Getting Physical

[rodimus321]

Conscience isn't a good argument, some people could beat someone almost to the point of death without it effecting their conscience does that make it ok for them since it doesn't bother their conscience?

Umm, yes and no. You are right in general, but the problem isn't so simple when God says, for example, to avoid things that might make us stumble. That DOES change from person to person. As you point out yourself, kissing might be "difficult" for some people and not for others. Same thing with the "Jesus in the room" argument. What people would "feel comfortable doing" would vary from person to person.

Obviouly, some people will use this to "get away" with doing things that they shouldn't, but ultimately, because of the nature of this thing, we can't determine that for them. I think it's fair to say that a person's conscience should be their only guide in this area, but it should play a significant role.

The Bible says we also should not do things that could cause others to stumble.

My wife did nothing but kissed other people because she wanted to wait until marriage, the fact that I did things with other women and did not wait for her tore her up inside. It took six years for her to work through this. Maybe you don't like the Jesus example, but a friend of mine has another good example. What would you feel comfortable doing with your future spouse in the room watching. I'm sorry but you can use the argument of he or she might be my future spouse, been there done that and we didn't get married.

Another thought:
Can you makeout with someone without lusting for that person?

 

[renaistre]

Once again, I think you are making my point for me. I don't plan on even kissing before I get married, because I think it might be too far for me. But for your wife, it might not have been a problem. There are some limits that I think are definitely set out in the Bible, but I think in the area of kissing or cuddling and that sort of thing, it's very grey and open to both debate and individual decisions. And it doesn't really matter whether it is Jesus or your future spouse in the room. You are still saying "what would you feel comfortable with." Your words, not mine. That inherently implies something subjective. I actually think the Jesus-in-the-room analogy has some validity, but it still doesn’t make everything black and white.

My point about conscience is this: Of course some people don’t even have one. But if you have studied the Bible, talked with trusted friends and teachers, and prayed about it, in other words, your sincerely want to do what is right and you are trusting God to help you do it, at that point, you have to use your conscience or discretion or whatever you want to call it. Because even at that point, things will not be completely black and white.

 

[MetalBlade]

Well it really depends on the your, and her, preferences. As far as to far, I would say sex is to far.

 

[tashibana27]

"I actually meant it as what you guys thought, but I wrote it completely wrong, because I was in a hurry at work."

Well in that case, here are my thoughts =P

I highly dislike questions that ask what is permissible and what is not, especially in gray topics like these. Why even ask how far you can take it? Temptation is to be fled from, not played with or fought against! Let's say you're on a bike trail - why risk going off closer to the side of the trail? Yeah, the boundaries of the trail are there to protect you, but why risk it? Stay in the center of the road man, 'cuz you're pursing purity.

 

[rodimus321]

I highly dislike questions that ask what is permissible and what is not, especially in gray topics like these. Why even ask how far you can take it? Temptation is to be fled from, not played with or fought against! Let's say you're on a bike trail - why risk going off closer to the side of the trail? Yeah, the boundaries of the trail are there to protect you, but why risk it? Stay in the center of the road man, 'cuz you're pursing purity.

Amen to that!

I've worked with teens for 9 years and I have found that the reason they usually ask this is because they want approval for what they have already done or what they want to do. If you have to ask then you probably shouldn't be doing it in the first place.

 

[Princess Leia]

Well in that case, here are my thoughts =P

I highly dislike questions that ask what is permissible and what is not, especially in gray topics like these. Why even ask how far you can take it? Temptation is to be fled from, not played with or fought against! Let's say you're on a bike trail - why risk going off closer to the side of the trail? Yeah, the boundaries of the trail are there to protect you, but why risk it? Stay in the center of the road man, 'cuz you're pursing purity.

I agree.

God bless,
Princess Leia/Kendra

 

[ZACTAK]

I highly dislike questions that ask what is permissible and what is not, especially in gray topics like these. Why even ask how far you can take it? Temptation is to be fled from, not played with or fought against! Let's say you're on a bike trail - why risk going off closer to the side of the trail? Yeah, the boundaries of the trail are there to protect you, but why risk it? Stay in the center of the road man, 'cuz you're pursing purity.

Well, I actually asked it because I wanted to get how other people that are Christians measure up to what I believe. That is why I asked it.

Yes, temptation should be fled from, however a kiss for me might not tempt me more than just a kiss, where a kiss for you might tempt you to go further. It all depends on the person.

To sort of go along with your bike trail analogy, we are always going to be surrounded by temptation, regardless. We are all not the same people, you cannot measure what tempts me to what tempts you because it is going to differ significantly. The problem with your bike trail analogy is that everytime we leave our houses, we can be tempted by looking at another woman, or by looking at a man. We can turn that into lust and make it a huge stumbling block, but with your analogy, one could come to the conclusion that we shouldn't leave our house because we might become tempted. Again, temptation differs person to person and cannot be blanketed, you have to confront it on a person to person basis.

