Germany's Catholic Church Just Took An Amazing Step For LGBT And Remarried Catholics

[Fish and Bread]

Link:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/05/15/german-catholic-bishops-lgbt_n_7287128.html?utm_hp_ref=tw

Excerpt:

The Catholic Church in Germany is taking a stand for its remarried, lesbian, and gay employees.

More than two-thirds of Germany’s 27 Roman Catholic dioceses voted in favor of relaxing the morality clauses in employee contracts, a church spokesman confirmed to Reuters on Tuesday.

The change means that getting remarried after a divorce or being part of a same-sex union is no longer grounds for automatic dismissal from a job at a church institution.

In the past, such violations of the morality clause have been “often ignored” by church officials, the National Catholic Register reports. Officially changing the labor law will allow the church to show German Catholics that it is adapting to modern lifestyles.

“The new rule opens the way for decisions that do justice to the situations people live in,” Alois Glueck, a prominent lay Catholic leader, told Reuters.

I prefer to the approach that Germany is taking to this situation to the approach that the Archbishop of San Francisco is taking. I think it demonstrates that the Archbishop of San Francisco's approach is by no means the only approach possible under Catholic teaching and canon law. A lot of bishops in Germany are handling things in a different, more pastorally sensitive, way, in my opinion.

 

[topcare]

That's awful. The Church should be the bulwark of Faith and not change to meet society, it is society that should change to meet the Church.

 

[bill5]

I guess you'd have to define "job at a church institution" for me. I don't care if their janitor or guy mowing the yard is gay. I do however care if they're doing something more intrinsic and/or visible within the church. As the poster above said, society is not the ultimate authority (and I mean this both literally and figuratively when I say "thank God").

 

[pdudgeon]

Psalm 1: 1-3
"Blessed is the man who walks not in the counsel of the wicked, nor stands in the way of sinners, nor sits in the seat of scoffers;
But his delight is in the law of the Lord, and on that law he meditates day and night.
He is like a tree planted by streams of water, that yields its fruit in its season, and its leaf does not wither.
In all that he does, he prospers."

it would seem to me that the leaders of the Church in Germany might want to review the above Psalm.
On the one hand there is compassion which is good. But when compassion guides the moral compass rather than the established teachings of the church and the word of God, then those persons are in danger of becoming as lost as the very people that they are trying to minister to, and also in danger of forgetting what is right in the sight of God.
And that is a very deep hole indeed.

 

[AvilaSurfer]

The headline, if true, should really by something like Germany takes a step toward schism. This is really horrible news. The Catholic Church is not a democracy, nor should it be.
I think it's a bad move to get my religious news from that rag website.

 

[bill5]

Yes, because ignorance is bliss.

 

[ebia]

Psalm 1: 1-3
"Blessed is the man who walks not in the counsel of the wicked, nor stands in the way of sinners, nor sits in the seat of scoffers;
But his delight is in the law of the Lord, and on that law he meditates day and night.
He is like a tree planted by streams of water, that yields its fruit in its season, and its leaf does not wither.
In all that he does, he prospers."

Well, that cuts out pretty much all of us.

 

[ebia]

B

The headline, if true, should really by something like Germany takes a step toward schism. This is really horrible news. The Catholic Church is not a democracy, nor should it be.
I think it's a bad move to get my religious news from that rag website.

between whom? The Catholic Church here doesn't have such clauses in the contract of its employees such as teachers. I'd imagine the same is true in a lot of countries.

 

[mark46]

The headline, if true, should really by something like Germany takes a step toward schism. This is really horrible news. The Catholic Church is not a democracy, nor should it be.
I think it's a bad move to get my religious news from that rag website.

I guess there will be a lot of schisms if churches split over being able to fire their gay janitors.

 

[Leevo]

Hmm, I was under the impression that Homosexuality is considered sin? I hope this is false. If it isn't that means that practicing homosexuals can openly practice in the Church and even be employed by the church with no consequences? Hmm...

 

[ebia]

Hmm, I was under the impression that Homosexuality is considered sin?

And the statement makes it clear that remains the case. But we don't normally refuse to employ anyone sinful, or we'd lack any employees.

I hope this is false. If it isn't that means that practicing homosexuals can openly practice in the Church and even be employed by the church with no consequences? Hmm...

Hopefully nobody is practicing sex in the Church. If that's a problem get security cameras.

