Germany gets contracts for american highspeed train system

[ErikSteiner]

USA want build a highspeed train system and it looks like we got the contract.. Thats a billion $ contract. German corporations like Siemens, Krupp and the Deutsche Bahn will build up the entire railway system including several ICE trains. The ICE will be modified for our US customer.
It will be a modified version of our ICE 3 system.

Thats good news. Both of us will profit.

We earn a good contract and you guys get the best product you can get.

 

[lordbt]

Thats great. Unfortunately, the only ones who wont benefit are the US taxpayers who will foot the bill for the construction of this boondoggle, then spend the rest of eternity subsidizing riderless rail cars.

 

[ErikSteiner]

Thats great. Unfortunately, the only ones who wont benefit are the US taxpayers who will foot the bill for the construction of this boondoggle, then spend the rest of eternity subsidizing riderless rail cars.

Thats not true. Our ICE trains are highspeed trains with high comfort. The 1st class is world famous. They are a technological masterpiece and best example for the quality of german engineering. Airplanes are not a concept of the future. Due to high gas prices the air traffic will drop. The ICE is a good alternative for airtraffic. And its almost the same speed. You don´t have the check in time and all that.

The only problem we have at the moment is to make it compatible to your climate. In germany we have moderate climate with not that huge differences. In your country it can be that the train starts in deep snow and 3 hours later is in subtropical climate. Thats the reason why they modify the ICE3 model for the american market.

 

[IbrahimFahim]

Thats not true. Our ICE trains are highspeed trains with high comfort. The 1st class is world famous. They are a technological masterpiece and best example for the quality of german engineering. Airplanes are not a concept of the future. Due to high gas prices the air traffic will drop. The ICE is a good alternative for airtraffic. And its almost the same speed. You don´t have the check in time and all that.

The only problem we have at the moment is to make it compatible to your climate. In germany we have moderate climate with not that huge differences. In your country it can be that the train starts in deep snow and 3 hours later is in subtropical climate. Thats the reason why they modify the ICE3 model for the american market.

You are speaking to people who are completely unfamiliar with high speed rail. It is "different" and therefore bad.

 

[mindlight]

Thats not true. Our ICE trains are highspeed trains with high comfort. The 1st class is world famous. They are a technological masterpiece and best example for the quality of german engineering. Airplanes are not a concept of the future. Due to high gas prices the air traffic will drop. The ICE is a good alternative for airtraffic. And its almost the same speed. You don´t have the check in time and all that.

The only problem we have at the moment is to make it compatible to your climate. In germany we have moderate climate with not that huge differences. In your country it can be that the train starts in deep snow and 3 hours later is in subtropical climate. Thats the reason why they modify the ICE3 model for the american market.

You are missing the point. The quality of the product is not in question here. Its whether it would actually get used in a country which is overwhelmingly a car/plane culture. America as a culture has yet to be convinced on the whole Global Warming argument even though it may seem an obvious benefit of rail travel to a German.

 

[IbrahimFahim]

You are missing the point. The quality of the product is not in question here. Its whether it would actually get used in a country which is overwhelmingly a car/plane culture. America as a culture has yet to be convinced on the whole Global Warming argument even though it may seem an obvious benefit of rail travel to a German.

See what I mean?

 

[ErikSteiner]

Hm...don´t you think that opinion there can be changed? I think if you make commercials, get people used to it and make good publicity then it can be a big sucess.

 

[lordbt]

You are speaking to people who are completely unfamiliar with high speed rail. It is "different" and therefore bad.

Except that you are completely wrong. No one is saying it is bad because it is different. You see, Americans have a pretty good idea what a train is and can make the intellectual leap to understanding what a fast train is. The issue is whether or not it will pay for itself. I say no way.

 

[ErikSteiner]

Except that you are completely wrong. No one is saying it is bad because it is different. You see, Americans have a pretty good idea what a train is and can make the intellectual leap to understanding what a fast train is. The issue is whether or not it will pay for itself. I say no way.

Why does it pay for itself evrywhere else? In germany its very profitable.

 

[IbrahimFahim]

Hm...don´t you think that opinion there can be changed? I think if you make commercials, get people used to it and make good publicity then it can be a big sucess.

Honestly, no. I've been here for about a decade, and what I have noticed is that most Americans are grossly undereducated on issues like this, but refuse to admit the deficit. High Speed rail is cheaper, cleaner, and generally more comfortable, but they will never understand because they will never try to understand.