 

[ZACTAK]

Amen to that!

I've worked with teens for 9 years and I have found that the reason they usually ask this is because they want approval for what they have already done or what they want to do. If you have to ask then you probably shouldn't be doing it in the first place.

Just so you are aware, my motives for posting this question have nothing to do with the girl I am dating and I... we haven't done anything more since then and we just plan on taking our dating one step at a time... I asked out of simple curiousity.

 

[tashibana27]

Yes, temptation should be fled from, however a kiss for me might not tempt me more than just a kiss, where a kiss for you might tempt you to go further. It all depends on the person.

To sort of go along with your bike trail analogy, we are always going to be surrounded by temptation, regardless. We are all not the same people, you cannot measure what tempts me to what tempts you because it is going to differ significantly. The problem with your bike trail analogy is that everytime we leave our houses, we can be tempted by looking at another woman, or by looking at a man. We can turn that into lust and make it a huge stumbling block, but with your analogy, one could come to the conclusion that we shouldn't leave our house because we might become tempted. Again, temptation differs person to person and cannot be blanketed, you have to confront it on a person to person basis.

NFSteelers,

You are correct in saying that temptation attacks something specific to each person. You are also correct in pointing out we should not live in fear of temptation. But I never said, "Don't leave the house." Note that I said, "Stay in the center of the road man, 'cuz you're pursing purity." Perhaps I didn't make this clear. We are to flee from temptation, AND run to God. Yes, temptation is relative - everyone deals with their own sin and temptations - but there is only one God. We are to pursue God - and many times, we must deal with the stumbling blocks that prevent us from doing so. But our focus is not on relative temptation - our focus is on God. If the way of God is the center of that bike trail, then we must ride towards it. There's little point in asking how close we can come to the edge of the trail.

So the question remains. I am not asking you, "Do you think you're going too far?" That'll give me a subjective answer. I am asking you, "Are you seeking first and foremost purity and God in this relationship?" Let me put it in another way. If kissing is not temptation for you, then what is it? Glorifying God? Or is it self-gratification?

I'm sorry for having to bust your chops like this, but I know where you're coming from - I've had some very dangerously physical relationships myself. You cannot deny that kissing is a form of intimacy - an important stepping stone in climbing the mountain of relationships and commitments. But commitments are made to last, not to be broken. And if you're not sure where the relationship is going and will be going (i.e. not ready to commit), then that stepping stone is best not taken.

I dunno if you play poker, but I think it's a good analogy. Unless your cards are good, there's no reason to be pot-committed. It's generally not a good idea to call bets or make raises when your cards can't stand up to it. Because once you're pot committed, you either go all in, or you fold and lose a lot of money. Loose pokers players lose a lot of money, because they just want to see that next card. Unfortunately, they're blind to how much it'll cost them!

 

[louis6]

I say you should set your limitations to whatever will cause you or her to begin thinking sexual thoughts or become stimulated. Don't become comfort with doing routine things that you know will lead you guys to wanting more if you know what i mean.

That leaves holding hands?

 

[renaistre]

That leaves holding hands?

It depends. For some people, yes.

 

[sweetlambofgod]

it is important to talk to your partner about this before anything happens. you both need to set your limits and and respect each others. Personally I see nothign wrong with cuddling, making out, holding hands etc. I know my limits.

 

[Leanna]

The first night you met someone you cuddled on the couch watching a movie??? Wow. I wouldn't call this a deep relationship with true interest in one another's PERSONALITY.... and since you started already with the cuddling, theres not as far to go from here....

bad start to a relationship there

 

[sweetlambofgod]

be careful sounds like your judging someone there

 

[tashibana27]

i always wondered if calling someone judgmental was a judgment in itself

(is this post hypocritcal?)

 

[RedKnight]

If you think about some thoughts or stuff your body wants to do when your with her or around her that can become a big thing to if you think its like sex then its like sex.

 

[barefeetonholyground]

I don't want to go any further than I would want to see my kids go.

 

[sweetlambofgod]

Our father is always watching, don't do anything you wouldn't do in front of him

 

[CottonBall]

I think cuddling is completely harmless. Although for others it might be very dangerous. I have enough self control not to go too far when it comes to cuddling.

I've got to warn you, only because I've been sucked into this problem before. Satan attacks us where we are weak, obviously, but he also attacks us where we are TOO confident.

For years I took great pride in the fact that I was able to stop myself at cuddling and go no further. The accidental and unfortunate loss of my purity later I am here to warn you cuddling isn't "completely harmless" when we live in a world with such strong sexual seduction and desires which are paired up with satan and his fleet of demons.

I'm not telling you to live in fear, because you have strength in Christ, but I am telling you to live in caution because of the weakness of your flesh.

Is it okay to cuddle? yes. Can an overexposure of physical contact arouse you? YES. Does satan attempt to kill two birds with one sexual stone? ALL THE TIME!! Just be careful, things can go wrong so much faster than you think.