Ghosts

[found1997]

Okay, the plot thickens: my friend actually got some crew of "ghost hunters" into her house and here is what they said: first of all, they researched the house and found out that at some point in its history, a baby drowned in the bathtub and the mother committed suicide in the room where much of the supposed "ghost" activity has taken place. They had not been told which room this was, but apparently it was the same room. They also found pockets of what they called 'negative energy' in areas of the house where 'ghost' activity has taken place, again without being told that this was where the incidents occurred.

So if it is demons, do they KNOW about the death/suicide and are just playing with people's minds about it? Or could it really be the ghost of this mom and her baby trying to . . . what?

I have always been of the belief that there can be no lost souls. If God watches out for every sparrow, can't we assume that he keeps even better track of everybody's soul? But what has gone on in my friend's house is just too strange.

 

[Shaolin Warrior]

nothing can be assumed about spirituality and the ghost hunters could have been liars, horrible to imagine though .

 

[Protestant]

Protestant:
But Jesus talked with the spirits of Moses and Elias.

Furthermore, "medium" and "spiritist" are words from the end of XIX century. I don't know how they could be in the bible.

Matthew 17:1-8 “Now after six days Jesus took Peter, James and John his brother, led them up on a high mountain by themselves; and He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as white as the light. And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him. Then Peter answered and said to Jesus, ‘Lord, it is good for us to be here; if you wish, let us make here three tabernacles: one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah’. While he was still speaking, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them; and suddenly a voice came out of the cloud, saying, ‘This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Hear Him!’ And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their faces and were greatly afraid. But Jesus came and touched them and said, ‘Arise, and do not be afraid.’ When they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no one but Jesus only.


The Bible makes it quite clear that there are a number of people who once lived on this earth who are now living in heaven. The Bible is also quite clear that there are only two ways to be taken to heaven: either by a physical resurrection from the dead where you literally get out of your grave, or by being translated bodily without dying. There are no exceptions. There are no disembodied spirits or ghosts of men in heaven.



The earliest example of a person being translated is Enoch. Enoch was the seventh generation from Adam (Jude14). Heb 11:5 “By faith Enoch was taken away so that he did not see death, and he was not found, because God had taken him.” see also Gen 5:23-24. Moses himself was the first to be raised from the dead. Romans 5:14 ‘…death reigned from Adam to Moses…’ death ceased to reign with the resurrection of Moses. He died and was buried (Deut 34:5-6). Just when he was raised from the dead we do not know but there is recorded a struggle between Michael the Archangel and Satan over the body of Moses as to whether the Archangel had the right to bring him from the grave. Jude 9.



The next example of a person being translated is Elijah the prophet. Elijah did not die. He was transported to heaven alive by a fiery chariot. 2 Kings 2:11 “Then it happened, as they continued on and talked, that suddenly a chariot of fire appeared with horses of fire, and separated the two of them; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.” We see Moses and Elijah later on in the gospels at a special meeting with Jesus.

Jesus led Peter, James, and John to a high mountain by themselves. Jesus was transfigured before them. The face of Jesus shone like the sun and his clothes became as white as the light. The disciples saw Moses and Elijah talking with Christ. They were talking to Jesus about His death at Jerusalem (Luke 9:30-31). These two men represent the two classes of all humanity that make up the saved. Elijah represents the class translated without dying and Moses represents the class resurrected from their graves.


In the bible mediums are called "Witches"

 

[coyoteBR]

Indigo Good post, I have a similar vision, too

found1997 Of course God watches and knows everything ... not a leaf falls without HE Knowing... It's not a case of "lost" souls, but of people that, for a reason or another, missed or didn't want help from people up there, or are too attached to this plane life, or can't let go bad emotions, like rage, will of revenge,... well, there's lots of possible reasons. Or there can be, for those who believe. Again, I'm not the owner of the thruth, just the way I see it.

Protestant, well, I see things diferent. I do believe spirits of the dead ones can talk to us. Just different ways to interpret the message of Christ, nothing else.

 

[Pure Paradox]

This happened to us...
(I copy-pasted it from another time, I sent it to someone in an email)


Anyway, in about 1995, when I was four, we had been living in a house in Maine for about a year. I came running into the kitchen to my grandmother, who lives with us, laughing gaily and saying something about "the lady in the closet". Now, by this age I was reading chapter books and was quite conversational, so upon closer interrogation I told them that there was a lady wearing a dark dress, who was in my closet, making me laugh. My father dismissed it as my overactive imagination.