Here is what you are going to hear...

"It won't work here"

...this is the mantra by which America exists now. Everywhere else in the modern, industrialized world some form on national health care exists. THe people are healthier, live longer, etc... but when it comes to America?

"It won't work here"

Everywhere else in the modern industrialized world national educational systems exist with union involvement and government standards. In America?

"It won't work here"

Nothing works in America.

High Speed rail will not work either, not because it cannot, but because Americans will not permit it to.

 

[IbrahimFahim]

Except that you are completely wrong. No one is saying it is bad because it is different. You see, Americans have a pretty good idea what a train is and can make the intellectual leap to understanding what a fast train is. The issue is whether or not it will pay for itself. I say no way.

See what I mean?

 

[ErikSteiner]

yes i see...

well USA can rise taxes on gas prices to make it even more attarctive. Sometimes you must force people to their luck.

 

[IbrahimFahim]

yes i see...

well USA can rise taxes on gas prices to make it even more attarctive. Sometimes you must force people to their luck.

That is a very, very good idea (which is why..."It won't work here")

 

[RedDead1981]

I think it would work here. However, there's more to it than slapping some rails down and chugging away. America really embraces the automobile and the highway as its primary method of transportation. That would, in large part, have to be replaced. It would mean a lot of growing pains for a lot of people and companies.

That said, I think it's a good idea. But it wouldn't be a smooth transition. Short term loss for long term gain, and that's a hard sell.

And no matter what some may say, change is hard. For anybody.

 

[IbrahimFahim]

I think it would work here. However, there's more to it than slapping some rails down and chugging away. America really embraces the automobile and the highway as its primary method of transportation. That would, in large part, have to be replaced. It would mean a lot of growing pains for a lot of people and companies. And no matter what some may say, change is hard. For anybody.

It definitely could work, but Americans will not let it. Lots of things could work, but will not. Health care, educations, business regulation, etc... all of it fails when crossing into American territory. It is like some sort of weird Twilight Zone where the laws of normal society cease to exist.

 

[Douger]

I would be very happy to see a good passenger rail system installed as an alternative to busses and airplanes.
It would be a tremendous boost to the economy as right now, travel by bus or car can be prohibitively lengthy while travel by air can be prohibitively expensive.

 

[RETS]

I'm all for it. A truly decent rail system would be great, not to mention the competition it would offer other train lines. (wait...)

Sometimes you must force people to their luck.

Which is why this is the United States, and that's Germany.

It definitely could work, but Americans will not let it. Lots of things could work, but will not. Health care, educations, business regulation, etc... all of it fails when crossing into American territory. It is like some sort of weird Twilight Zone where the laws of normal society cease to exist.

Son, if you're the example of "normal society," I'm quite happy with my "Twilight Zone."

 

[IbrahimFahim]

I'm all for it. A truly decent rail system would be great, not to mention the competition it would offer other train lines. (wait...)




Which is why this is the United States, and that's Germany.




Son, if you're the example of "normal society," I'm quite happy with my "Twilight Zone."

I've challenged you to a formal debate. If you believe that I am intellectually inadequate, then by all means take me up. If not, then your attempts to insult my intelligence are little more than avoidances.

 

[lordbt]

yes i see...

well USA can rise taxes on gas prices to make it even more attarctive. Sometimes you must force people to their luck.

First of all, if you want to understand why I think it wont work, you are best not trying to follow the non argument of people who dont know what they are talking about. But your point about raising taxes on fuel proves my point--that would amount to taxpayers subsidizing a mode of transportation that no on wants. The success or failure of high speed rail would largely depend upon cost and convenience. If your goal is to make high speed rail more attractive by making everything else more costly, you have not put forth a good product. You are just engaging in a tyrannical control of the public.

 

[IbrahimFahim]

First of all, if you want to understand why I think it wont work, you are best not trying to follow the non argument of people who dont know what they are talking about. But your point about raising taxes on fuel proves my point--that would amount to taxpayers subsidizing a mode of transportation that no on wants. The success or failure of high speed rail would largely depend upon cost and convenience. If your goal is to make high speed rail more attractive by making everything else more costly, you have not put forth a good product. You are just engaging in a tyrannical control of the public.

"It won't work in America"

How sad nothing works in America!!!