Ghandi and Hitler

[Mr.Pious]

Allright I am sitting in my room board out of my skull, and I am just kinda curious.

I am sure you all know whom Ghandi is the great peacful revolutinary whom was one of the main protestors in getting rights back from britian.

Anyway lets say that Hitler
1.Did not commit suicide and just kinda died, but also before he died he repented his sin to god.

2.We all know that Ghandi was a Hindu, and did not worship a christian god.

Would Hitler go to heaven and Ghandi go to hell?

 

[jbarcher]

If you ask me, yes. Assuming, of course, Hitler's repentance and acceptance was genuine.

Basically, there is no distinction between Hitler and Ghandi. What they did in life doesn't mean anything if they aren't right with God.

 

[Mr.Pious]

wow and my mother wonders why I detest her religon...

 

[jbarcher]

So explain to her why, if the topic arises. This is a good question; a good thing to talk about.

 

[Rafael]

Allright I am sitting in my room board out of my skull, and I am just kinda curious.

I am sure you all know whom Ghandi is the great peacful revolutinary whom was one of the main protestors in getting rights back from britian.

Anyway lets say that Hitler
1.Did not commit suicide and just kinda died, but also before he died he repented his sin to god.

2.We all know that Ghandi was a Hindu, and did not worship a christian god.

Would Hitler go to heaven and Ghandi go to hell?

It's not really for man to judge. God judges according to what He has given, and is the only one fit to judge His creation. We have our opinions about what might happen to Hitler or Ghandi, but God is the only one who knows the hearts of men and the motivations of their lives.
I would advise looking into the scriptures and praying that God would open up to you His wisdom and truth for this short life, instead of relying on others opinions and hear-say. I used to do the same, but when it became important for me to know the truth, I had to rely on my own self to read and ask of Him to guide my efforts. First, a person must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those that seek Him.

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

 

[jbarcher]

Yes, raphe brings up a good point: who decides who goes to heaven? Hell?

Or, the question could be posed another way: is man in control of heaven and hell? If not, then who [or Who] is?

 

[seebs]

Would Hitler go to heaven and Ghandi go to hell?

We don't know.

If Hitler's repentence was sincere, then he'd presumably be saved. We don't know about Gandhi, though.

 

[seebs]

What they did in life doesn't mean anything if they aren't right with God.

It seems that what they did, and more importantly why they did it, is a good way for us to try to understand whether or not they were right with God.

 

[armed2010]

If you ask me, yes. Assuming, of course, Hitler's repentance and acceptance was genuine.

Basically, there is no distinction between Hitler and Ghandi. What they did in life doesn't mean anything if they aren't right with God.

And people wonder why im atheist

 

[Annabel Lee]

If you ask me, yes. Assuming, of course, Hitler's repentance and acceptance was genuine.

Basically, there is no distinction between Hitler and Ghandi. What they did in life doesn't mean anything if they aren't right with God.

No distinction between Hitler and Gandhi? Can you explain what you mean?

 

[jbarcher]

No distinction between Hitler and Gandhi? Can you explain what you mean?

Still sinners. Still without Christ, I assume.

---

I find this interesting, though. No matter how 'messed up' you are or how much wrong you've done, Christ still says, "I will forgive you".

---

Seebs, I find that the "no one is righteous" part was speaking directly about man-God relations, and the "good works are like filthy rags" indicates faith alone. I'm inclined towards sola fide. I do think, though, that part of God's mercy includes accepting those that have not heard.

And I have overstepped my bounds. No theologian, but just a 16 year old kid.

 

[armed2010]

Seems like hell would be a pretty good place to be, what with Einstein and Ghandi and other intellectuals being there.

 

[jbarcher]

As fun as that sounds, talking to great minds (not to say that there are not great Christian minds), I tend to think that you can't exactly communicate to one another in hell. Just a thought.

 

[wonder111]

Not all Christians will believe the same thing about this. The parable regarding the rich man, says that 'it is harder for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, than it is for a rich man to enter heaven'. This basically says impossible. However, when the people said 'who then can enter heaven?' Christ replied with God all things are possible. i think it's beyond our understanding. How does someone who was not born with the capacity to understand Christ, find him? It says that eternity is written on our hearts and in our conscience, so really only God can answer that one

 

[seebs]

Seebs, I find that the "no one is righteous" part was speaking directly about man-God relations, and the "good works are like filthy rags" indicates faith alone.

Ahh. I've always taken it to mean that good works in and of themselves don't mean anything; in other words, you can't just go through the motions of acting like a moral person.

I'm inclined towards sola fide. I do think, though, that part of God's mercy includes accepting those that have not heard.

And what of Gandhi, who allegedly once said he'd become a Christian if he ever met one? It seems to me he accepted Christ, but not Christianity.

And I have overstepped my bounds. No theologian, but just a 16 year old kid.

Don't apologize. You are doing what you should be doing, which is sharing your opinions, and listening to others. It's a good thing.

 

[Bonhoffer]

.... is that as Gandhi was dying the Holy Spirit came to him and said 'Jesus wants you' and with Gandhi being the highly spiritual man that he was then I think he would have accepted.

Therefore it is possible that Gandhi is in Heaven afterall

Maybe I'm wrong, but its just a feeling. We cannot know if someone accepted Jesus in the dying seconds of their life.

