Giving to the Poor

[die2live]

Recently, I have had ahard time coping with our responsibility to give to the poor. The fact is, Jesus commanded us, or at the least implied that we should, sell all our possessions and give to the poor. If we look at the examples of Christians in the Bible, most notably in the early chapters of Acts, we see that is exaclty what they did. And we see this command many times elsewhere in the New Testament as well as the Old Testament.
Why then do Christians in first world countries, especially the US, continually disregard this explicit command. We think that our culture won't allow it, times have changed and it is no longer a possibility. I think that is only because of our unwillingness and selfishness and I think it's time for that to change.
What do you think?

 

[StevenL]

I think I pretty much agree with you.

 

[billwald]

Now days the govt takes money out of our pay for charity. Over half the income tax goes to welfare agencies and entitlements.

 

[porcupine]

Recently, I have had ahard time coping with our responsibility to give to the poor. The fact is, Jesus commanded us, or at the least implied that we should, sell all our possessions and give to the poor. If we look at the examples of Christians in the Bible, most notably in the early chapters of Acts, we see that is exaclty what they did. And we see this command many times elsewhere in the New Testament as well as the Old Testament.
Why then do Christians in first world countries, especially the US, continually disregard this explicit command. We think that our culture won't allow it, times have changed and it is no longer a possibility. I think that is only because of our unwillingness and selfishness and I think it's time for that to change.
What do you think?

Jesus told ONE person to do this. Note He did not tell Zacheus to do that. It is not a universal command. In Acts, it was entirely up to the individual and the people sold possessions "as others (within the church) had need" -- not just generally selling all.

That said, giving to the poor is mentioned a LOT in Scripture. Surprisingly, giving to "the church" as an organization is NOT. Even in Acts, the people laid the money at the apostles' feet for the purpose of distributing to the poor. No one did this for a "building program." In addition, they did not lay it at the feet of Caesar to redistribute as "welfare." (To comment on what billwald wrote, it cannot be "charity" if it is compulsory.)

 

[sinner/SAVED]

Now days the govt takes money out of our pay for charity. Over half the income tax goes to welfare agencies and entitlements.

You need to check your facts. Nearly as much money goes to paying interest on the federal debt as on low-income programs. Much more is spent on defence. Social Security and Medicare are not low-income programs, they are trust funds for everyone who pays into them. Very little if any state and local taxes fund low-income programs.

 

[Amongst the Flock]

It is called greed for worldly possessions which will one day burn up and we won't be taking them to heaven. You don't have to give all of your money away but the scriptures talk about real Christian humility comes when we can give and not expect anything in return. Just like God gave us his son to die for our sins by his grace and we can't give anything back to him. In order to make it to heaven we need to be sanctified with his son Jesus.

 

[die2live]

I would like to challenge the general concept that we should not give up all our possessions. Please understand that I'm not referring to anyone specifically. It is just a general statement.
Even if we are not called to sell all our possessions (which I see no biblical backing for) there are so many things we waste our money on needlessly. Eating out is one big thing. A lot of money is wasted on fast food and "fancy" food. TV is another thing. If half of the money made off of movies each year were given to the poor, we could effectively end world hunger. And, by the way, that's taking into consideration that not all of the money given makes it to the poor. Think of all the money "invested" in home improvement. I find it ironic that we are willing to spend thousands of dollars on redoing a room, when such an amount of money would feed those who basically live in boxes for ten years. It's not only the big things. It's all the little things we don't need to do that we waste our money on. There's far more than I've listed here. If all CHristians would give up the luxuries they've become dependant on, not only would world hunger end but we would also make a strong statement for Christ to our own nation. And such a statement as that would be priceless.

 

[porcupine]

I would like to challenge the general concept that we should not give up all our possessions. Please understand that I'm not referring to anyone specifically. It is just a general statement.
Even if we are not called to sell all our possessions (which I see no biblical backing for) there are so many things we waste our money on needlessly. Eating out is one big thing. A lot of money is wasted on fast food and "fancy" food. TV is another thing. If half of the money made off of movies each year were given to the poor, we could effectively end world hunger. And, by the way, that's taking into consideration that not all of the money given makes it to the poor. Think of all the money "invested" in home improvement. I find it ironic that we are willing to spend thousands of dollars on redoing a room, when such an amount of money would feed those who basically live in boxes for ten years. It's not only the big things. It's all the little things we don't need to do that we waste our money on. There's far more than I've listed here. If all CHristians would give up the luxuries they've become dependant on, not only would world hunger end but we would also make a strong statement for Christ to our own nation. And such a statement as that would be priceless.

