I can't count how many times I've been asked why the sun is never between Mars and Jupiter...
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Geocentricity and Stellar Parallax
- Thread starter RichardT
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I can't count how many times I've been asked why the sun is never between Mars and Jupiter...
And again, why does the center of mass Earth-Sun system not obey Newtonian mechanics according to your model?
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I think Tycho Brahe himself would think you were nuts. Brahe rejected the Copernican model because no one had observed stellar parallax. He believed that stellar parallax should be obvious to the naked eye. He was wrong. You need a telescope to observe stellar parallax. If Tycho Brahe were alive today he would throw out his own model.
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I can’t count how many times you have answered with massive hypothetical objects, undetectable particles, sentient forces, or Mr. Bouw said …
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Ok... but so what? It's a fair enough question given the history of thought on the subject, and easily answered. I understand now that you're proposing a Tychonic system in which the planets (except, for reasons with which I'm not satisfied, Earth) orbit the Sun. There... fixed.
Now, did you have any further thoughts on what I posted about geosynchronous satellites and the misrepresented quotes from Einstein on Dr. Bouw's site?
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The question was about Mars and Jupiter. Your image on the first page show just this sort of orbit. But why is such a positioning of the Sun, Mars, and Jupiter never seen?
You've not given an explanation of this.
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You’ve been explaining something? Where’s the post that explains why the other planets are not influenced by the Earth’s mass?
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OK. This is pretty simple. Mars is 1.52 AU from the Sun according to "Universe" 5th ed. So there should be some time when the Sun, which orbits the Earth at 1 AU (according to your model), extends past the orbit of Mars.
Your saying this doesn't happen in your model? Why not? Do you have a diagram that shows the actual situation? You seem to say that the diagrams on the first page of the thread don't depict the actual situation according to your model. Do you have a diagram that does show what happens according to your model?
P.S. Richard, don't feel too badly. You're going through what every scientist goes through when a new theory is presented.
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He's proposing a modified form of the Tychonic model. It takes care of that (and is well understood to do so). There isn't actually anything wrong with it geometrically.
However, the system does have two major flaws:
1) It isn't consistent with gravity
2) It isn't consistent with gravity
I know that, technically, that's only one reason, but it's such a good one I thought it was worth saying it twice...
(with apologies to Kryten).
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He's proposing a modified form of the Tychonic model. It takes care of that (and is well understood to do so). There isn't actually anything wrong with it geometrically.
However, the system does have two major flaws:
1) It isn't consistent with gravity
2) It isn't consistent with gravity
I know that, technically, that's only one reason, but it's such a good one I thought it was worth saying it twice...
(with apologies to Kryten).
The entire purpose of this thread was to in fact show that stellar parallax was not a problem for the modified Tychonic system, now that this has been conceded by most of us, I am quite satisfied. I'll have to get into the history of gravitation, relativity, quantum therory, because we use gravity as a constant all the time in our calculations. I've simplified it by saying that as long as looking at the sun as a reference frame, as long as the earth seems to orbit the sun, gravitation is satisfied.
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And we are saying that Newtonian gravity (which is a perfectly legitimate approximation for speeds involved in the Solar System) is reference-independent, and thus you are still wrong.
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It took a bit to remember Richard's description: the other planets orbit the Sun and along with everything else orbits the Earth. Still, I can't see how in Richard's model the Sun can't come between Mars and Jupiter (maybe my imagination fails me right now, it's been a long week). These distances are well agreed upon. If it is well understood that the Tychonic model fixes this problem can you help me understand this?
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...except that it is additional evidence in support of the theories of Copernicus, Kepler and Newton which were very well established by the time stellar parallax was discovered.
Not only that, but that you have no mechanism to explain this effect.
As has been pointed out already, Tycho Brahe made his feelings pretty clear on this also.
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If you want to take a completely classical approach to it, I'm told that G. Burniston Brown arrived at geocentric solutions simply using a classical approach. I don't have the paper myself but I wish I did.
Brown, G. B., 1955. Proceedings of the Phys. Soc. B, 68:672.
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I most likely have access to the paper through my university's library. I'll check it out later tonight or tomorrow.
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That reminds me, I should plan to go to the Toronto reference library again sometime. I really didn't realize how amazing reference libraries were until recently.
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"you're told" that? By whom?
Allow me to take a wild and completely random guess... you got it from here:
http://www.geocentricity.com/geocentricity/primer.pdf
(which simply states that that is the conclusion of said paper, without any explanation or elaboration whatsoever).
Was my guess correct?
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It turns out I have access to an online copy (my employer provides very good online journal access, as it happens). It's entitled "A Theory of Action-at-a-Distance". Unfortunately, I can't post a link to it, because it wouldn't work for you.
I'll read it over the weekend and see what it has to say. Hopefully you'll get to find it in a library also.
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