freeindeed2
In Christ We Are FREE!
Hey, if you don't want to give sources for your words, that's fine. It's par for the SDA course as is evidenced by your prophet.
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Many people 'claim' they are spirit-filled or 'have received the Holy Spirit', and speak the same giberish words as the santeria and voodoo worshipers in the islands and flop around like the mambo priestesses and go into trances like the houngan priest and worshipers. So do the devil-worshiping followers have the "Gift of the Spirit"? Of course not, they are filled with another spirit, but yet christians accept the same spirit and dont differentiate what is holy from the unholy, or think they can continue in sin (which is the same as sin from those who are not following God but the Evil one with their devil-worshiper) and be "spirit-filled". I've seen the island devil worship with my own eyes become "spirit-filled" and it wasn't the Holy Spirit so I am not speaking from the seat of my pants as background.
Other christians take the "style" that others tell them shows the spirit and imitate it so they can say they are "spirit filled" but have no "substance" or real experience with the Holy Spirit just the "look" as if they did, which I call the same as "cheap grace" (for those who pretend they repented from sin and accepted grace) or a "fake spirit".....
So how do we know if it is truly the Holy Spirit? Here is excerpt from a excellent piece on this from Richard O Fill:
"... I believe that it would be safe to say that everybody who is talking about the Holy Spirit doesn't have Him. I say this because Jesus Himself said that not everybody who would say," Lord, Lord", would enter into the kingdom of Heaven. (Matthew 7:22,23)
He even spoke of an incredible time in which some would say, "But Lord in your name we did all kinds of miracles" and he would say to them, "Depart from me ye workers of iniquity. I never knew you!"... Jesus said he would give the Holy Spirit to those who ask (Luke 11:13) and who obey Him. (Acts 5:32)
Can't you see it now, if the ground becomes Holy when God's presence is there and if the Ark of the Covenant was Holy because of the His presence so if we will ask God for the fullness of the Spirit, for the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Then we shall begin to comprehend what it means ... "Know you not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost whose temple you are."(1Corinthians 6:19). O wonder of wonders! Glory of glories! The responsibility of the Christian in relationship to the indwelling of the Spirit is wonderful and awe inspiring because once the Spirit takes up his abode with us, we become responsible to Him and he that would defile the temple of the Holy Ghost whose temple we are him will God destroy (1 Corinthians 3:17). Why? Because to whom much is given shall much be required! (Luke 12:47)
Is it possible to put too much emphasis on the Holy Spirit? Yes. You see, the Spirit does not create his own special interest group. A significant number of Christians have developed a cult of the Holy Spirit. They worship Him. He is the theme of their Christian lives.
This is not to be. The Spirit was not sent to testify of himself or for His own glory. He is transparent, nearly invisible if you please. His task is to not testify of himself but to testify of Jesus (John 15:26).
Jesus sent the Holy Spirit so that we would abide in Him. After all, Jesus, Himself, said that He is the vine and we are the branches (John 15:1-9). It is the Holy Spirit that makes this relationship possible.
Let me explain it another way. You see, life in the Holy Spirit in a process. Not a product. Though life in the Holy Spirit will produce results. It is not so much a result as it is a process. The Holy Spirit's work itself is better thought of as a process that is being affected in us.
Just as the branch of a tree is alive because of its connection to the tree, (the tree provides life to the branch), So every inclination that we have toward Christ, every true spiritual inclination that we have comes from the Spirit of God.
How can we know we have the Holy Spirit?...They tell me about a famous healer who will say, "I feel the Holy Spirit and I'm going to give it to you." He waves his arm and the choir falls out of its seats. You may have seen these charismatic ministers touch the people on their foreheads and they fall down backwards (ushers are waiting to catch them)
I visited a large church in South America where people all over the congregation would stand up start going slowly in circles and then fall down "smitten in the spirit". Is this what the Lord wants us to do? When we say we need the infilling of the Holy Spirit is this what is meant? Must we mumble some kind of gibberish, fall out of our chairs or fall backwards on the floor.
When our ministers are filled with the Holy Spirit does it mean they will be able to do mass healing no questions asked? I believe correct prayer for the sick is found in James 5 and you can see that it is not standing up before the television cameras and shouting, "Heal, heal, heal ..."