My question for you then is Where do you get the time and money to be on-line?

 

[wrldstrman]

The problem is most all the people with lots of money arent christians..I see lots of christians doing their best to help the needed.The problem is most christians are probally like me one of the poor.The two things that bother me are and your talking about the christian community is when I watch some of the shows on TBN or other channels where they spend so much money decorating the churches or on the buildings..Doesnt a plain simple chair preform the same function as a chair covered in velvet inlaid with gold etc...The other think that really makes me sick is when all the so called celeberties get on tv asking for us to send money to help with certian causes..which is good but why dont they give a million or so of their own money..A good example is the time all the stars had the telethon for the victims of 9 11...Well they blasted Rosie Odonald for not going on tv with them to beg for money..But she gave I belive a million dollars of her own money and Im pretty sure the others that asked us to give ,gave only a small donation or none at all.So I belive most christians do give and try to help the poor but the ones that have tons of money usally wont part with it.You know to be a star its much more inportant to pay a few thousand dollars to get your hair done than it is to help out a less fortunate person..Granted there are a few celebs that do help the poor just not many..And one last thing there are quite a few that choose to live on the streets and thats what they do.

 

[die2live]

My question for you then is Where do you get the time and money to be on-line?

Actually, it costs me no money to be online. I currently use my parent's internet services, as it costs them no extra money for me to do so. When the time comes that I would need to pay for my own Internet if I were to have one, I would no longer use it, or I would use a public access terminal, like at the library. As far as time, I'm not on very much. I usually take about five minutes each day to check my e-mail and I'm here on average about a half-hour a week. Other than that, the only times I am on line is for research.

 

[die2live]

Jesus told ONE person to do this. Note He did not tell Zacheus to do that. It is not a universal command. In Acts, it was entirely up to the individual and the people sold possessions "as others (within the church) had need" -- not just generally selling all.

That said, giving to the poor is mentioned a LOT in Scripture. Surprisingly, giving to "the church" as an organization is NOT. Even in Acts, the people laid the money at the apostles' feet for the purpose of distributing to the poor. No one did this for a "building program." In addition, they did not lay it at the feet of Caesar to redistribute as "welfare." (To comment on what billwald wrote, it cannot be "charity" if it is compulsory.)

I'm guessing you're thinking about the time that Jesus spoke to the rich young man. That's the first thing I usually think of as well. But Jesus actually did give a general command to sell all. Luke 12:33 says:

"Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will not be exhausted, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys."

This is a command that seems to be optional. I believe that the only reason for that is because we don't see enough people doing it. Our thought process goes like this, "No one else is doing it, not even Christians. It can't possibly be mandatory."
Am I saying that everyone who does not sell all their possessions and give to the poor are not really Christians? No. That's not for me to decide, and I'm glad for that. I don't believe it anyway. All I'm saying is that by not doing that, many Christians, most all of American Christians, are not living to their full potential in Christ. And they're not the only ones suffering for it.

 

[porcupine]

I'm guessing you're thinking about the time that Jesus spoke to the rich young man. That's the first thing I usually think of as well. But Jesus actually did give a general command to sell all. Luke 12:33 says:

"Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will not be exhausted, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys."

This is a command that seems to be optional. I believe that the only reason for that is because we don't see enough people doing it. Our thought process goes like this, "No one else is doing it, not even Christians. It can't possibly be mandatory."
Am I saying that everyone who does not sell all their possessions and give to the poor are not really Christians? No. That's not for me to decide, and I'm glad for that. I don't believe it anyway. All I'm saying is that by not doing that, many Christians, most all of American Christians, are not living to their full potential in Christ. And they're not the only ones suffering for it.

You are right in that to the extent that your possessions do not possess you that will be the extent to which you can truly follow Christ. I believe this is anoth of those "if that's what it takes" statements -- if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out, or if any mand does not hate mother or father -- which give you a comparison between what you value as a believer and what people value in the world.