Some weeks later, my older cousin Michael(also living with us at the time) and my father were sitting down in the living room watching television when they heard what sounded like a woman hacking and coughing; the noise came from my grandparents' room. They went running, thinking it was my asthmatic grandmother, but when they arrived nothing was wrong. My grandmother was sleeping peacefully, and my grandfather was sitting on the bed next to her. He insisted that she had never made a noise, and that he hadn't heard anyone coughing.

Yet later, my grandmother was completely alone in the house-- the other members of the family were away at work, school, errands, etc. She was cooking something, and heard a female voice say her name loudly. "Rose." She was spooked, but ignored it and turned on music to keep her company. Again, it spoke, louder this time, by her ear. And there was nobody in the house.

A couple months later, Michael, who was a teenager at the time, walked into the kitchen for a glass of water. He saw a woman with dark hair who appeared to be my mother at the counter, chopping vegetables with a sharp knife. He thought it was odd that she was wearing so much black on such a hot day, but greeted her. "Hey, Aunt Virgie." She didn't turn around or acknoledge he had spoken. He turned around to get the water out of the fridge, but when he turned back there was no one there. No woman, no vegetables, no knife.

Michael also had another encounter with whatever it was. He was excersizing downstairs in the basement, and suddenly the room was ice cold and he was a flash of white by the door. It lingered for a while before disappearing. Freaked out, he went upstairs.

We thought it may have been one of my ancestors from the Phillipines. It looked a lot like my mother, and seemed to like me.

Between 1994 and 2000, we had a couple more incedents involving the lady. We moved out of the house in 2000. Nothing really has happened since.




Yeah. I believe in ghosts... besides, if so many people have seen them, all these thousands of people can't possibly be hallucinating. Unless, of course, the lady in the closet was just a demon-lady or something. In which case, I am thuroughly freaked out.

 

[Protestant]

Protestant, well, I see things diferent. I do believe spirits of the dead ones can talk to us. Just different ways to interpret the message of Christ, nothing else.

What do you mean "message of Christ"? If the so called dead had anything worth while to say to us why would God command the death penatly for any person who spoke to them?

Deuteronomy 18:9-13 “When you come into the land which the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not learn to follow the abominations of those nations. There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or one who practices witchcraft, or a soothsayer, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, or anyone who conjures spells, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. For all who do these things are an abomination to the Lord, and because of these abominations the Lord your God drives them out from before you.”


God’s condemnation of the occult is quite clear. It is an abomination to God, and those who practise occultism of any description are on Satan’s ground. All forms of witchcraft and talking to the dead are expressly condemned.



Leviticus 19:31 “Give no regard to mediums and familiar spirits; do not seek after them, to be defiled by them: I am the Lord your God”



Mediums were people who spoke to the familiar spirits. These spirits claimed to be the departed dead. God says that any consultation with spirits will result in defilement.



Leviticus 20:27 “A man or a woman who is a medium, or who has familiar spirits, shall surely be put to death; they shall stone them with stones. Their blood shall be upon them.”



So evil was the practise of communing with spirits who claimed to be the departed dead that God ordered the execution of any person who did it. To have a familiar spirit was to have a spirit as a guide who helped, encouraged and gave advice. To have such a spirit councillor was a capital offence in the eyes of God. The reason for this is because: -



“According to the Word of God, these spirits which come to us and claim to be the dear ones taken away by death are not dead people. They are not living people. They are not people at all. They are fallen angels masquerading in the form of our loved ones.” Conditionalist Faith of our Fathers vol 2 p988. Ed. L.E. Froom. Review and Herald, 1965.

Pure Paradox.

people can't possibly be hallucinating. Unless, of course, the lady in the closet was just a demon-lady or something. In which case, I am thuroughly freaked out.

That spirit was a demon/fallen angel pretending to be the departed dead. Im glad that you moved to another house.

 

[Shaolin Warrior]

all bow down and bless the un-erring beholder of truth: PROTESTANT

 

[coyoteBR]

Protestant:

I am glad you have such vision of the Scriptures and Christianism. I think everyone choose to Re-unite (religare, religion) with God the way that we're more confortable with. As long as it doesn't hurt others and fulfill your soul, it's worth.
Let me explain how I see these passages you mentioned. Please note, protestant and all others, that I am not saying I am right and you are wrong. I just want to show another way to look at it.

Imagine Moses. Looking ahead, he sees the endless desert. Just behind him, the Red Sea, just crossed. And behind him, another thing. Hundreds, maybe thousands of men, women, children, elders. Maybe by the first time, he realized he had a task ahead that would make the plagues pale.