Although Gandhi was from a Hindu background he wasnt really a full beleiver in Hinduism. Sometimes he would talk about 'a' God!!

Now heres a great mystery!! Maybe Gandhi did find Jesus and did convert to Christianity, but just didnt tell anybody about it!! All that time he spent alone could have been talking to the Christian God. You might ask if this was true then why didnt he say anything about it?

Well put it this way; he was an Indian fellow fighting against British imperialism!! He would have lost a lot of support from his fellow countrymen if it became known he had embraced the Imperialist 'enemys' faith!!
So he would keep quiet for political reasons

He was known to have many Christian friends.

This is just my hope

 

[Karl - Liberal Backslider]

From a page on my website - http://freespace.virgin.net/karl_and.gnome/believe.htm

[size=+1]Salvation only for Christians[/size]
This comes from an image of God as unable to let anyone into heaven unless they sign on the doctrinal dotted line. But it is not what the Bible says! Firstly, it is clear that God is looking for reasons to save, not to condemn, any given person:

2 Peter 3:9

'The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.'

How can it be otherwise, if God loves people? Jesus’ statement ‘I am the way, the truth and the life. No-one comes to the Father except through me’ is often quoted in this regard. But we must look at this in the context of John’s gospel (where the saying occurs), which has, at its opening:

John 1:9

'The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.'

Lights every man - Not just those who believe a particular set of propositions. But wherever folk are enlightened to what is right and good, it is this Light who enlightens them. And when they follow that enlightenment, they follow that Light.

John goes on to talk about salvation and judgement in these terms:

John 3:19-21

'This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of the light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.'

Yes, access to God is through this Person, but we do not have to know His name. Jesus' claims of exclucivisity are correct; He and He alone is the reconciler between God and Man. But it is a far cry from that to saying that anyone who doesn't 'become a Christian' and sign on the correct dotted line is doomed to Hell. It is our attitude to the Light, to Grace and Truth, to Right and Wrong that matters. This is not salvation by works; it is not by doing the right things that God accepts us, but rather by our attitude - do we turn away from, or receive, the Light?

Looked at this way, it's quite clear that one can have every reason for confidence that one will find Ghandi in heaven. C S Lewis fans might like to think of Aslan and the man who had worshipped Tash but who nevertheless was received into Aslan's Country.

 

[Svt4Him]

Wow, talk about selective Scripture. Lets see:

John 3:19-21

'This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of the light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.'


18"He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

As for Hitler who repents, it's a nice emotional example, and if you are trying to envoke emotion, why not use Hitler. But Hitler will get what he deserves, so it's a hypothetical situation with no basis in reality. I can see how anyone would reject their parents religion because of hypothetical situations not based in reality.

 

[Rafael]

.... is that as Gandhi was dying the Holy Spirit came to him and said 'Jesus wants you' and with Gandhi being the highly spiritual man that he was then I think he would have accepted.

Therefore it is possible that Gandhi is in Heaven afterall

Maybe I'm wrong, but its just a feeling. We cannot know if someone accepted Jesus in the dying seconds of their life.

Although Gandhi was from a Hindu background he wasnt really a full beleiver in Hinduism. Sometimes he would talk about 'a' God!!

Now heres a great mystery!! Maybe Gandhi did find Jesus and did convert to Christianity, but just didnt tell anybody about it!! All that time he spent alone could have been talking to the Christian God. You might ask if this was true then why didnt he say anything about it?

Well put it this way; he was an Indian fellow fighting against British imperialism!! He would have lost a lot of support from his fellow countrymen if it became known he had embraced the Imperialist 'enemys' faith!!
So he would keep quiet for political reasons

He was known to have many Christian friends.

This is just my hope

Hang on to such hope, because love believes all things and gives the benefit of the doubt to God's ability and power to do what is right. God only becomes unjust in the imagination of man, and some just love to perceive evil done and accuse with little love or regard for the other person. So keep that hope for others, as it is exactly what God said about true love.
The fruits of a persons life may be judged for oneself, as we have to discern good from evil and follow what is good. The fruit of Hitler's life is evident by history, and is directly opposite of the fruit of Ghandi's life, but this life is now over and has passed from our judgment to the author and giver of life and His perfect justice. No need for us to judge heaven or hell, and in fact we are told to not judge these things that we have no power over. Of course we do have power to judge for ourselves.

1 Corinthians 13:7[love] beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

 

[Rafael]

And people wonder why im atheist

You see what you want to see in others, and if your eye is inclined to see the worst, then you have prejudice. People like to hedge and support what they want in this life, and if it takes sacrifice and giving, they may speak against such a lifestyle as Jesus had. Those that follow Him are sinners that make mistakes, and inevitably there are those that see them and use those mistakes as excuse for themselves and their own deeds. The Bible says that men preferred the darkness to the light so that their deeds and selfishness would remain hidden.

John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Luke 11:34 The light of the body is the eye: therefore when thine eye is single, thy whole body also is full of light; but when thine eye is evil, thy body also is full of darkness.

[Gill] as when the eye is free from vicious humours, and its sight is clear, the whole body reaps the advantage of it, and is perfectly illuminated by it; so when the eye of the understanding is opened and enlightened by the Spirit of God, into the truths of the Gospel, and a single regard is had unto them, and to the glory of Christ in them, the whole soul is filled with light, joy, and comfort: