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Global Flood Sediments

RickG

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There are several different views within the Creation Science community concerning sediments deposited by Noah's Flood. One idea suggests that the sedimentary strata in the geologic column represents those flood deposits. With that in mind, how thick would we expect those deposits to be?
 

JackRT

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There are several different views within the Creation Science community concerning sediments deposited by Noah's Flood. One idea suggests that the sedimentary strata in the geologic column represents those flood deposits. With that in mind, how thick would we expect those deposits to be?
 
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JackRT

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There may be several grains of truth to the flood mythology of Noah and similar mythologies from elsewhere in the ancient Middle East. About 25 years ago it was discovered (" Noah's Flood" by Ryan and Pitman) that in antiquity the Black Sea was a freshwater lake with a water level at least 155 meters (510 feet) below its present level. It was cut off from the Mediterranean Sea by a silt plug in the Straits of Bosporus. This plug broke through about 5600 BC. It created an immense waterfall whose sound was most likely audible for 100 or more miles. The Black Sea basin filled to its present level over a period of several weeks. It is estimated that the shore line advanced at the rate of a mile or more per day. For the people living around the lake it was a catastrophe of immense magnitude. It was likely the single most memorable flood in all of human history. The racial memory of this event probably inspired the Gilgamesh epic which in turn inspired the Noah narrative in the Bible. The evidence for this flood is scientifically solid. This prompted the National Geographic Society to finance an underwater search along the ancient shoreline for evidence of pre-flood human habitation. This search has been successful! A settlement has been found at a depth of 90 meters approximately 12 miles off the coast of Turkey. It is in a remarkable state of preservation because it is located in an area of the Black Sea where the water is completely devoid of oxygen with the effect that biological decomposition does not take place. This means that wooden artifacts such as tools, planks, housing beams etc are preserved intact. What is also quite amazing is that while there is solid scientific evidence for this local flood some 7600 YBP, there is no evidence at all for a worldwide flood just 4300 YBP. One would think that a more recent, more catastrophic event would have wiped out evidence of the earlier Black Sea event.
 
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juvenissun

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There are several different views within the Creation Science community concerning sediments deposited by Noah's Flood. One idea suggests that the sedimentary strata in the geologic column represents those flood deposits. With that in mind, how thick would we expect those deposits to be?

The one at my place is about 3000 ft.
So?
 
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klutedavid

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There may be several grains of truth to the flood mythology of Noah and similar mythologies from elsewhere in the ancient Middle East. About 25 years ago it was discovered (" Noah's Flood" by Ryan and Pitman) that in antiquity the Black Sea was a freshwater lake with a water level at least 155 meters (510 feet) below its present level. It was cut off from the Mediterranean Sea by a silt plug in the Straits of Bosporus. This plug broke through about 5600 BC. It created an immense waterfall whose sound was most likely audible for 100 or more miles. The Black Sea basin filled to its present level over a period of several weeks. It is estimated that the shore line advanced at the rate of a mile or more per day. For the people living around the lake it was a catastrophe of immense magnitude. It was likely the single most memorable flood in all of human history. The racial memory of this event probably inspired the Gilgamesh epic which in turn inspired the Noah narrative in the Bible. The evidence for this flood is scientifically solid. This prompted the National Geographic Society to finance an underwater search along the ancient shoreline for evidence of pre-flood human habitation. This search has been successful! A settlement has been found at a depth of 90 meters approximately 12 miles off the coast of Turkey. It is in a remarkable state of preservation because it is located in an area of the Black Sea where the water is completely devoid of oxygen with the effect that biological decomposition does not take place. This means that wooden artifacts such as tools, planks, housing beams etc are preserved intact. What is also quite amazing is that while there is solid scientific evidence for this local flood some 7600 YBP, there is no evidence at all for a worldwide flood just 4300 YBP. One would think that a more recent, more catastrophic event would have wiped out evidence of the earlier Black Sea event.
Hello Jack.

I came across the same information, very interesting.
 
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amanuensis63

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How would you know to look for "Flood Sediments" to begin with?

1. Globally correlatable with no (zero) contemporary subaerial deposits (ie no dunes anywhere during this time).

2. Bioceonoses of animals that lived concurrently which we never see. For example: dinosaurs and dogs trilobites and rabbits, etc.

That would be a good start.
 
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amanuensis63

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To me, you will never win with your "smart" question.

It's a simple question, Juve. Really, really simple. If people believe in the Noachian Flood (which many YEC DO explicitly) then how thick should the layer be?

If one does not believe in the Noachian flood then there is no answer necessary.
 
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juvenissun

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It's a simple question, Juve. Really, really simple. If people believe in the Noachian Flood (which many YEC DO explicitly) then how thick should the layer be?

If one does not believe in the Noachian flood then there is no answer necessary.

You are asking a question which you can not evaluate the answer.
If my answer is: 3 meters. Then what would you say?
It is not simple at all. It is extremely difficult.
 
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juvenissun

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"There are several different views within the Creation Science community concerning sediments deposited by Noah's Flood. One idea suggests that the sedimentary strata in the geologic column represents those flood deposits. With that in mind, how thick would we expect those deposits to be?"
3 meters.
How do you evaluate this answer?

The BASIC concept you should learn here: the whole column only suggests the sequence of sedimentation, not the quantity of sedimentation. You asked a wrong question.
 
