Gideon has sinned. And the truth still stands regardless.

[Lost4words]

It’s not a matter of being super holy but if you want to go on reckoning yourself a sinner more power to ya to be just that.

Oh, And don’t worry about putting him on a pedestal. He does a great job of that on his own. The Great Gideon has fallen, has fallen! Gimme a break.

But we are ALL sinners. Anyone who claims otherwise is fooling themselves. When i am weak, it is then that i am strong. It is then that we truly see how merciful and loving God is.

 

[~Zao~]

But we are ALL sinners. Anyone who claims otherwise is fooling themselves. When i am weak, it is then that i am strong. It is then that we truly see how merciful and loving God is.

Deny thyself mean nothing to you? That’s been discussed to death on another forum that I participated with you in, so I don’t think it does.

But that’s another discussion altogether by the looks of it.

 

[bmjackson]

I think its extremely difficult for anyone to live a life without sin. Even great Saints sinned.

It is very easy actually. It is the state that God created us to be in till Adam messed things up.

But you are right and they did not live a life without sin - only Christ did that, but when they know the truth - that He came to set us free and return us to that state, then by faith you achieve it.

And often it is those who sinned the most, and were forgiven when they repented, that proclaim this truth that the church has denied since the outset.

 

[RaymondG]

Think of King David. He was four-to-the-floor in His touting of righteousness, yet he sinned in extremis and GOD made it public! He let us see it all, the stumbles and the gloryings. David's Son Solomon shipwrecked and yet GOD lets the record stand of PROVERBS, the sayings of the wisest man who ever lived.

I love both of those men of God! More than that I love the GOD of steadfast love, who was their GOD.

What about Jesus? He we perfect and without sin. Why not try and be like Him and pattern yourself after Him....relate to Him......instead of those you believe fell to sin?

Let this mind be in you which was also in David? Solomon??? or Jesus?

 

[fhansen]

We assume not sinning equals perfection. So if we accept that premise, we immediately lose heart in trying to figure out how to stop sinning because after all, perfection is for Jesus only.

Jesus is our model; perfection is for us too; God didn't make us to be imperfect after all, to be sinners. This life is a journey that He's put humankind on, to perfection, a journey that we cannot make successfully except to the extent that we're partnered with Him on it. And so our first and main decision is whether or not we really want this partnership, this union with the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. And this "wanting", this wisdom, is progressive, we grow in our faith in, hope in, and love for God as we struggle against attraction to anything less than Him, to created things, of the flesh.

Adam essentially denied and dismissed God, going his own way, thinking he knew better than Him. We're here to learn the absolute fallacy of that choice. We're here to learn the whys and hows of turning fully back to God, until we love Him with our whole heart, soul, mind and strength and our neighbor as ourselves. With that kind of love, that only God can accomplish in us, sin would be totally excluded. It's a journey, and God is endlessly kind and patient at helping us arrive. We must strive, but the same pride that drove Adam to disobey continues to stir disobedience in ourselves, to forget our need for Him. And sometimes we must learn the lesson all over again. And hopefully learn it better this time.

 

[RaymondG]

I think its extremely difficult for anyone to live a life without sin. Even great Saints sinned.

It is not only difficult....but, for man, it is impossible. But take courage....because, with God, all things are possible.

The danger in the premise of this topic is that when can have the spirit of God in us...... have the mind of Christ, and sin....therefore there it nothing to worry about, nothing to do.....no reason to continue to seek salvation, because you already have it..... Even when the Word states that those born of God do not commit Sin.

So instead of pondering our salvation, examining ourselves....we go on about our business, believing everything is ok.....

 

[GOD Shines Forth!]

What about Jesus? He we perfect and without sin. Why not try and be like Him and pattern yourself after Him....relate to Him?

Good point. What does that have to do with mine? I chose two very well known sinners who God used mightily, IN SPITE OF their sin. Both proclaimed righteousness and both fell. God still used. He made sure it was recorded for our learning.

 

[RaymondG]

Good point. What does that have to do with mine? I chose two very well known sinners who God used mightily, IN SPITE OF their sin. Both proclaimed righteousness and both fell. God still used. He made sure it was recorded for our learning.

He also made sure this was recorded: There was no man born greater that John the Baptist......Yet the least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
The kingdom of heaven is at Hand......time to enter.... and this is not possible while we are still trying to be like great men.

 

[GOD Shines Forth!]

Is this analogous to what Gideons300 has done? Not really.

The analogy is concerning your statement:

It is comforting to some to know that, whatever you may preach to them about victory over sin, the reality is that you fall into sin, too. It confirms them in thinking that a holy life really isn't possible - at least, not all the time. It's been said that misery loves company, but so do those who live in moral and spiritual compromise. Especially when someone stumbles who has urged holiness, the effect of that stumbling is to set the morally and spiritually compromised more at ease in their compromise. If those who champion holiness can't attain it, why should they strain to do so? Whatever those holiness freaks say, a consistently holy life just isn't possible. Wait for a time and those urging us to be holy fall just like the rest of us.