James 5 gives rather clear and concise instructions as to prayer for the sick and believe it or not it has to do with confession of sin and repentance. It says and "if he hath committed any sin it will be forgiven him." James 5:15). Healing in the 21st century is not to be with no strings attached but always for the glory of God and not of man.
I don't believe we should use a "miracle" yardstick to measure the blessings of God or the work of the Holy Spirit. I like what my Dad says, "We need to measure the Holy Spirit not by the gifts of the Spirit but by the fruit of the Spirit".
If being able to do miracles means for sure that a person has the Holy Spirit then the devil must have the Holy Spirit because the Scripture speaks of the spirits of devils working miracles. (Revelation 16:14)
This is why I believe that we must not look to the gifts of the Spirit as a sure test of having the Holy Spirit. The sure test of the Holy Spirit in the life is the fruit of the Spirit. Satan is a great imitator but the true fruit of the Spirit in the life cannot be counterfeited.
Notice the text in Galatians doesn't refer us to the fruits of the Spirit plural but fruit singular. That means that the fruit in Galatians 5 - love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness and self control are what being full of the Spirit is all about....
...I may be just too naive, but I can't understand how God would give his crowning gift, the actually indwelling of His Spirit, to a person who was living in (sin). Maybe I'm just not educated enough but I can't understand how God would give his crowning gift the actual indwelling of His Spirit to a person who was knowingly disobedient to the will of God...."
Other christians take the "style" that others tell them shows the spirit and imitate it so they can say they are "spirit filled" but have no "substance" or real experience with the Holy Spirit just the "look" as if they did, which I call the same as "cheap grace" (for those who pretend they repented from sin and accepted grace) or a "fake spirit".....
So how do we know if it is truly the Holy Spirit? Here is excerpt from a excellent piece on this from Richard O Fill:
"... I believe that it would be safe to say that everybody who is talking about the Holy Spirit doesn't have Him. I say this because Jesus Himself said that not everybody who would say," Lord, Lord", would enter into the kingdom of Heaven. (Matthew 7:22,23)
He even spoke of an incredible time in which some would say, "But Lord in your name we did all kinds of miracles" and he would say to them, "Depart from me ye workers of iniquity. I never knew you!"... Jesus said he would give the Holy Spirit to those who ask (Luke 11:13) and who obey Him. (Acts 5:32)
Can't you see it now, if the ground becomes Holy when God's presence is there and if the Ark of the Covenant was Holy because of the His presence so if we will ask God for the fullness of the Spirit, for the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Then we shall begin to comprehend what it means ... "Know you not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost whose temple you are."(1Corinthians 6:19). O wonder of wonders! Glory of glories! The responsibility of the Christian in relationship to the indwelling of the Spirit is wonderful and awe inspiring because once the Spirit takes up his abode with us, we become responsible to Him and he that would defile the temple of the Holy Ghost whose temple we are him will God destroy (1 Corinthians 3:17). Why? Because to whom much is given shall much be required! (Luke 12:47)
Is it possible to put too much emphasis on the Holy Spirit? Yes. You see, the Spirit does not create his own special interest group. A significant number of Christians have developed a cult of the Holy Spirit. They worship Him. He is the theme of their Christian lives.
This is not to be. The Spirit was not sent to testify of himself or for His own glory. He is transparent, nearly invisible if you please. His task is to not testify of himself but to testify of Jesus (John 15:26).
Jesus sent the Holy Spirit so that we would abide in Him. After all, Jesus, Himself, said that He is the vine and we are the branches (John 15:1-9). It is the Holy Spirit that makes this relationship possible.
Let me explain it another way. You see, life in the Holy Spirit in a process. Not a product. Though life in the Holy Spirit will produce results. It is not so much a result as it is a process. The Holy Spirit's work itself is better thought of as a process that is being affected in us.
Just as the branch of a tree is alive because of its connection to the tree, (the tree provides life to the branch), So every inclination that we have toward Christ, every true spiritual inclination that we have comes from the Spirit of God.
How can we know we have the Holy Spirit?...They tell me about a famous healer who will say, "I feel the Holy Spirit and I'm going to give it to you." He waves his arm and the choir falls out of its seats. You may have seen these charismatic ministers touch the people on their foreheads and they fall down backwards (ushers are waiting to catch them)
I visited a large church in South America where people all over the congregation would stand up start going slowly in circles and then fall down "smitten in the spirit". Is this what the Lord wants us to do? When we say we need the infilling of the Holy Spirit is this what is meant? Must we mumble some kind of gibberish, fall out of our chairs or fall backwards on the floor.
