Getting TONS of Negative Backlash for this tshirt? I DON'T KNOW WHY!

[faroukfarouk]

It's not wrong, but in a narcissistic society, such as ours, it will be met with contempt.

I guess such a reaction would say more about a narcissistic society than about the witness of Scripture.

 

[OpenYourBibles]

Make your next christian shirt say: "Are there any good men out there? How can find one?" This message is just as christian as the one you posted....maybe it will be received better.

Get the fellas mad at us too:
2 Thessalonians 3:10 For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: "If a man will not work, he shall not eat."

 

[Widlast]

I posted this new design up to my website (www.truechristiants.com). We sell tshirts with christian messages. We get the usual anti-christian comments and responses, but this shirts seems to have struck a nerve; and I can't figure out why!

See the actual page here: Virtuous Woman - Christian Tshirt - True Christian T's

What you have most likely run into is the modern habit of "being offended". If you do anything outside of the mainstream, or criticize the herd, you are going to get an ear full.

And BTW, there is a shortage of virtuous women, virtuous men in short supply also.
For Pete's sake don't point that out though.

 

[introverteen]

I posted this new design up to my website (www.truechristiants.com). We sell tshirts with christian messages. We get the usual anti-christian comments and responses, but this shirts seems to have struck a nerve; and I can't figure out why!

See the actual page here: Virtuous Woman - Christian Tshirt - True Christian T's

A text out of context is a pretext.
Not providing context is an abuse of Scripture not to mention being a less than helpful witness to God.
My advice - rethink.

 

[OpenYourBibles]

A text out of context is a pretext.
Not providing context is an abuse of Scripture not to mention being a less than helpful witness to God.
My advice - rethink.

I do not want to argue... I am simply trying to understand the thought process here -

How can it be "out of context" when the context is provided right there??? Again I want to understand the thought process. Do you see the message and react without any thought for what Prov 31:10 says. Why doesn't the reference change your outlook - or spark the question rather than spark contempt.

If that is not your position I apologize, but maybe you could help me figure out how some could take that position.

 

[FoundInGrace]

No offense but I wouldn't wear it, if i did it implies i'm trying to say I'm virtuous which is kind of conceited. Or saying here I am I'm virtuous I'm available and you won't find many like me... conceited. Because yes all you see is the words first not the proverbs reference. And women get Prov 31 held up all the time to them as how they should be and it's a standard few can ever reach so putting that reminder on a t-shirt is kind of holding up a reminder of what women struggle to live up to. Sort of like a male wearing a t-shirt that says ' Who can find a man with a high wage, practical handiman, with morals, is good with kids, listens and is romantic?'. No offense but you just dont get all that in one person and no guy is going to wear a t-shirt with that on it unless they are full of themselves.

So If a guy wore the virtuous woman t-shirt it's like he's complaining there are no good women around which puts down women in general as well.

 

[introverteen]

I do not want to argue... I am simply trying to understand the thought process here -

How can it be "out of context" when the context is provided right there??? Again I want to understand the thought process. Do you see the message and react without any thought for what Prov 31:10 says. Why doesn't the reference change your outlook - or spark the question rather than spark contempt.

If that is not your position I apologize, but maybe you could help me figure out how some could take that position.

I am not here to argue.

You asked for feedback I provided my small personal opinion with which you can take or leave.

Chapter and verse were not given by God.
Man put them there in the last 1000 years and it has turned our Bible into a textbook that people quote here and there without respect for context.
A verse's context belongs in the book in which it appears. If you are going to quote Scripture quote enough to draw the picture and be edifying not a one liner that could provoke misunderstanding and negative feedback.

In all honesty how many people viewing that piece of clothing will be familiar with the whole book of Proverbs?

In all honesty how many people will go home and read the whole book of Proverbs to get the context of that verse?

In all honesty did you not think it might cause some division and mockery?

In all honesty did you believe God would approve of His Word being used in this way?

In all honesty could you not see that this statement could be taken the wrong way by unbelievers and possibly hurt others by it?

As disciples of God we are not to be obnoxious to others or cause division.

I believe evangelism needs to be personal. It needs to come about conversationally and you need to know your audience to be guided by the Holy Spirit to lead them to edifying instruction. I think there are other ways of spreading the gospel and glorifying God than limiting His Word to plithy quotes on bumper stickers and apparel.

JUST MY SMALL PERSONAL OPINION.
WHICH IS JUST THAT, AN OPINION.

 

[OpenYourBibles]

I am not here to argue.

You asked for feedback I provided my small personal opinion with which you can take or leave.

I'm sorry I did not mean to accuse you of arguing. I was simply stating - before I say something contrary to what you posted, I have no intention of being argumentative I just want to understand the thought process. I didn't think you were arguing, I apologize for how that came off, and I truly appreciate your feedback!