I pointed to two men whose sin offered this excuse. God didn't hide it from us, lest we use it as an opportunity to sin. If someone does that it is always on them:

"If you are wise, you are wise for yourself; if you scoff, you alone will bear it"
--Woman Wisdom, Prov. 9:12

 

[fhansen]

Well for me I am feeling a certain disquiet about how this thread has gone...

Gid's has fallen seriously and while there is Grace, what happens if in 6 months we get a repeat...

That is why I focussed on how to deal with such temptation so that we don't fall.

I am not sure that it is time for an abundance of words...

It takes more than correct theology to walk in victory.

It takes the fear of Him, and His hatred of evil.

Personally after having to walk out of a similar state I would never entertain the possibility of considering the 'safe use' of what destroyed my life.

Something is amiss.

Deep repentance is not usually accompanied by an abundance of words.

Please forgive me if I am wrong but something doesn't seem to stack up.

There's truth in all you wrote. And yet Gideon's message is a good and valuable one-and worth his sharing. I can't help but think of the principle behind Matt 23:3. Humans will fail at times, but God's word remains true while humans are the vessels through which He works and speaks.

 

[GOD Shines Forth!]

He also made sure this was recorded: There was no man born greater that John the Baptist......Yet the least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
The kingdom of heaven is at Hand......time to enter.... and this is not possible while we are still trying to be like great men.

Keep missing the point and acting like utilizing the OT is moot. I don't mind.

 

[aiki]

I pointed to two men whose sin offered this excuse. God didn't hide it from us, lest we use it as an opportunity to sin. If someone does that it is always on them:

Neither David nor Solomon had the advantage of the spiritually-regenerate life from which Gideon benefits. They knew nothing of the crucified life, of the truths of identification, appropriation and sanctification that Gideon has promoted in his threads. Unlike Gideons300, their sin does not belie these life-changing truths.

 

[W2L]

But we are ALL sinners. Anyone who claims otherwise is fooling themselves. When i am weak, it is then that i am strong. It is then that we truly see how merciful and loving God is.

What are Pauls weaknesses? Were his weakness to sin? If so then, according to the scripture, that was foolish. If so everyone boasting in their weakness to sin is a fool. That doesn't make sense though does it?. Paul cant be talking about his weakness to sin

2 Corinthians 12:11 I have become a fool [c]in boasting;

 

[GOD Shines Forth!]

And yet Gideon's message is a good and valuable one-and worth his sharing. I can't help but think of the principle behind Matt 23:3. Humans will fail at times, but God's word remains true while humans are the vessels through which He works and speaks.

 

[RaymondG]

There's truth in all you wrote. And yet Gideon's message is a good and valuable one-and worth his sharing. I can't help but think of the principle behind Matt 23:3. Humans will fail at times, but God's word remains true while humans are the vessels through which He works and speaks.

Can God dwell in an unclean temple? When I sin, is my temple clean or unclean?
We are cleaned and purified before He enters.... I find it unwise to notice imperfections and assume He in dwelling in imperfection. It is better to continue to seek as if we were never found.....

 

[GOD Shines Forth!]

Neither David nor Solomon had the advantage of the spiritually-regenerate life from which Gideon benefits. They knew nothing of the crucified life, of the truths of identification, appropriation and sanctification that Gideon has promoted in his threads. Unlike Gideons300, their sin does not belie these life-changing truths.

Huh? How do David and Solomon's lives not "belie" the "life-changing truths" THEY were called of God to make? My point stands.

 

[RaymondG]

Keep missing the point and acting like utilizing the OT is moot. I don't mind.

Didnt know that mentioning the Words of Christ meant, to you, that the OT was moot. I'll keep this in mind for the future. Thanks

 

[GOD Shines Forth!]

Didnt know that mentioning the Words of Christ meant, to you, that the OT was moot. I'll keep this in mind for the future. Thanks

We must have missed each other in this. I’m all for your noting the words of Christ. I believe my use of David and Solomon is legitimate re: MEN WHO PREACHED A HIGH STANDARD OF RIGHTEOUSNESS AND FELL, POSSIBLY GIVING EXCUSE TO OTHERS. In this, it was GOD who made sure we all knew about it. He holds each man responsible for what they do with "examples".

 

[aiki]

Huh? How do David and Solomon's lives not "belie" the "life-changing truths" THEY were called of God to make? My point stands.

As I said, neither David nor Solomon were spiritually-regenerated as Gideons300 claims to be. They did not have access to the life-transforming power of the Holy Spirit in the way a post-Calvary believer does, nor did they have a new spiritual identity in Christ as Gideons300 does. In other words, you're comparing apples to oranges. And so, no, your point does not stand.

 

[GOD Shines Forth!]

As I said, neither David nor Solomon were spiritually-regenerated as Gideons300 claims to be. They did not have access to the life-transforming power of the Holy Spirit in the way a post-Calvary believer does, nor did they have a new spiritual identity in Christ as Gideons300 does. In other words, you're comparing apples to oranges. And so, no, your point does not stand.

I understand your point, and don’t disagree. But it has nothing to do with the point I was making (which you’ve missed).

But let that go...Have a very blessed day!