Ghosts

[found1997]

Not sure if this belongs in this category, but if not, please move it to where it belongs. I would like to get a Christian perspective though.

A friend of ours told us that she is looking to break the lease on the house she is renting because, according to her, it is haunted. Assuming she is not just imagining things, the experiences she has been having in this house do sound sort of creepy. It is things like doors closing and locking themselves; or all the furniture or pictures in a room moved systematically out of place (e.g. everything moved two feet to the right, or all tilted to the left or something) when no one could have been in the room to do it.

She also notes that the people who rented the house to her had only bought it recently and then seemingly couldn't wait to get out of it.

So, Christians, could it be ghosts? If not, what are the other possibilities that might fit a Christian world view?

Would love to hear any and all theories.

 

[Krazeekkc]

Demons. I beleive that what some people think are 'ghosts' are really demons.

 

[Godzman]

Demons. I beleive that what some people think are 'ghosts' are really demons.

ghosts are in the archaic term spirits, well that is what we believe they are. Like the KJV Holy Ghost would be Holy Spirit today, samething. demons are spirits they are fallen angels which are spiritual being which the ghost people see would be demons.

 

[found1997]

And can demons actually do stuff like move furniture around, etc.? Why would they pick one particular house to inhabit? just wondering?

 

[wonder111]

ghosts are mentioned in the bible. When Jesus was walking on water, the apostles all said "it's a ghost" not a demon. Also, Luke 24: 36-43 (NIV)
While they were still talking about this, Jesus himself stood among them and said to them, "Peace be with you."

They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost.

He said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have."

When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet. And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement, he asked them, "Do you have anything here to eat?" They gave him a piece of broiled fish, and he took it and ate it in their presence. He never corrected them saying ghosts are just a myth

on beliefnet.com in the Christianity section the answer was this:
If by ghosts one means spirits of the dead, they do exist, as the story about Saul visiting the medium of Endor shows.

 

[found1997]

It is interesting because I have heard two takes on this whole topic. One is that the spirits of the dead cannot and do not hang around and communicate with the living. The other is what Wonder just articulated. But which is the correct view?

Also, in either case, why would ghosts (or demons for that matter) hang out in a house and do silly stuff like move the furniture?

 

[Miss Shelby]

Not sure if this belongs in this category, but if not, please move it to where it belongs. I would like to get a Christian perspective though.

A friend of ours told us that she is looking to break the lease on the house she is renting because, according to her, it is haunted. Assuming she is not just imagining things, the experiences she has been having in this house do sound sort of creepy. It is things like doors closing and locking themselves; or all the furniture or pictures in a room moved systematically out of place (e.g. everything moved two feet to the right, or all tilted to the left or something) when no one could have been in the room to do it.

She also notes that the people who rented the house to her had only bought it recently and then seemingly couldn't wait to get out of it.

So, Christians, could it be ghosts? If not, what are the other possibilities that might fit a Christian world view?


Would love to hear any and all theories.

I don't have a theory on this but I do have a friend who moved out of an apartment because she insisted that there were ghost combing the attic. Her stories were beyond wild, and I have a very hard time believing much of what she said. I'm a skeptic when it comes to this stuff, though.

Michelle

 

[found1997]

Her stories were beyond wild, and I have a very hard time believing much of what she said. I'm a skeptic when it comes to this stuff, though.

I know what you mean. my first impulse with these things is that I just plain don't believe them, anymore than I believe it when people say they were kidnapped by space aliens. But in this case, I'm willing to give this person the benefit of the doubt, since she is usually rational and skeptical herself.

Anyway, let's say that what she is observing is really happening. It is hard to say what could be a cause other than some sort of disembodied spirit -- I mean, it is not as if she lives on an earthquake fault line or something. And apparently these things happen rather suddenly -- like one day, she was in a room with her son, and the door kept closing and locking itself. It kind of freaked her out, so she left the room and went downstairs. A few minutes later, she heard a noise. Went back upstairs and all the pictures on the wall in the room she'd been in were now hanging tilted to the left. No one else was in the house at the time and her son, who is only three, was with her the whole time.