When our ministers are filled with the Holy Spirit does it mean they will be able to do mass healing no questions asked? I believe correct prayer for the sick is found in James 5 and you can see that it is not standing up before the television cameras and shouting, "Heal, heal, heal ..."
James 5 gives rather clear and concise instructions as to prayer for the sick and believe it or not it has to do with confession of sin and repentance. It says and "if he hath committed any sin it will be forgiven him." James 5:15). Healing in the 21st century is not to be with no strings attached but always for the glory of God and not of man.
I don't believe we should use a "miracle" yardstick to measure the blessings of God or the work of the Holy Spirit. I like what my Dad says, "We need to measure the Holy Spirit not by the gifts of the Spirit but by the fruit of the Spirit".
If being able to do miracles means for sure that a person has the Holy Spirit then the devil must have the Holy Spirit because the Scripture speaks of the spirits of devils working miracles. (Revelation 16:14)
This is why I believe that we must not look to the gifts of the Spirit as a sure test of having the Holy Spirit. The sure test of the Holy Spirit in the life is the fruit of the Spirit. Satan is a great imitator but the true fruit of the Spirit in the life cannot be counterfeited.
Notice the text in Galatians doesn't refer us to the fruits of the Spirit plural but fruit singular. That means that the fruit in Galatians 5 - love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness and self control are what being full of the Spirit is all about....
...I may be just too naive, but I can't understand how God would give his crowning gift, the actually indwelling of His Spirit, to a person who was living in (sin). Maybe I'm just not educated enough but I can't understand how God would give his crowning gift the actual indwelling of His Spirit to a person who was knowingly disobedient to the will of God...."
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Eila
Senior Veteran
Yes - no questions asked because the healing is based on God's grace and not a person's goodness.
The texts in James does not say that you must confess your sins to be healed, but that if someone sins they will be forgiven. Did Jesus make sure everyone who came to Him for healing had their sins forgiven?
There are 3 different things:
- fruit of the Spirit
- gifts of the Spirit
- manifestations of the Spirit
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When Jesus healed or dealt with people that were ill he also forgave them of their sin as their problem may have been caused from or be because of sin, only He knows for sure.
Matthew 9:2
And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee.
Luke 5:20
And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee.
There are many spirits that are not of God. They have to be tested against Gods truth. If there is no understanding or if they speak nonsense that is not a real languange or give a false interpretation that goes against God's will, and teach not what is from God's truth and the testimony of Jesus, it is more likely than not, a false or evil spirit.
3But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent's cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 4For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough. 2 Corinthians 11:3-4
The whole purpose of speaking in tongues was to speak to others from foreign lands or edify the church not just to babble untelligently. If you cannot understand what a spirit has given and their is no one that speaks the language to interpret, scripture says its is bettter to stay quiet.
26What then shall we say, brothers? When you come together, everyone has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. All of these must be done for the strengthening of the church. 27If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God. 1 Corinthians 14:26-28
Here is a excerpt from another sermon from Richard OFill on the Holy Spirit:
"....I don't want an experience with the Holy Spirit that has me climbing the walls, swooning in the aisles, or jumping up and down and clapping my hands. Though God is the God of wind, He is not in the wind. Though God is the God of fire, He is not in the fire. But He is in the still small voice.
I seek not an experience in the Holy Spirit that is hysterical or hypnotic. "One thing have I desired of the Lord, that I will seek after; that I may dwell in the house of the Lord all the days of my life, to behold the beauty of the Lord, and to inquire in His temple" (Psalm 27:4).
I don't even want the Holy Spirit in my life because I want power. I want the Holy Spirit in my life because I love the Lord Jesus Christ with all my heart. And though Jesus left us physically 2,000 years ago, in the Holy Spirit we have the most wonderful gift of all--Christ in us, the hope of glory.
I repeat, I don't want the Holy Spirit because I want power. I want Him to live in me because I love Him and crave His blessed presence.....The blessing that the Holy Spirit is in my life is best summed up in the words, "Emmanuel"--God with us. You see, that is what it's all about. The Holy Spirit is the most wonderful of all of God's gifts. I guess you can say that, when the Holy Spirit is in your life, it is God moved in with you.