 

[porcupine]

Actually, it costs me no money to be online. I currently use my parent's internet services, as it costs them no extra money for me to do so. When the time comes that I would need to pay for my own Internet if I were to have one, I would no longer use it, or I would use a public access terminal, like at the library. As far as time, I'm not on very much. I usually take about five minutes each day to check my e-mail and I'm here on average about a half-hour a week. Other than that, the only times I am on line is for research.

However, the comments you made seemed to indicate that we should all go to the MAX -- waste NO time or money on it. That's what I was getting at.

 

[die2live]

The Internet is a very useful tool for reaching out to the poor. Many world relief organizations and missionary outreaches (such as World Vision or Gospel for Asia) have websites that serve as a great way to get the news of their needs out. To a certain extent, it's an investment not a waste.
Now a thing like this website, where it's merely a place to gather and discuss beliefs, is also a great outreach. Do you know how many non-Christians post on here? I don't, but I know there's quite a few. God is reaching out to them through this website. The greatest need of this world is not physical. It's spiritual. And in that way, our country is as poor as any other. I don't have a problem with every cent that does not go directly toward world relief, and I don't beleive God has a problem with that either.The problem arises when money that otherwise could have gone to something worthwhile, whether it's for the physical or spiritual, is used on movies or eating out or anything else that we convince ourselves that we need.
As far as what was said about giving to the poor as "that's what it takes" statements. I simply disagree. And I disagree because I see examples of it in the Bible, in the early church. I don't believe it is an example that is outdated. I do believe that the early believers did give everything to the church, which in turn gave to those who had need. And the poor today have no less need now than they did then.

 

[porcupine]

As far as what was said about giving to the poor as "that's what it takes" statements. I simply disagree. And I disagree because I see examples of it in the Bible, in the early church. I don't believe it is an example that is outdated. I do believe that the early believers did give everything to the church, which in turn gave to those who had need. And the poor today have no less need now than they did then.

Read Acts again. Not everyone sold everything. Nor was anyone required to do so.

 

[die2live]

Read Acts again. Not everyone sold everything. Nor was anyone required to do so.

The Bible does not spell out what every single church did, no. Paul traveled around planting churches in just about every major city from Antioch to Philippi and beyond. The details about what every church did were not significant ot the overall message that God was using the author to communicate. In the examples that we do have, we see believers giving up everything they have.
I agree with you that it was not required. Why did Ananias and Sapphira die? It wasn't because they held back a portion of their earnings. It was because they lied about it. So no, selling everything you have is not required. That's not what I've been trying to say. If I didn't express that clearly, I apologize.
What I've been trying to say is that such an act should be what Christians volunteer to do. Yes it was a direct command of Jesus', but if it was actually required in order to be saved, not a lot, if any, Americans would be going to heaven.
I look at this subject in light of the book of James, particularly chapters 2 and 4. There is no work that will get anyone to heaven. But our actions are a reflection and product of our faith, and if our faith is true, then it should result in obediance to God's commands.

 

[Shalico2007]

The United States has become spoiled, and having everything supplied for it. Don't get me wrong, that doesn't mean that there aren't people here in the United States going without; that happens every day. And you're right -- the Bible does tell us to share with people.

1 John 3:17 says: "But whoever has this world's goods, and sees his brother in need, and shuts up his heart from him, how does the love of God abide in him?"

 

[porcupine]

The United States has become spoiled, and having everything supplied for it. Don't get me wrong, that doesn't mean that there aren't people here in the United States going without; that happens every day. And you're right -- the Bible does tell us to share with people.

1 John 3:17 says: "But whoever has this world's goods, and sees his brother in need, and shuts up his heart from him, how does the love of God abide in him?"

Also stats show that the US is the most generous in the world. This is especially true in INDIVIDUAL giving to help others. In fact, the research has shown that it is the lower-middle class who give the most. This doesn not mean we give "enough" in God's eyes -- just that there is a lot of giving here.

 

[sinner/SAVED]

The US is the most generous in dollar amount but nowhere near the most generous in proportion to wealth.

 

[porcupine]

The US is the most generous in dollar amount but nowhere near the most generous in proportion to wealth.

This is true of GOVERNMENT giving, but not of INDIVIDUAL giving.