 

[Leevo]

And the statement makes it clear that remains the case. But we don't normally refuse to employ anyone sinful, or we'd lack any employees.

Yea, but if they are in a Same-Sex union then they do not seem to care about their sin and are practicing continually without repentance. This is the problem.

Hopefully nobody is practicing sex in the Church. If that's a problem get security cameras.

I think you know what I meant when I said practicing while in the Church.

 

[ebia]

Yea, but if they are in a Same-Sex union then they do not seem to care about their sin and are practicing continually without repentance.

Some may not recognise it as sin.
Others may, but may not care.
Others may be struggling as best they can.

I've never met anyone who didn't have some kind of sin that would fall into each of those categories: something they don't recognise as sinful, something they do but engage in anyway without real repentence (often around greed, consumerism or hatred) and sometning they struggle with.

 

[Rhamiel]

The change means that getting remarried after a divorce or being part of a same-sex union is no longer grounds for automatic dismissal from a job at a church institution.


well that's good
it should not be automatic for all church employees
like Bill5 said, I do not think that a janitor or accountant should loose automatically loose his position just because he is a homosexual, these things have to be dealt with on a case by case basis in a pastoral manner

now of those who are teachers or in leadership positions, well then yes, that should be automatic
but it should not be automatic for all positions of employment

 

[football5680]

Don't really have a problem with this because "job" is a broad term that could include positions where somebody being Catholic would be irrelevant. It would only be relevant if they held a position of authority within the Church. One aspect that I don't like is that it seems like this decision was made independent of the World Wide Church. They should have gotten Church approval before proceeding forward so that it didn't look like they were acting on their own.

 

[ebia]

Don't really have a problem with this because "job" is a broad term that could include positions where somebody being Catholic would be irrelevant. It would only be relevant if they held a position of authority within the Church. One aspect that I don't like is that it seems like this decision was made independent of the World Wide Church. They should have gotten Church approval before proceeding forward so that it didn't look like they were acting on their own.

You seem to presume that such clauses exist in contracts generally in the world wide church. They don't here - at least for teachers.

 

[pdudgeon]

having differing regional interpretations of church doctrine on the subject shouldn't be a problem. if it is a problem, then it should be corrected.
However having those differing opinions is nothing new. Jesus addressed it in the Gospels when He said "You have heard it said...but I tell you..."

It does help to go back to the original source for clarification whenever there are questions like this one.
If we forget that, then it is all too easy to let the morals of the world dictate to the Church of God, when it should be the Church instructing the world on such things.

 

[MoreCoffee]

The Catholic Church in Germany is taking a stand for its remarried, lesbian, and gay employees.

More than two-thirds of Germany’s 27 Roman Catholic dioceses voted in favor of relaxing the morality clauses in employee contracts, a church spokesman confirmed to Reuters on Tuesday.

The change means that getting remarried after a divorce or being part of a same-sex union is no longer grounds for automatic dismissal from a job at a church institution.

In the past, such violations of the morality clause have been “often ignored” by church officials, the National Catholic Register reports. Officially changing the labor law will allow the church to show German Catholics that it is adapting to modern lifestyles.

“The new rule opens the way for decisions that do justice to the situations people live in,” Alois Glueck, a prominent lay Catholic leader, told Reuters.

That's awful. The Church should be the bulwark of Faith and not change to meet society, it is society that should change to meet the Church.

The dignity of mankind, care for employees, and the principle of subsidiarity ought to guide in matters like this. Employers do not have power over an employee's home and home life therefore employers ought not discriminate unfavourably against private home life arrangements such as who one chooses to live with.

 

[pdudgeon]

The dignity of mankind, care for employees, and the principle of subsidiarity ought to guide in matters like this. Employers do not have power over an employee's home and home life therefore employers ought not discriminate unfavourably against private home life arrangements such as who one chooses to live with.

really?

in the world that might be so. but as Christians our first allegiance is to God, our employer is God, our wages are from God, and our gifts, services, and worship are given to God.

 

[FlaviusAetius]

Here's hoping the LGBT of Germany don't take this opportunity too infiltrate the Catholic Church through layman positions at parishes. Not as worried about divorcees and the remarried, they don't tend to have as big of a bone too pick with Catholicism.

It's also too bad that this news allows liberals to continue their false hope that one day Catholicism will fall into degeneracy like the Anglicans and other Protestants; allowing homosexuality and feminism too decay their churches and divide their followers.