A lot of problems disappear or become mute or irrelevant when that happens. You see, God is Holy, and when a Holy God moves in with you. His Holy presence will prepare, if you please, a sterile field in your life.
It is for this reason that Scripture says, "Old things are passed away; and behold, all things are become new" (2 Corinthians 5:17). It also gives meaning to the words, "What fellowship has light with darkness" (2 Corinthians 6:14). When you and I have the Holy Spirit in our lives, we will hate the world, and as we sing, the things of earth grow strangely dim in the light of His glory and grace.
If only God's people in this generation would pray for the Holy Spirit and mean it...A person who seeks the Holy Spirit for gratification of His spiritual fantasies or for personal gain in power or popularity may very well receive a spirit and exhibit those characteristics, but they will not be from the Holy Spirit of God, but from another spirit. God will not be used by us. He is not God because of us. But we are created by Him for His pleasure and for His glory.
When the Holy Spirit dwells in its fullness in our hearts, then we will grow and experience what it means. "Forever, O God, thy word is settled in Heaven" (Psalms 119:89). And also, "I delight to do Thy will, O My God; Yea, thy law is written in my heart" (Psalm 40:8).
Our worldliness or spiritual instability--the direct hit that many of us are taking from the flesh and the devil--are the direct result that we have not asked for, and thus have not received, the fullness of the Spirit.
Of one thing you may be sure, and that is, when you and I ask for and experience the indwelling of the Holy Spirit:
Listen to me. If your life is dominated by a bad temper, if you nurture a spirit of criticism, if you love to keep up with the Jones, if you have secret immoral practices, if you enjoy watching people break the law of God on television programs, and I could go on and on, you are not under grace but under law.
The Spirit of God in Christ has made us free from the law of sin and death. You may be thinking, "Are you saying that when the Holy Spirit is in us, we will be perfect? That we will never sin again?" I didn't say that. But this I know, and that is, when the Spirit of a Holy God dwells with us, we will begin to hate the things we have loved and we will be begin to love the things we have hated.
As the Holy Spirit dwells in your heart, if you will ask Him and cooperate with Him, He will give you an ongoing victory over the sins that have so long ruined our quality of life. The promise is sin shall not have dominion over you (Romans 6:14)....Why does the spiritual life have to be so complicated? I believe it is because, in the days of Pentecost, the truth about the Holy Spirit had not been yet distorted or misrepresented. But it must have been messed up before long though, because of Simon Magus. He wanted to buy it.
Remember the Holy Spirit does at least two levels of work:
Matthew 9:2
And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee.
Luke 5:20
And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee.
There are many spirits that are not of God. They have to be tested against Gods truth. If there is no understanding or if they speak nonsense that is not a real languange or give a false interpretation that goes against God's will, and teach not what is from God's truth and the testimony of Jesus, it is more likely than not, a false or evil spirit.
3But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent's cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 4For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough. 2 Corinthians 11:3-4
The whole purpose of speaking in tongues was to speak to others from foreign lands or edify the church not just to babble untelligently. If you cannot understand what a spirit has given and their is no one that speaks the language to interpret, scripture says its is bettter to stay quiet.
26What then shall we say, brothers? When you come together, everyone has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. All of these must be done for the strengthening of the church. 27If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God. 1 Corinthians 14:26-28
Here is a excerpt from another sermon from Richard OFill on the Holy Spirit:
"....I don't want an experience with the Holy Spirit that has me climbing the walls, swooning in the aisles, or jumping up and down and clapping my hands. Though God is the God of wind, He is not in the wind. Though God is the God of fire, He is not in the fire. But He is in the still small voice.
I seek not an experience in the Holy Spirit that is hysterical or hypnotic. "One thing have I desired of the Lord, that I will seek after; that I may dwell in the house of the Lord all the days of my life, to behold the beauty of the Lord, and to inquire in His temple" (Psalm 27:4).
I don't even want the Holy Spirit in my life because I want power. I want the Holy Spirit in my life because I love the Lord Jesus Christ with all my heart. And though Jesus left us physically 2,000 years ago, in the Holy Spirit we have the most wonderful gift of all--Christ in us, the hope of glory.
I repeat, I don't want the Holy Spirit because I want power. I want Him to live in me because I love Him and crave His blessed presence.....The blessing that the Holy Spirit is in my life is best summed up in the words, "Emmanuel"--God with us. You see, that is what it's all about. The Holy Spirit is the most wonderful of all of God's gifts. I guess you can say that, when the Holy Spirit is in your life, it is God moved in with you.