So it is very odd. Thanks for any and all thoughts on this.

 

[Neenie]

ghosts are mentioned in the bible. When Jesus was walking on water, the apostles all said "it's a ghost" not a demon. Also, Luke 24: 36-43 (NIV)
While they were still talking about this, Jesus himself stood among them and said to them, "Peace be with you."

They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost.

He said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have."

When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet. And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement, he asked them, "Do you have anything here to eat?" They gave him a piece of broiled fish, and he took it and ate it in their presence. He never corrected them saying ghosts are just a myth

on beliefnet.com in the Christianity section the answer was this:
If by ghosts one means spirits of the dead, they do exist, as the story about Saul visiting the medium of Endor shows.

Ineresting! Thanks for the info... I have to look it up.

 

[wonder111]

It is interesting because I have heard two takes on this whole topic. One is that the spirits of the dead cannot and do not hang around and communicate with the living. The other is what Wonder just articulated. But which is the correct view?

Also, in either case, why would ghosts (or demons for that matter) hang out in a house and do silly stuff like move the furniture?

I don't really know, I was just posting the other side's point of view. I have never had a personal encounter myself so I can't say I know. However, like you I have had very 'credible' people in my life explain some occurences. A couple of these people are very very rational and logical and do not believe much.

but I'm not one to say 'it can't be true' because there are too many things out there that we do not know

 

[pyon]

Also, in either case, why would ghosts (or demons for that matter) hang out in a house and do silly stuff like move the furniture?

Yeah I was thinking the same thing. And why 2 feet, seems like when we hear about stuff like this, there like things moved only this direction, or that, or this far or that far.

 

[Miss Shelby]

I know what you mean. my first impulse with these things is that I just plain don't believe them, anymore than I believe it when people say they were kidnapped by space aliens. But in this case, I'm willing to give this person the benefit of the doubt, since she is usually rational and skeptical herself.

Anyway, let's say that what she is observing is really happening. It is hard to say what could be a cause other than some sort of disembodied spirit -- I mean, it is not as if she lives on an earthquake fault line or something. And apparently these things happen rather suddenly -- like one day, she was in a room with her son, and the door kept closing and locking itself. It kind of freaked her out, so she left the room and went downstairs. A few minutes later, she heard a noise. Went back upstairs and all the pictures on the wall in the room she'd been in were now hanging tilted to the left. No one else was in the house at the time and her son, who is only three, was with her the whole time.

So it is very odd. Thanks for any and all thoughts on this.

Very strange, that is for sure. I think many Christians would attribute things of this nature to demonic activity...another thing that I am skeptical of. But interesting nonetheless.

Michelle

 

[cindylou]

Not sure if this belongs in this category, but if not, please move it to where it belongs. I would like to get a Christian perspective though.

A friend of ours told us that she is looking to break the lease on the house she is renting because, according to her, it is haunted. Assuming she is not just imagining things, the experiences she has been having in this house do sound sort of creepy. It is things like doors closing and locking themselves; or all the furniture or pictures in a room moved systematically out of place (e.g. everything moved two feet to the right, or all tilted to the left or something) when no one could have been in the room to do it.

She also notes that the people who rented the house to her had only bought it recently and then seemingly couldn't wait to get out of it.

So, Christians, could it be ghosts? If not, what are the other possibilities that might fit a Christian world view?

Would love to hear any and all theories.

Since Jesus clearly identified himself as NOT being a ghost, I have to believe that ghosts do exists. Since the disciples new he was dead, Jesus explanation would suggest that "ghosts" are dead people who haven't made it to heaven(or hell perhaps) yet. Since a demon is a "fallen" angel, demons could not possibly be the same as ghosts although I would imagine demons could take on human form just as angels do....
That being said, my family and I rented a home 3 years ago which was haunted...the former occupant had killed himself and apparantly had not "realized" it yet. Really wierd things were happening...objects moved, lights turned off/on, doors closed/opened....even the dog was freaked out. When I finally became aware of who the "ghost" might be...I simply called him by his name and told him he was dead. I promised I would pray for his soul to make it to heaven....It must have worked because we never had anymore "haunting".
Just and idea.

