If there was a Global Flood, whree did all the water come from, and go to. The Ice caps dont hold enough water to flood hte entire planet.
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Perhaps everybody (including geologists) need to look at this from the point of view of a world wide flood just not a local flood as we see today. Certainly there would be some correlation but there would also be some very important differences. One thing is that it should be noted that the water rose to a point that the highest parts on earth were covered and stayed that way for some time.HRE said:A visual:
That, A4C, is an ancient riverbed. You can even see the sloping sides that were cut open when a canyon was carved across the old riverbed. Observe the huge boulders on the bottom. Now, a closer image:
See that, in just a few feet, you have a steady gradient from Large rocks to pebbles, and then finer grains. This is what we see in flood plains and riverbeds.
On the stratigraphic column as a whole, though, grain sizes can do this:
Medium
Very fine
Fine
Mesh
Congolmerate
Medium Fine
Microscopic
Congolmerate
Pre-Cambrian Metamorphic
With rapid changes and back-and-forth fluctuations between very fine grains, fine grains, coarse grains, and back to microscopic grains in only a hundred feet, something that simply does not occur during a flood.
Glarus Overthrust: At Glarus Overthrust of Switzerland, the arrangement of strata should proceed: Permian, Jurassic, Eocene. However, it occurs exactly the opposite. It is layered: Eocene, Jurassic, Permian. This suggests that, in this 21 mile formation, the top 3 layers completely flipped over. Evolutionists maintain that this is overthrust, however, one must wonder just what kind of activity could cause 21 miles of deep sediment to flip over, on to it's back, and end up so beautifully layered and appearing so undisturbed.
Heart Mountain and Sheep Mountain: At Heart Mountain and Sheep Mountain of Wyoming we see the impossible occur. These mountains are capped with Paleozoic limestone and are followed by Jurassic and Tertiary sediments. Not only is this once again completely backwards, but lieing directly beneath the Teritary sediments is more Paleozoic limestone!
Oops!: The year is 1970, in Guryul Ravine, Kashmir. Permian brachiopods are found mixed with lower triassic pelecypods. Though the two were supposed to be separated by millions of years, they were found in the same sediments. Evolutionists never attempted to explain this phenomenon. They simply ignored it. Funny how they ignore what they can't prove!
No, no I can't.Jet Black said:can you explain the four million layers of sediment found in the green river formation, the forty thousand layers found in sugietsu, and tens of thousands found in European lakes, and why the amounts of C14 in these layers correlate with the predicted C14 dates from radiaoactive decay, and why these dates match up with tree ring dating and why these dates also match up with ice core dating, buth in terms of numbers of ice core layers and also the trapped c14 content, yet again?
A fine example of a ww flood and its aftermath - the relocation of sediment due to receeding waters.Glarus Overthrust: At Glarus Overthrust of Switzerland, the arrangement of strata should proceed: Permian, Jurassic, Eocene. However, it occurs exactly the opposite. It is layered: Eocene, Jurassic, Permian. This suggests that, in this 21 mile formation, the top 3 layers completely flipped over. Evolutionists maintain that this is overthrust, however, one must wonder just what kind of activity could cause 21 miles of deep sediment to flip over, on to it's back, and end up so beautifully layered and appearing so undisturbed.
Heart Mountain and Sheep Mountain: At Heart Mountain and Sheep Mountain of Wyoming we see the impossible occur. These mountains are capped with Paleozoic limestone and are followed by Jurassic and Tertiary sediments. Not only is this once again completely backwards, but lieing directly beneath the Teritary sediments is more Paleozoic limestone!
Oops!: The year is 1970, in Guryul Ravine, Kashmir. Permian brachiopods are found mixed with lower triassic pelecypods. Though the two were supposed to be separated by millions of years, they were found in the same sediments. Evolutionists never attempted to explain this phenomenon. They simply ignored it. Funny how they ignore what they can't prove!