A lot of problems disappear or become mute or irrelevant when that happens. You see, God is Holy, and when a Holy God moves in with you. His Holy presence will prepare, if you please, a sterile field in your life.
It is for this reason that Scripture says, "Old things are passed away; and behold, all things are become new" (2 Corinthians 5:17). It also gives meaning to the words, "What fellowship has light with darkness" (2 Corinthians 6:14). When you and I have the Holy Spirit in our lives, we will hate the world, and as we sing, the things of earth grow strangely dim in the light of His glory and grace.
If only God's people in this generation would pray for the Holy Spirit and mean it...A person who seeks the Holy Spirit for gratification of His spiritual fantasies or for personal gain in power or popularity may very well receive a spirit and exhibit those characteristics, but they will not be from the Holy Spirit of God, but from another spirit. God will not be used by us. He is not God because of us. But we are created by Him for His pleasure and for His glory.
When the Holy Spirit dwells in its fullness in our hearts, then we will grow and experience what it means. "Forever, O God, thy word is settled in Heaven" (Psalms 119:89). And also, "I delight to do Thy will, O My God; Yea, thy law is written in my heart" (Psalm 40:8).
Our worldliness or spiritual instability--the direct hit that many of us are taking from the flesh and the devil--are the direct result that we have not asked for, and thus have not received, the fullness of the Spirit.
Of one thing you may be sure, and that is, when you and I ask for and experience the indwelling of the Holy Spirit:
- All known sin will go.
- We will seek first the Kingdom of Heaven and His righteousness.
- Sin will not have dominion over us.
Listen to me. If your life is dominated by a bad temper, if you nurture a spirit of criticism, if you love to keep up with the Jones, if you have secret immoral practices, if you enjoy watching people break the law of God on television programs, and I could go on and on, you are not under grace but under law.
The Spirit of God in Christ has made us free from the law of sin and death. You may be thinking, "Are you saying that when the Holy Spirit is in us, we will be perfect? That we will never sin again?" I didn't say that. But this I know, and that is, when the Spirit of a Holy God dwells with us, we will begin to hate the things we have loved and we will be begin to love the things we have hated.
As the Holy Spirit dwells in your heart, if you will ask Him and cooperate with Him, He will give you an ongoing victory over the sins that have so long ruined our quality of life. The promise is sin shall not have dominion over you (Romans 6:14)....Why does the spiritual life have to be so complicated? I believe it is because, in the days of Pentecost, the truth about the Holy Spirit had not been yet distorted or misrepresented. But it must have been messed up before long though, because of Simon Magus. He wanted to buy it.
Remember the Holy Spirit does at least two levels of work:
- Convicting of sin, of righteousness, and of judgment (John 16:8-10).
- Then there is an in-filling of the Holy Ghost. This is much more than a work of conviction. It is an on-going condition by which we are actually purged of sin and changed fundamentally and permanently. This is the sealing work-the Holy Spirit settling us into the truth so that we cannot be moved....."
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Eila
Senior Veteran
Who said anything about speaking in tongues? I know the SDA position on this and I disagree with it.
Acts 1 "8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."
The purpose of the power is to be a witness.
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But the Jews believed that anyone that suffered from a illness must have brought it upon themselves as that had been the case in many instances, remember Mariam when she spoke agaisnt Moses......
So I think Jesus used it to make a point, that He had the "authority" to forgive sins.
So I think Jesus used it to make a point, that He had the "authority" to forgive sins.
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Eila
Senior Veteran
Jesus corrected that idea. John 9 "2 And His disciples asked Him, saying, Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?
3 Jesus answered, Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but that the works of God should be revealed in him."
Am I understanding you correctly that you believe all sickness is a result of your sin? So if you get a cold it is because you sinned?
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djconklin
Moderate SDA
Originally Posted by OntheDL
I find it interesting you need the book and the verse to be able to find the scriptures I quoted for you considering you claim to have been a pastor. But then it's not surprising for me at all after seeing all the stuff happening in these colleges.
I had given you the means. Just plug in the passages in the biblegateway search. There you go. You want to be spoon-fed?
Hey, if you don't want to give sources for your words, that's fine. It's par for the SDA course as is evidenced by your prophet.
DL, I have my doubts too.
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