 

[StuckRags]

Since Jesus clearly identified himself as NOT being a ghost, I have to believe that ghosts do exists.

I can't remember the exact wording Jesus used, but the logic you present here doesn't hold. If I sneak up on some people wearing a white sheet and yell "Boo!", and they say "EEEEK! It's a ghost!!!!", and I pull off the sheet and say, "I'm not a ghost!", then that doesn't mean ghosts exist. If Jesus said, "I am not a ghost," it doesn't follow that he meant "I am not a ghost because they don't exist."

That being said, my family and I rented a home 3 years ago which was haunted...the former occupant had killed himself and apparantly had not "realized" it yet. Really wierd things were happening...objects moved, lights turned off/on, doors closed/opened....even the dog was freaked out. When I finally became aware of who the "ghost" might be...I simply called him by his name and told him he was dead. I promised I would pray for his soul to make it to heaven....It must have worked because we never had anymore "haunting".
Just and idea.

Or maybe the "demon" didn't want anyone talking to his enemy, Jesus, about him.

 

[wonder111]

but with Jesus being their teacher, wouldn't he have corrected them the first time, because later on the apostles asked once again if He was a ghost, by that time woulnd't they have learned that there was no such thing?

 

[cindylou]

I can't remember the exact wording Jesus used, but the logic you present here doesn't hold. If I sneak up on some people wearing a white sheet and yell "Boo!", and they say "EEEEK! It's a ghost!!!!", and I pull off the sheet and say, "I'm not a ghost!", then that doesn't mean ghosts exist. If Jesus said, "I am not a ghost," it doesn't follow that he meant "I am not a ghost because they don't exist."


Or maybe the "demon" didn't want anyone talking to his enemy, Jesus, about him.

Jesus exact words were "Touch me and see for yourselves; a ghost has no flesh and bones as you can see I have." Luke 24:39

Clearly he believed in ghosts and was explaining that he was not one. (Perhaps a better example would be the exact Greek words but I don't have that..will check.)

 

[found1997]

I am not sure the white sheet analogy totally holds up, because in that instance, when the person says "it's a ghost," he is not necessarily suggesting that he believes in actual ghosts.

But I am also not sure that Jesus' words in Luke 24 suggest this either. He knew that his disciples believed in ghosts and what they believed about them (e.g., disembodied, no flesh and bones, etc.). So he may have been referring to their belief, not to the actual existence of ghosts; and he clearly had a different priority at that moment than to debunk their belief in ghosts.

And again, if there are ghosts (or demons for that matter) in my friends house, what could their motive be in doing stuff like just moving things around? It is creepy, but not really threatening and certainly not dangerous.

 

[clinzey]

When Jesus was walking on water, the apostles all said "it's a ghost" not a demon. Also, Luke 24: 36-43 (NIV)

Let's be clear about the wording....Technically, when Jesus walked on the water the disciples thought it was a phantasm, and the passage you referenced from Luke 24, the Greek word is simply the word for spirit (the same word used for holy spirit).

And just because the disciples bleieved something and Jesus never corrected them on it does not mean that Jesus endorsed the idea. From the Bible I have, Jesus doesn't do much teaching on metaphysics, the universe, or other things like that. He seemed to be more a teacher and doer of Godly ethics (and yes, miracles can be included in ethics...).

None of this is to say that ghosts don't exist - whether they do or not there is not enough in the Bible to say definitavely that they did, simply that many people in ancient times believed they did. I

 

[StuckRags]

Jesus exact words were "Touch me and see for yourselves; a ghost has no flesh and bones as you can see I have." Luke 24:39

Clearly he believed in ghosts and was explaining that he was not one. (Perhaps a better example would be the exact Greek words but I don't have that..will check.)

He could have meant, according to their own beliefs, that "a ghost - as you believe them to be - has no flesh."

I think Jesus' statement is still inconclusive with regard to His own belief in "ghosts" as in disembodied spirits.

 

[novellation]

is it possible that it is one of her kids are doing the pranks?