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amanuensis63

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You are asking a question which you can not evaluate the answer.
If my answer is: 3 meters. Then what would you say?
It is not simple at all. It is extremely difficult.

LOL. Sorry no. It's not difficult. I'd say you answered the question when you said 3 meters. What would I say to that answer? I'd say "Whatever". I don't believe in the literal Flood so I don't have to assess your value in any way. IF, however, you feel the number is correct then there are other questions like "why" do you believe that.

But it's pretty easy overall.
 
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RickG

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3 meters.
How do you evaluate this answer?

The BASIC concept you should learn here: the whole column only suggests the sequence of sedimentation, not the quantity of sedimentation. You asked a wrong question.

Each sequence of the column has a thickness. Yes, I understand that depending upon the location of the column the thickness varies. There are non-conformaties as well. If the sedimentary rock in the geologic column was deposited by the flood as some creation science arguments say, what would be the maximum thickness of sediment left by the flood? That is all I am asking.
 
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[serious]

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3 meters.
How do you evaluate this answer?

The BASIC concept you should learn here: the whole column only suggests the sequence of sedimentation, not the quantity of sedimentation. You asked a wrong question.
We determine what the thickness of the sediment actually is. You've made a testable prediction.
 
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juvenissun

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Each sequence of the column has a thickness. Yes, I understand that depending upon the location of the column the thickness varies. There are non-conformaties as well. If the sedimentary rock in the geologic column was deposited by the flood as some creation science arguments say, what would be the maximum thickness of sediment left by the flood? That is all I am asking.

You did not ask the "maximum" thickness. It is NOT what you asked in the OP.

Do you know what would determine the maximum thickness? It is certainly not the amount of available sediments. So, your modified question is again, not to the point.

Do you think the sediments could fill up the Mariana trench? (would this question give you another piece of ammunition to ridicule creationist?)
 
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juvenissun

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We determine what the thickness of the sediment actually is. You've made a testable prediction.

Geology is not a science which you used to. My suggestion is NOT testable. I said 3 meters thick. Any of the test results, > 3 meters; = 3 meters; or < 3 meters won't tell you anything about my suggestion. You need to use natural data to evaluate other natural data.
 
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RickG

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Five years before going into full retirement, I decided to leave my nearly 30 years of employment in private industry as a research chemist to teach in the public school system. Many of you will remember during the Bush administration the "No Child Left Behind Act" was implemented. What this did was to allow "Special Needs" students to enter the main classroom where they had not been before. This of course required teachers who did not specialize in "Special Education" to obtain a specific level of special education certification.

Looking back over some of the posts in the thread, I see the need to reapply some of those past acquired skills in special education in order to communicate more effectively with those who may have trouble understanding the question posed in the OP. So, what I will do is re-post the OP and break it down into smaller areas with more explanation as to what is being asked.

Here's the OP as originally presented:

"There are several different views within the Creation Science community concerning sediments deposited by Noah's Flood. One idea suggests that the sedimentary strata in the geologic column represents those flood deposits. With that in mind, how thick would we expect those deposits to be?"


Now, let's look at each sentence individually. Here's the first sentence:

"There are several different views within the Creation Science community concerning sediments deposited by Noah's Flood."

In stating that there are several different views in the creation science community concerning sediments deposited by Noah's flood, that means that there is more than just one one view, idea, or opinion about those sedimentary deposits. By sedimentary deposits, I am referring to suspended particles and debris that are left behind after the flood water receded.

Now, here's the second sentence:

"One idea suggests that the sedimentary strata in the geologic column represents those flood deposits."

The key part of this sentence is with the first two words, "one idea". Remember in the first sentence it was stated that there are several views, or as I explained, ideas or opinions. So, the second sentence is asking us to focus on one specific idea. That idea, of course, is stated to be "the sedimentary strata in the geologic column". Thus, the one idea to focus on is that the sedimentary deposits left by the flood are those that make up the sedimentary strata of the geologic column.

Now, the third sentence:

"With that in mind, how thick would we expect those deposits to be?"


Again, the emphasis is to focus on the specifically stated idea that the flood deposits left by the flood are those which make up the geologic column. The last part of the third sentence asks "how thick would we expect those deposits to be". So, we are looking at only those sediments that are contained within the geologic column, and we are asked how thick would we expect those deposits to be.

Now, one thing that is not stated is how thick the geologic column is. The reason for this of course is due to the fact that its thickness varies greatly from location to location as well to the type of sediment. That is the reason for asking for "your" opinion as to how thick would all those sedimentary deposits be.

Now, not stated in the OP, I will clarify my reason for the topic of this thread. Once we have determined a general depth/thickness that most of us can agree upon, I wish to discuss the merits and/or problems with that specific "idea" of flood deposits. Other creation science flood deposit ideas are not part of this thread.
 
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juvenissun

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Now, not stated in the OP, I will clarify my reason for the topic of this thread. Once we have determined a general depth/thickness that most of us can agree upon, I wish to discuss the merits and/or problems with that specific "idea" of flood deposits. Other creation science flood deposit ideas are not part of this thread.

<Staff Edit>
There should be a very large area (or region) where the thickness should be zero, if not negative.
You would never get any agreement on the thickness.
 
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