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Ghosts.

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Iollain

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Back in those days, "ghost" did not mean what it means today. It does not mean a disembodied spirit of the dead, but it meant "soul" or "spirit." When the KJV talks about ghosts (or when the 1662 BCP does), it means soul/spirit, not undead being. The fact that the Great Doxology goes "Praise God from Whom all things flow...Praise Him, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost is clear proof." Is the Holy Ghost (Holy Spirit) a disembodied spirit of a person? God forbid!

Moral of the lesson: throw away your KJVs.



Sorry, but you are not translating the KJV correctly. As a member of the Church under whose auspecies the KJV was translated, I ask you to either read our Bible translation right or not use it. Same goes with all others who use the KJV.

And yes, the KJV is still under copywright.

Moses and Elijah weren't "ghosts" under the modern sense, they were ghosts under the earth 17th century ce Anglican sense: living souls/spirits. Oblio is correct in his assumption that you have mistranslated the KJV rendition of ghost as an undead thing.


I had mentioned Samuel, who came up disembodied from Sheol. Moses and Elijah are not raised to incorruptible yet. And it is debatable whether Moses was there bodily or not. So where did i mention Elijah and Moses anyways? I didn't.

A living spirit has different meanings, Elijah is a bodily spirit, Samuel was not. Neither are raised to the incorruptible spirit they will be yet.
 

Debi1967

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Mat 27:50 And Jesus again crying with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
Mat 27:51 And behold the veil of the temple was rent in two from the top even to the bottom: and the earth quaked and the rocks were rent.
Mat 27:52 And the graves were opened: and many bodies of the saints that had slept arose,
Mat 27:53 And coming out of the tombs after his resurrection, came into the holy city and appeared to many.
Mat 27:54 Now the centurion and they that were with him watching Jesus, having seen the earthquake and the things that were done, were sore afraid, saying: Indeed this was the Son of God.

ghost
G4151
πνεῦμα
pneuma
pnyoo'-mah
From G4154; a current of air, that is, breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively a spirit, that is, (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, daemon, or (divine) God, Christ’s spirit, the Holy spirit: - ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind. Compare G5590.
 
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Debi1967

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Also are you saying that the Holy Ghost Himself by definition is not a personage of God and therefore one of the three persons that make up the One BEING that is God? That the Holy Ghost is only a ghost? Merely a figment of one's imagination?
 
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Debi1967

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I believe you said this

Neither are raised to the incorruptible spirit they will be yet.

I proved this wrong

Now, you also challenged the meaning of Ghost... I also rendered which meaning applied...

According to the KJ Dictionary I might add

Samuel was used by God to give a message although the means by which he was brought forth was nemocracy.

Therefore showing that God can as the Devil can use evil for the means of Good as the Devil can use the means of Good for Evil in the long run.

IOWs we can be easily decieved.

Who spoke through Samuel? Did Samuel's prophetic words come to pass because of the means used to call him forth? Was not even the witch scared because she knew it was Samuel speaking for God before her?
 
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Iollain

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They may have been raised, but not to incorruptible yet.






Act 2:22 ¶ Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:


Act 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:


Act 2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.


Act 2:25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:


Act 2:26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:


Act 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.


Act 2:28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.


Act 2:29 Men [and] brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.


Act 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;


Act 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.


Act 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.


Act 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.


Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,


Act 2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.


Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.






1Cr 15:12 ¶ Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?


1Cr 15:13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:


1Cr 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then [is] our preaching vain, and your faith [is] also vain.


1Cr 15:15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.


1Cr 15:16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:


1Cr 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith [is] vain; ye are yet in your sins.


1Cr 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.


1Cr 15:19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.


1Cr 15:20 ¶ But now is Christ risen from the dead, [and] become the firstfruits of them that slept.


1Cr 15:21 For since by man [came] death, by man [came] also the resurrection of the dead.


1Cr 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.


1Cr 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.


1Cr 15:24 Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.


1Cr 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.


1Cr 15:26 The last enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] death.


1Cr 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under [him, it is] manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.


1Cr 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.


1Cr 15:29 ¶ Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?


1Cr 15:30 And why stand we in jeopardy every hour?


1Cr 15:31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.


1Cr 15:32 If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die.


1Cr 15:33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.


1Cr 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak [this] to your shame.


1Cr 15:35 ¶ But some [man] will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?


1Cr 15:36 [Thou] fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:


1Cr 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other [grain]:


1Cr 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.


1Cr 15:39 All flesh [is] not the same flesh: but [there is] one [kind of] flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, [and] another of birds.


1Cr 15:40 [There are] also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial [is] one, and the [glory] of the terrestrial [is] another.


1Cr 15:41 [There is] one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for [one] star differeth from [another] star in glory.


1Cr 15:42 So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:


1Cr 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:


1Cr 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.


1Cr 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.


1Cr 15:46 Howbeit that [was] not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.


1Cr 15:47 The first man [is] of the earth, earthy: the second man [is] the Lord from heaven.


1Cr 15:48 As [is] the earthy, such [are] they also that are earthy: and as [is] the heavenly, such [are] they also that are heavenly.


1Cr 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.


1Cr 15:50 ¶ Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.


1Cr 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,


1Cr 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.


1Cr 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality.


1Cr 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.


1Cr 15:55 O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?


1Cr 15:56 The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.


1Cr 15:57 But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.


1Cr 15:58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.


But anyways, PV was trying to say i said something i did not, it is fact that Samuel was up disembodied from Sheol. Just trying to distract from the thread is all it was for imo.
 
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Debi1967

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Heb 2:14 Therefore because the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself in like manner hath been partaker of the same: that, through death, he might destroy him who had the empire of death, that is to say, the devil:
Heb 2:15 And might deliver them, who through the fear of death were all their lifetime subject to servitude.
Heb 2:16 For nowhere doth he take hold of the angels: but of the seed of Abraham he taketh hold.
Heb 2:17 Wherefore, it behoved him in all things to be made like unto his brethren, that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest before God, that he might be a propitiation for the sins of the people.
 
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sunlover1

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Samuel was used by God to give a message although the means by which he was brought forth was nemocracy.
How do we know that it was by God?
Just because something happens doesnt mean God initiated it.

Therefore showing that God can as the Devil can use evil for the means of Good as the Devil can use the means of Good for Evil in the long run.
A Given.
:thumbsup:

IOWs we can be easily decieved.
Amen

Who spoke through Samuel? Did Samuel's prophetic words come to pass because of the means used to call him forth? Was not even the witch scared because she knew it was Samuel speaking for God before her
If you read the prophecy Samuel gave and what exactly happened after you find some discrepencies if I remember right.
Which day did Samuel say they would die for instance...

Where did you read that Samuel was speaking for God?

sunlover
 
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PaladinValer

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Why is a non-Anglican using a Bible created under the auspecies of the Anglican Church arguing an actual Anglican how to read said Bible?! :D

Iollain, I'm sorry, but you're dead wrong. Creating a new thread and trying to tell me otherwise doesn't change the fact.

Jesus summoned the living souls of Moses and Elijah from sheol. They weren't alseep nor were they dead; they were alive. They weren't disembodied undead but ethereal-bodied living souls. That's what the KJV is saying.

Misdefine ghost from the KJV all you wish, but at least do not indignify yourself by telling an Anglican how to use and read the KJV!
 
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