11 but if I do not know the meaning of the language, I will be a foreigner to the speaker and the speaker a foreigner to me. 12 So with yourselves, since you are eager for manifestations of the Spirit, strive to excel in building up the church.
13 Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue should pray for the power to interpret. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful. 15 What am I to do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my mind also; I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will sing with my mind also. 16 Otherwise, if you give thanks with your spirit, how can anyone in the position of an outsider[2] say “Amen” to your thanksgiving when he does not know what you are saying? 17 For you may be giving thanks well enough, but the other person is not being built up. 18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. 19 Nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five words with my mind in order to instruct others, than ten thousand words in a tongue.
20 Brothers, do not be children in your thinking. Be infants in evil, but in your thinking be mature. 21 In the Law it is written, “By people of strange tongues and by the lips of foreigners will I speak to this people, and even then they will not listen to me, says the Lord.” 22 Thus tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers, while prophecy is a sign[3] not for unbelievers but for believers. 23 If, therefore, the whole church comes together and all speak in tongues, and outsiders or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are out of your minds? 24 But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or outsider enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all, 25 the secrets of his heart are disclosed, and so, falling on his face, he will worship God and declare that God is really among you.
Orderly Worship

26 What then, brothers? When you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. Let all things be done for building up. 27 If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret. 28 But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silent in church and speak to himself and to God. 29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others weigh what is said. 30 If a revelation is made to another sitting there, let the first be silent. 31 For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all be encouraged, 32 and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets. 33 For God is not a God of confusion but of peace.
As in all the churches of the saints, 34 the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. 35 If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.
36 Or was it from you that the word of God came? Or are you the only ones it has reached? 37 If anyone thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord. 38 If anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized. 39 So, my brothers, earnestly desire to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. 40 But all things should be done decently and in order.

I'm coming back with more but I posted the Bible for the sake of quoting and organizing my thoughts (because my heads a mess and I need a filing cabinet or something).

 

[sherri]

Well nobody is going to twist your arm up your back to speak in tongues. The bible states very clearly that it's a gift of the holy spirit.

If you think it's a work of the devil regardless of the fact that the bible says very clearly otherwise, then that's your problem. And your loss.

 

[Rhododendron]

Ok, to set up my question, I am Baptist and Southern Baptist at that. I went to a friend's church a couple of weeks ago and felt pretty good about the worship (the music rocked!) but then the pastor instructed everyone to speak in their "prayer language." The entire worship center erupted in simultanious babble and it really freaked me out! It felt deeper than just being creeped out by everyone speaking a different language in monotone, it felt like the Holy Spirit was telling me that what was occurring was really wrong!

I did some research in the Word and on the internet and I cannot find any supporting evidence that speaking in tongues, or glossolalia, is supported by the Bible unless it's used with no more than two people (with a translator) for the benefit of non believers and the tongue being spoken is not an unknown babble but a known world language (or a not so well known one).

NOTICE: This is NOT a argument! DO NOT pick on religions or insult people from other religions. This is simply a discussion.

WOW. That's pretty freaky. If you feel like going back (probably not, and I totally understand) I'd ask the preacher where in the bible it talks about speaking in tongues.

Something similar happened to me and COMPLETELY embarrassed and freaked me out. I was at this church that I had been to for a few months, and at the end of the service, they ask everyone to close their eyes and then they ask questions like "who needs healing for this or that" and then they pray at the front anonymously (like the people who raise their hands don't go up to the front, we all open our eyes after and the pastors and all of us would pray for these people, even though we didn't know who they were. It was totally confidential.)

So anyway, the pastors at the end of this one service asked us again to close our eyes, and asked if anyone out there hadn't yet received the holy spirit and spoken in tongues. I raised my hand, and then the pastors told everyone to open their eyes, and then they came RIGHT OVER TO ME and started yelling at me in tongues and asked me to do the same. I was SOOOOO confused and embarassed. The entire church was watching me. I felt really, really scared and creeped out, so I can definately relate to you, and thank you so much for posting this thread, as I am very curious about the whole "speaking in tongues" issue and what it's all about.