It is not unexpected that conditions that were laid down in a flood but interpreted by a group of people who dont believe in a flood will come to the same conclusion. This does not negate the fact that there was a flood and without it there would not have been the fossil fuel deposits that is so eagerly sort by those who blatantly disregard its origins.GoSeminoles! said:When energy companies beging spending billions of dollars searching for oil and gas using creationist geology rather than conventional geology, then creationists will have something scientific to crow about. When it's time to put money where the mouth is, energy companies go with proven science, not myth-based pseudo-science.
That actually explained nothing at all, especially not how you can have a distinct fossilized river insider other layers cross-cut by a new canyon. You, in your 'explanation', are suggesting that sediments were built up, and then the top layers were shifted away. This has absolutely no relevance to my monster of a post pertaining the canyons, where the challenge lie. Please, explain that scenario (especially the footprints and cross-cutting) using a global flood, one piece at a time, like I did. This is what I ask of you.Perhaps everybody (including geologists) need to look at this from the point of view of a world wide flood just not a local flood as we see today. Certainly there would be some correlation but there would also be some very important differences. One thing is that it should be noted that the water rose to a point that the highest parts on earth were covered and stayed that way for some time.
Then as the waters receeded the sediments that were only recently got laid down would now be subject to catastrophic erosion relocating over areas which also had got washed out. Now this element of the receeding water is a little different to the initial layering and could account for the apparent abnormalities that you refer to.
Here's an idea. After you visit someone's tripod site on this that provides literally no detail or possible explanation, why don't you just google the term? 'Glarus Overthurst' yielded this scientific paper on the orogeny, which explains it exactly as I expected: a fault thrust.Glarus Overthrust: At Glarus Overthrust of Switzerland, the arrangement of strata should proceed: Permian, Jurassic, Eocene. However, it occurs exactly the opposite. It is layered: Eocene, Jurassic, Permian. This suggests that, in this 21 mile formation, the top 3 layers completely flipped over. Evolutionists maintain that this is overthrust, however, one must wonder just what kind of activity could cause 21 miles of deep sediment to flip over, on to it's back, and end up so beautifully layered and appearing so undisturbed.
Here is an example image of a severe fault thrust, similar what we observe in the entirety of the Alps (where the Glarus Overthrust is found). Granted, it isn't exactly the same, but I'm working with paint here, not Photoshop. Your site must have simply forgot to mention the enormous fault scarp and fault line easily visible to even airplanes at the location. Innocent mistake, huh?Cited Paper said:
GLARUS OVERTHRUST
During OligoceneMiocene continent-continent collision, passivemargin
sediments of the southern European shelf were involved in
deformation to form the Helvetic foreland fold-and-thrust belt. In the
Glarus Alps (Fig. 1), Permian Verrucano red beds (d18O 5 10) were
thrust northward over Mesozoic carbonates (d18O 5 25) and Tertiary
flysch series (d18O 5 19). The thrust fault is continuously lined by
an enigmatic 15-m-thick layer of Lochseitenkalk mylonite (Schmid,
1975). Metamorphism ranges from anchizone in the north and in the
footwall flysch to lower greenschist facies in the south and in the Verrucano
hanging wall (Rahn et al., 1995). The anchizone-epizone boundary
(3006 30 8C isograd) is offset along the Glarus thrust by ;2 km
to the north (Rahn et al., 1995) as the result of postpeak metamorphic
thrusting between 25 and 20 Ma (Hunziker et al., 1986).
Again...you expend the effort to find these sites, why don't you expend the effort to even see if there is an explanation? Again, someone with a basic knowledge of geology can read that description and assertain what is occurring. Sheep Mountain is part of the Laramide orogeny, a fault line that is actively making new overthrusts. When an overthrust occurs, you get both an anticline and a sincline. Sheep Mountain is a textbook example of a fault-thrust anticline. Heart Mountain is very similar.Heart Mountain and Sheep Mountain: At Heart Mountain and Sheep Mountain of Wyoming we see the impossible occur. These mountains are capped with Paleozoic limestone and are followed by Jurassic and Tertiary sediments. Not only is this once again completely backwards, but lieing directly beneath the Teritary sediments is more Paleozoic limestone!