At that point, he was the leader of a bunch of slaves. Humans that born, live and die under slavery. All with that expression of "now what?" on their faces. It was up to Moses to transform that bunch of slaves in a People, capital P. to Build a Nation. To start a new culture. To redefine civilization.

Moses knew that, under such conditions, the least thing to try was democracy. He had to be a big general, or no one would survive. So, he created all those laws that only made sense on that situation. Laws to avoid discussions, to prevent illness. Don't eat this, don't get close to women on such times and all. And to avoid talk to spirits.
One, because he didn't want people to question his orders, having diverse ideas of God inspired by spirits
Second, because the people, at that time, didn't had the discerniment to split the good and the not-so-good messages.

Even with all that measures, they made all that Golden Animal mess, didn't they?


Basically, is that.

 

[Shaolin Warrior]

very well put coyoteBR, thank you

 

[Brooke]

Demons can't be female... they can also take on other forms.

I'm glad you finally moved out. Having a dark spirit around isn't very good news. Even if it was just trying to freak everyone out.

 

[Shaolin Warrior]

can't be female??????????????

 

[Brooke]

You mistake my meaning. All demons are male. There is no such thing as a female demon. That doesn't mean that they can't take on the form of a female, though.

 

[Shaolin Warrior]

HA! all demons are male, that's a kicker. I expected something RATIONAL, such as demons have no gender (MALE OR FEMALE) since they are spirits.

 

[Brooke]

Listen. God made man in His image, right? That means God is a "he". And there are numerous references in the Bible referring to Satan as a "him". Gabriel and Raphael, they are both clearly "hims". Just because someone is a spirit doesn't mean they don't have a gender.
Man was modeled after God, not the other way around.

 

[StuckRags]

Listen. God made man in His image, right? That means God is a "he". And there are numerous references in the Bible referring to Satan as a "him". Gabriel and Raphael, they are both clearly "hims". Just because someone is a spirit doesn't mean they don't have a gender.
Man was modeled after God, not the other way around.

Quite true. There is to reference to a female angel in the Bible, or even the possibility. And whatever God is gender wise, He wants us to call him "Father."

Mat 6:9 "Pray, then, in this way: 'Our Father who is in heaven, Hallowed be Your name.

The word "Father" is from the Greek pater which means "a father" literally, figuratively, near or remote.

 

[Shaolin Warrior]

.

 

[Shaolin Warrior]

.

 

[Indigo]

Protestant:

I am glad you have such vision of the Scriptures and Christianism. I think everyone choose to Re-unite (religare, religion) with God the way that we're more confortable with. As long as it doesn't hurt others and fulfill your soul, it's worth.
Let me explain how I see these passages you mentioned. Please note, protestant and all others, that I am not saying I am right and you are wrong. I just want to show another way to look at it.

Imagine Moses. Looking ahead, he sees the endless desert. Just behind him, the Red Sea, just crossed. And behind him, another thing. Hundreds, maybe thousands of men, women, children, elders. Maybe by the first time, he realized he had a task ahead that would make the plagues pale.

At that point, he was the leader of a bunch of slaves. Humans that born, live and die under slavery. All with that expression of "now what?" on their faces. It was up to Moses to transform that bunch of slaves in a People, capital P. to Build a Nation. To start a new culture. To redefine civilization.

Moses knew that, under such conditions, the least thing to try was democracy. He had to be a big general, or no one would survive. So, he created all those laws that only made sense on that situation. Laws to avoid discussions, to prevent illness. Don't eat this, don't get close to women on such times and all. And to avoid talk to spirits.
One, because he didn't want people to question his orders, having diverse ideas of God inspired by spirits
Second, because the people, at that time, didn't had the discerniment to split the good and the not-so-good messages.

Even with all that measures, they made all that Golden Animal mess, didn't they?


Basically, is that.

Good thinking CoyoteBR!

 

[Brooke]

Remember when the sons of God (emphasis mine) saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and married any of them they chose? (Genesis 6)

Or this:
"Then God said,"Let us make man in our image, our likeness..."
I assume He was talking to the angels at that time. The angels were made in the image of God too, if only in appearance.
I said before that man was modeled after God, not the other way around. Are you prepared to argue upon the gender of God? God is a spirit too, yet it would be vulgar to call God a "she". Besides, God tells us to call Him "Father." Yet He is a spirit!

Oh well, we'll believe what we choose. But at any rate, I'm offended by your responses, ShaolinWarrior. I think you should get a warning for your utter rudeness.

 

[Shaolin Warrior]

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