(no, I'm not going back there and asking them where it talks about tongues in the bible LOL! WAY too weirded out by them)

 

[sherri]

I'd ask the preacher where in the bible it talks about speaking in tongues.

1 Cor 14

I sometimes wonder how many people who go to church are going to stand before God one day and he's going to ask, 'did you read your bible'? And they'll go. - 'Hmmm, well sometimes. Why? Was it important'??

 

[Rhododendron]

1 Cor 14

I sometimes wonder how many people who go to church are going to stand before God one day and he's going to ask, 'did you read your bible'? And they'll go. - 'Hmmm, well sometimes. Why? Was it important'??

Sure, but I also wonder what He'll say to those who instead of trying to help and encourage their fellow Christians, judge them and make them feel stupid. I think He might have a few words for someone like that too.

Matthew 7:1-5

 

[Rhododendron]

Sure, but I also wonder what He'll say to those who instead of trying to help and encourage their fellow Christians, judge them and make them feel stupid. I think He might have a few words for someone like that too.

Matthew 7:1-5

To add to what I said, I haven't been to church in a few years. It's something I personally struggle with. I certainly hope another witty, judgemental comment is not comming my way. A Christian who is strong in the Lord will encourage those who struggle, not bring them down.

 

[MarkEvan]

Although it is a mature christians job to "exhort those who struggle," this sometimes does not take the form we think it should. Take a look at how Jesus rebukes the disciples, "how long must I remain with you," this is quite a cruel thing to say in some senses, He`s almost calling them daft, yet we know that Jesus is perfect in love. A lot of the time a rebuke is exactly that, and it isn`t easy to take, but as proverbs says "the wounds of a friend are better than the kisses of an enemy."

Therefore as a friend I would exhort you to get to know the word, this is after all how God has chosen to reveal himself, and it is through our applying the word to our lives through love, that we grow. Find others who also wan`t to read and study the word for the right reasons (that is because they love God) and sit around His word together.

Mark

 

[Rhododendron]

Although it is a mature christians job to "exhort those who struggle," this sometimes does not take the form we think it should. Take a look at how Jesus rebukes the disciples, "how long must I remain with you," this is quite a cruel thing to say in some senses, He`s almost calling them daft, yet we know that Jesus is perfect in love. A lot of the time a rebuke is exactly that, and it isn`t easy to take, but as proverbs says "the wounds of a friend are better than the kisses of an enemy."

Therefore as a friend I would exhort you to get to know the word, this is after all how God has chosen to reveal himself, and it is through our applying the word to our lives through love, that we grow. Find others who also wan`t to read and study the word for the right reasons (that is because they love God) and sit around His word together.

Mark

You're absolutely right, I need to go to church and get into His word more. But don't you think that when someone is genuinely curious and asking questions, that you encourage them? Nothing turns a person off more than one bad experience with Christianity to another. I'm not turning my back because of you or anyone on here. I am week in these areas, but for someone else who may be weaker and all they need is for someone to make them feel bad, and you could be one of the causes of why they have strayed. That is NOT our job. We are to lift each other up and bring each other closer TO the Lord. BE CAREFUL who you rebuke! Keeping those in check are for those of whom you KNOW their backgrounds... possibly even only good friends. People you KNOW this will help. A young Christian who doesn't really understand why they have accepted Jesus into their hearts, but wants to learn will be greatly discouraged! Your best bet on these forums since you don't know anyone, is to encourage. God will NEVER frown on you if you encourage over rebuking.

 

[fieldmouse3]

I always thought that speaking in tongues was a gift of the Holy Spirit that not everyone has, but when I went to the membership class at my church, I was one of only two people who had never had that happen to them. I was surprised, but even MORE so when I was instructed on how to make it happen, as if it was required. That's the one thing I don't like about my church!