That assertion is actually very offensive. Ignored it because they can't explain it? How about the author was too much of a self-pluming **** to even venture and see if there was an explanation. A simple Google search turns up plenty of research.Oops!: The year is 1970, in Guryul Ravine, Kashmir. Permian brachiopods are found mixed with lower triassic pelecypods. Though the two were supposed to be separated by millions of years, they were found in the same sediments. Evolutionists never attempted to explain this phenomenon. They simply ignored it. Funny how they ignore what they can't prove!
Then I would refer you back to my challenge:I can
Without the information that I asked for I would only be quessing about the footprints you are talking about. Please give me full details of where they were found and what is thought to have made them Were they found under rocks or what? Do you want me to give you an informed opinion or just a quess?HRE said:Please, explain that scenario (especially the footprints and cross-cutting) using a global flood, one piece at a time, like I did. This is what I ask of you.
I said, concerning the footprints, these facts:A4C said:Without the information that I asked for I would only be quessing about the footprints you are talking about. Please give me full details of where they were found and what is thought to have made them Were they found under rocks or what? Do you want me to give you an informed opinion or just a quess?
Are you serious? The river cross-cutting the strata. The canyon cross-cutting the river. Hint: go to page 2.A4C said:What cross cutting?
Say what?and how did the footprints appear in solid rock or layers of sediment at the bottom of oceans ( isn't that where the mountains were supposed to be pushed up from).
But would not the footprints have to be in mud for at least thousands of years until the next strata formed (according to the way I understand what old earthers think) If so do you realy think they would be there all that time. Usually footprints that I am familiar with wouldn't oulast the next downpour.HRE said:Footprints that we find are caused by dinosaurs stepping in mud that later hardens (bakes) before it fills in.
On the contrary the building up of flood waters in some areas could be quite a gentle process (much like filling up bath tub from a shower rose) However surrounding water movements could mix in sediments which settled in the footprints and the area . Finally the footprints could be under many layers of sediment and be uneffected by the process.HRE said:The global deluge you're talking about would leave footprints in soft mud that would immediately be washed away before filling or hardening.
you have just elegantly demonstrated that you do not understand the way old earthers think. This is why you should go and learn some geology before you pretend you have an answer to everything.A4C said:But would not the footprints have to be in mud for at least thousands of years until the next strata formed (according to the way I understand what old earthers think)
Sediments take a variable amount of time to form, depending on the type. Footprints in baked mud are often simply covered by layers of dust during a temporary drought, later solidifying. We observe this happening in our own time.A4C said:But would not the footprints have to be in mud for at least thousands of years until the next strata formed (according to the way I understand what old earthers think) If so do you realy think they would be there all that time. Usually footprints that I am familiar with wouldn't oulast the next downpour.
If you have footprints made in an liquid environment, they quickly lose their shape. If the ground had almost any water content, they would not form at all. If the layers on top were liquid, they would not form. We can observe this in our own time.A4C said:On the contrary the building up of flood waters in some areas could be quite a gentle process (much like filling up bath tub from a shower rose) However surrounding water movements could mix in sediments which settled in the footprints and the area . Finally the footprints could be under many layers of sediment and be uneffected by the process.
Agreed. Paleontologists do not suggest that footprints were usually sitting in the open elements for any great length of time. We find very few exposed, and those appear to be exceptions rather than the standard.A4C said:My point is that footprints are much more likely to survive fossilisation when coverage occurs quickly (say only days after they were put down) than they are if they had to withstand thousands (if not millions) of years facing natural elements
1. Sources?interesting about footprints, just watched "Time team" about Neolithic site on the River Severn coast in Wales. footprints in the mud from that period, but under water at every tide.
however also got a brief snippet from "discovery" about Chixulub crater and metoers, such was th impact that it created a mega tsunami, now the thing was this that they cited a "40Km high tsunami" which would have engulfed "nearly all the world" (paraphrase)from this impact.
Now correct me if I`m wrong but any evidence for this water based catastrophe in the geological column?
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