 

[noam burde]

I posted this new design up to my website. We sell tshirts with christian messages. We get the usual anti-christian comments and responses, but this shirts seems to have struck a nerve; and I can't figure out why!

because there is a lot of people that have a need to accuse someone. and say some nasty stuff to someone. and just looking for excuse to do that. and a lot of them thought this is a good to excuse. because of ignorance.
business as usual on planet earth.

 

[Paidiske]

If you don't mind...

Workshop with me a little bit here...

What do you change to bring across the message - That a virtuous woman is worth far more than rubies! But still try to create a conversation?

Why don't you just put: "A virtuous woman is worth more than rubies"? Or whatever your preferred translation is. I rather like "A valiant woman is more precious than jewels."

I do not want to argue... I am simply trying to understand the thought process here -

How can it be "out of context" when the context is provided right there???

The context is not there. In order to give even the immediate context, you would need to quote the whole pericope - vv 10-31. As it is, your t-shirt provides no context, and leaves the readers to make of it what they will.

For what it's worth, if I saw that t-shirt being worn by someone, I'd cringe; on a man it seems to say he thinks most women are not virtuous (gee, thanks, sure I want to get to know him better already); on a woman it seems to say she thinks she's better than most of the rest of us (again, not exactly a great conversation starter).

 

[JackRT]

Perfectly fine to me, I don't find this shirt offensive at all. If someone takes an issue with the logo on the shirt then perhaps one must ask, is it really the logo that offends them or the Word of God? It's all Biblical and it's sadly all truth as it is hard to find a virtuous wife especially in todays society. I know me saying that may anger some, as speaking the truth is usually not accepted anymore but sadly it's the truth. What makes a woman virtuous is her love for Jesus, along with other things which can be found in Proverbs 31 and so forth.

I have met quite a few virtuous women. Not all have been Christian.

 

[Paidiske]

Virtue is not defined by Christianity. In fact, virtue as a concept predates Christianity; and as a discipline, is something any human being can participate in.

Please let's not fall into the trap of "anyone who's not Christian is a bad person." It's false, and ugly, and quite possibly one of the biggest reasons non-Christians are reluctant to explore Christianity; who wants to explore something that tells them they're worthless?

 

[JackRT]

Then they're not virtuous.

It pains me that you believe that. You should really get out more in the real world.

 

[Paidiske]

No, I don't think we do get all of our morals from God. I've observed plenty of disordered moral ideas, just for starters.

Historically, I mean that before the revelation of the person of Jesus Christ, human beings had quite sophisticated ethical systems. (Aristotle's is well worth a look). They did not understand this to necessarily have any relation to God. And today, we also have many people of other religions or no religion who have good ethical systems which they do not understand to have any relation to the Christian God.

Whatever we think of that - if we think that they know something of God's nature without recognising God, or whatever - if we say that these people "are not virtuous," as you did, then we deny that their ethical systems have any (recognised or unrecognised) relation to God, and we trash their ethical systems as worthless, which is a pretty awful thing to say (and on this site may be considered flaming).

And so far from being ashamed, I'm going to put this out there: I say this not just as a moderator, but as a priest in the church of God; saying such things harms our witness and impairs our relationships with others, and often does a disservice to the gospel.

 

[Paidiske]

If you think my position is not Biblical, please cite the Biblical references which support your position.

 

[Paidiske]

Most people develop their moral sense from their environment as they grow; their families, communities, societies and cultures. Since our environments are flawed, all of us tend to develop moral systems which are somewhat flawed. It's part of working out our salvation that we learn to correct the flaws in our moral systems. That's what I meant by saying that not all of our morals come from God.

I think the point of being a Christian is to be in relationship with God; good morals follows from that, but they're not the reason for Christianity. At least, not for me, and I suspect, not for most people.

And I think we are using the word "good" in two different senses here. Every human being sins and participates in evil to that extent. But this part of the conversation started when you claimed that someone who is not Christian cannot be virtuous; which I took to mean that they cannot have a robust ethical system. Many, many people - Christian and non-Christian - have good ethical systems, and that was what I was trying to point out. This does not negate the fact that we do all indeed sin.

 

[Paidiske]

I thought we started out talking about "good" in the sense of having an ethical framework for behaviour (virtue). In that sense - having an ethical framework for behaviour - of course an unsaved person can be good. Somewhere in our discussion that seems to have shifted to a sense of absolute goodness, or sinlessness, but that's not where we started.

While the Holy Spirit convicts us about sin, "morals" - having a sense of right and wrong - is something just about everyone has, saved or not. It's part of normal human development.

 

[RedPonyDriver]

Get the fellas mad at us too:
2 Thessalonians 3:10 For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: "If a man will not work, he shall not eat."

Yeah...totally taken out of context to deny social safety nets...study the context of that verse BEFORE you start spitting it out to everyone, OK? You'll discover it doesn't mean what you think it means.

 

[Phil 1:21]

Christianity gets a bad reputation, often deservedly so, on account of people using Bible verses to clobber people over the head. This shirt reinforces that notion, even if not intentionally so. If you are getting that much backlash from it, then you are turning off the very people you are trying to reach.