Global warming devastates America

[Loudmouth]

Basic cold, hard realities...

CO2 is a minuscule fraction of greenhouse gases on this planet and CO2 created by human activity is a tiny fraction of that. There is no sane reason to worry about C
O2.

The most major greenhouse gas on this planet by far is water vapor. For some reason, democrats don't yet seem to have gotten psyched enough yet to try to outlaw, ban, or restrict water vapor.

Another page out of the propoganda from big industry and politicians.

What matters is the residence time of the greenhouse gas. Any single molecule of water vapor has a residence time of about 2 weeks within the atmosphere. You may have heard of this little thing called precipitation. It's made of water vapor.

Have you ever seen carbon dioxide precipitate out of the atmosphere? You haven't, because it doesn't. It stays in the atmosphere with residence time measured in decades, not days.

Therefore, water vapor can not drive long term climatic change. At best, it can only drive short lived and local weather patterns. Due to the long residence time of CO2 in the atmosphere it can drive long term climate change.

CO2 is an absolutely essential ingredient of our living world. Without it, every tree and flowering planet on Earth would die.

Doesn't change the fact that increasing atmospheric CO2 traps more heat.

Whenever something makes no sense or cannot be followed logically, the basic principle is to follow the money ("cui bono"). Algor was going to become a billionaire with that Chicago carbon exchange and others were seeing money in it as well.

How you missed the trail leading to Saudi Arabia, Exxon, and BP is beyond me.

 

[gungasnake]

Another basic reality: The hero of this entire sorry tale is Vladimir Putin. Putin apparently got a number of Russia's best hackers in a room and said something like

Guys, I'm not gonna wreck Russia's economy over a bunch of junk science. I want you to blast your way into that East Anglia CU email database and spread to the four winds whatever you might find there.

That was the basic genesis of "ClimateGate" (www.climategate.com) and the huge scandal of those East Anglia emails.

Putin The Greatest Leader on The Planet - YouTube

Putin is clearly the best ruler Russia has ever had since Tsar Peter and Barrack Obama is just as clearly the worst ruler any advanced state has ever had since Nero. Some would call that bad timing on our part...

 

[gungasnake]

Blog: Top Saudi lets the cat out of the bag

Cui Bono? Who's taking Saudi money for all this happy "green(TM)" stuff and anti-US-energy agitation??

 

[Loudmouth]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't everything (including transparent glass) absorb, reflect and refract light?

This little video may help:

Infrared & Glass - YouTube

It's not the best video, but it does show one thing. The hand is always visible through the glass using visible light. However, the hand disappears behind the glass when using infrared. This is because glass lets wavelengths of light in the visible spectrum through, but blocks IR. You only start to see the hand when it is pressed directly on to the glass, and the hand you do see is actually the glass being heated by the hand. A good example of the effect in everyday life is how hot the inside of your car gets in the summer. This is due to the greenhouse effect.

Oxygen and nitrogen let visible AND infrared light through. Carbon dioxide lets visible light through but not IR.

Educate me: how is the sun's light/heat reaction with a rock on the ground different from the reaction with the gas carbon dioxide?

When something absorbs a photon of light it re-emits a photon at a lower wavelength. The old style black light effects are a good example. When you shine a black light at certain objects you get a bright color back. The black light is putting out light in the short wavelength UV spectrum, and the light you get back is more towards the middle of the visual spectrum at a lower wavelength.

This is what is happening with the Earth. It is absorbing light at shorter wavelengths that pass through CO2 just fine. The Earth re-emits that light in the longer wavelength IR spectra which CO2 reflects back at the Earth.

I said some scientists have been caught lying, which is common knowledge, and it seems like you're trying to make me look as if I said all scientists who seriously study the subject are liars. No, of course I don't think that.

Perhaps you could cite specific examples, and how it discredits the entire science of climate change.

 

[Loudmouth]

Another basic reality: The hero of this entire sorry tale is Vladimir Putin. Putin apparently got a number of Russia's best hackers in a room and said something like



That was the basic genesis of "ClimateGate" (www.climategate.com) and the huge scandal of those East Anglia emails.


Putin is clearly the best ruler Russia has ever had since Tsar Peter and Barrack Obama is just as clearly the worst ruler any advanced state has ever had since Nero. Some would call that bad timing on our part...

And here come the red herrings.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Again, you are buying into the propoganda being spread by big money interests and politicians.

Do you think scientists are really lying about the basic physics of carbon dioxide trapping heat in our atmosphere? This science was settled in the 1800's, for crying out loud.

AAh, I think he was referring to the big kerfuffle over the use of the word "trick" in one email.

That word is a common slang for "mathematical shortcut". For example the problem I submitted for the EU people uses an interesting "trick" to solve it. Actually it is a very basic idea in physics. It turns out that the way it simplifies the problem leads to an amazingly simple answer.

People who received those hacked, aka "stolen", emails focused on the word "trick" and not on how it was used.

 

[Loudmouth]

AAh, I think he was referring to the big kerfuffle over the use of the word "trick" in one email.

That word is a common slang for "mathematical shortcut". For example the problem I submitted for the EU people uses an interesting "trick" to solve it. Actually it is a very basic idea in physics. It turns out that the way it simplifies the problem leads to an amazingly simple answer.

People who received those hacked, aka "stolen", emails focused on the word "trick" and not on how it was used.

I was suspecting the same thing, but thought it would be more educational for Chesterton to learn through mistakes.

They weren't lying, and an independent investigation found that they weren't. What did happen is the very thing that Chesterton is against, but not by the people he suspects.

 

[Subduction Zone]

And here come the red herrings.

And let's not forget the hundreds of millions that Al Gore has made off of his investments.

Now I am no Al Gore fan. He was not the best messenger for AGW, and he may talk the talk but he definitely does not walk the walk. One thing he was not afraid of was to put his money where his mouth is. He invested his own money into business that would make out well if world governments started to do something about this problem and he is raking the money in from those investments.

Now can you blame the man for doing that?

 

[Loudmouth]

And let's not forget the hundreds of millions that Al Gore has made off of his investments.

Now I am no Al Gore fan. He was not the best messenger for AGW, and he may talk the talk but he definitely does not walk the walk. One thing he was not afraid of was to put his money where his mouth is. He invested his own money into business that would make out well if world governments started to do something about this problem and he is raking the money in from those investments.

Now can you blame the man for doing that?

Al Gore only relays the science. The scientists doing the work have already been paid before they collect the data, at least if they are on public grants. I would strongly suspect that if a scientist were able to produce strong scientific support for a lack of global warming they would garner as much, if not more grant money than those who keep finding evidence for global warming.

The agenda of scientists is the science.

 

[Subduction Zone]

My objection with Al Gore's approach is that since he is a politician he used a politician's methods. A lot of these ultimately blew up on him. He was right, but his methodology gave fuel to the deniers. For example he used photographs of polar bears, which will be threatened by AGW, and implied that they were in trouble right now. Polar bears are prolific swimmers and one of his shots of a bear that was implied was stuck at sea was only a hundred yards or less off shore. He knew how to immediately pluck at the strings of people's hearts, but sometimes when the details of how he did it came out people feel cheated.

That is why the denialist analyses of his movie did so well. Even though the bigger truth was not with them.

 

[Loudmouth]

My objection with Al Gore's approach is that since he is a politician he used a politician's methods. A lot of these ultimately blew up on him. He was right, but his methodology gave fuel to the deniers. For example he used photographs of polar bears, which will be threatened by AGW, and implied that they were in trouble right now. Polar bears are prolific swimmers and one of his shots of a bear that was implied was stuck at sea was only a hundred yards or less off shore. He knew how to immediately pluck at the strings of people's hearts, but sometimes when the details of how he did it came out people feel cheated.

That is why the denialist analyses of his movie did so well. Even though the bigger truth was not with them.

It is like the relationship between the engineer and the car salesman. You can build a great car, but that doesn't stop you from feeling dirty when the car salesman lies to the customer.

 

[USincognito]

Who's being a denialist now? Some scientists and their socio-politcal adherents have been caught lying. Why do people lie? Because they want others to believe what they want them to believe. Again, that doesn't necessarily disprove climate warming, but we all should have reason to be suspicious.

Are you talking about "Climategate"? Because that's a scandal that wasn't.

 

[USincognito]

That was the basic genesis of "ClimateGate" (www.climategate.com) and the huge scandal of those East Anglia emails.

Looks like someone hasn't been keeping up with the news. Not since 1997 with regard to the Neanderthal genome, and 2009 with regard to "Climategate".

 

[gungasnake]

William Connelley, the man with the poor-man's time machine:

Wikibullies at work. The National Post exposes broad trust issues over Wikipedia climate information | Watts Up With That?

A time machine is supposed to be something to let its owner change history. Cheapest/simplest way to do that is to get yourself ensconced as a Wikipedia sysadmin and eliminate all mention of the medieval climate optimum from upwards of 6000 wiki articles (he who controls the past controls the future...).

 

[gungasnake]

Again as we've seen, the ultimate beneficiary of all such activities is Saudo Arabia. Cui bono.....

 

[Chesterton]

Putin is clearly the best ruler Russia has ever had since Tsar Peter and Barrack Obama is just as clearly the worst ruler any advanced state has ever had since Nero. Some would call that bad timing on our part...

Yeah I guess it's not a bad time to be Russian. My dictator can beat up your dictator.

 

[AirPo]

Are you talking about "Climategate"? Because that's a scandal that wasn't.

You mean it's a fake war on global warming? FWOGW
Maybe a fake war on climate change? FWOCC

 

[Chesterton]

SCTV - Women Say the Darndest Things - YouTube

 

[gungasnake]

Yeah I guess it's not a bad time to be Russian. My dictator can beat up your dictator.

Recent Russian elections have been much more straight up and believable than ours have. Do actually believe there could be such a thing as a voting precinct around Philly in which Romney and Ryan don't get a single vote??

 

[gungasnake]

http://www.climategate.com

Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change

James Delingpole – Telegraph Blogs