 

[sherri]

You're absolutely right, I need to go to church and get into His word more. But don't you think that when someone is genuinely curious and asking questions, that you encourage them? Nothing turns a person off more than one bad experience with Christianity to another. I'm not turning my back because of you or anyone on here. I am week in these areas, but for someone else who may be weaker and all they need is for someone to make them feel bad, and you could be one of the causes of why they have strayed. That is NOT our job. We are to lift each other up and bring each other closer TO the Lord. BE CAREFUL who you rebuke! Keeping those in check are for those of whom you KNOW their backgrounds... possibly even only good friends. People you KNOW this will help. A young Christian who doesn't really understand why they have accepted Jesus into their hearts, but wants to learn will be greatly discouraged! Your best bet on these forums since you don't know anyone, is to encourage. God will NEVER frown on you if you encourage over rebuking.

You just made a rude comment - attacking (hello) a church that was doing what churchs are supposed to do (speak in tongues), and you got rebuffed for it. And now 'we're' (ok me) are the bad guys.

Sorry, but I see you being the one at fault here. We're christ followers and if you write other christians off as 'freaky' and 'weird' then you're going to get shot down at some stage or other. And deservedly so.

Treat others the way you wish to be treated is what it's all about. Not 'treat me nicely because I'm still finding my way but allow me to be rude and judgmental about you.'

 

[underthesouthercross]

dont worry about ti bro if its speaking in the spirit its cool, but its weird that you feel a bit weird about it though

 

[Rhododendron]

You just made a rude comment - attacking (hello) a church that was doing what churchs are supposed to do (speak in tongues), and you got rebuffed for it. And now 'we're' (ok me) are the bad guys.

Sorry, but I see you being the one at fault here. We're christ followers and if you write other christians off as 'freaky' and 'weird' then you're going to get shot down at some stage or other. And deservedly so.

Treat others the way you wish to be treated is what it's all about. Not 'treat me nicely because I'm still finding my way but allow me to be rude and judgmental about you.'

I had a frightening and deciving experience, as nothing was explained to me before, during, or after the experience. I came to this thread to support, and also ask questions myself, as I don't feel right about the issue, but would like to as I am supposed to by God. I would like to become more like Jesus. I have much to learn.

If I remember correctly, you were the one who commented rudely about my post, not the other way around. I am here to learn, not get picked on by people with attitude problems. I don't want to play this game. Lets just move on and get back on topic, ok? Thank you.

 

[Rhododendron]

If there was no interpreter, what they did wasn't right.

Really? Are you always supposed to have one when you do it?

 

[MarkEvan]

You're absolutely right, I need to go to church and get into His word more. But don't you think that when someone is genuinely curious and asking questions, that you encourage them? Nothing turns a person off more than one bad experience with Christianity to another. I'm not turning my back because of you or anyone on here. I am week in these areas, but for someone else who may be weaker and all they need is for someone to make them feel bad, and you could be one of the causes of why they have strayed. That is NOT our job. We are to lift each other up and bring each other closer TO the Lord. BE CAREFUL who you rebuke! Keeping those in check are for those of whom you KNOW their backgrounds... possibly even only good friends. People you KNOW this will help. A young Christian who doesn't really understand why they have accepted Jesus into their hearts, but wants to learn will be greatly discouraged! Your best bet on these forums since you don't know anyone, is to encourage. God will NEVER frown on you if you encourage over rebuking.

Although I know that a lot of people take the idea that the past is important, I don`t...never have done never will do.....although I believe that it is something we can look back and learn from, I don`t believe that it can be used as an excuse. Paul says that "therefore forgetting what lies behind we press on for the upward calling of christ," peoples past should not matter when it comes to sound Spiritual advice, so long as the person whos giving the advice is pure in intention then that advice should be heeded reguardless of the pain it may cause from peoples past, that is what it means to "forgeting what lies behind."
I personally believe that God will frown on you if you encourage over rebuking in the case of sin in someones life, but that was not in the original question so i`ll leave it.

Mark

Please understand, I am not rebuking you but trying to word it in the best and most effective way that I can see.

 

[sherri]

If I remember correctly, you were the one who commented rudely about my post, not the other way around.

You made mocking, uninformed and stupid comments about something you don't understand and I answered you. Decieving?? You came to this thread for support??? Give me a break. You just laughed at them and wrote them off. I gave you the reference. Did you read it? No. Instead you just justify yourself.

[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] about other christians in a public forum and expect to be answered.