Why is it ok to accept that the earth orbits the sun, but not that life has evolved, since both seem to contradict a literal biblical interpretation?
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Geocentric Universe and Evolution
- Thread starter Cosmic Hippo
- Start date
Because heliocentricity has been around longer than evolution and has gained more general acceptance.
Creationism is only enjoyed by a minority of fundamentalists (and seems to be a largely American phenomenon, at that). Eventually it will go the way of geocentrism and flat-Earthism.
Creationism is only enjoyed by a minority of fundamentalists (and seems to be a largely American phenomenon, at that). Eventually it will go the way of geocentrism and flat-Earthism.
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ReUsAbLePhEoNiX
Liberated from SinComplex
I was under the impression that most world wide christians were YEC, but I grew up in fundamentalist Southern American culture. I have read many sources saying YEC is mostly American, interesting aspect of American culturePete Harcoff said:
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It is starting to grow in Australia from what im told, but yeah, its mainly an American thing, but at the same time, I believe America has one of the Highest percentages of Christians in the world and definatly one of the higherest percentages of Fundementalist christians.
From reading creationist sights one of the reasons that Heliocentric and Flat Earth is not accepted is because they have either twisted or brushed off most of the scripture that supports it. A very interesting behavior that is mirrored in how they accept science (if it doesnt match their personal views, its wrong).
From reading creationist sights one of the reasons that Heliocentric and Flat Earth is not accepted is because they have either twisted or brushed off most of the scripture that supports it. A very interesting behavior that is mirrored in how they accept science (if it doesnt match their personal views, its wrong).
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On one of the flood thread Mikelaughs wrote
"The fact remains, nowhere in the Bible does God say that the sun revolves around the earth."
I think it is off topic and since we have this thread I thought it should be discussed here.
Whether or not it explicitly says the sun rotates the earth the Bible seems clearly geocentric and there are some geocentrists still around.
Malcolm Bowden who occasionally writes nonsense for the grossly missnamed True Origins Archive is one
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/bowdenmalcolm/geocexpl.htm
Perhaps the best known is the Biblical Astronomer Geradus Bouw
http://www.geocentricity.com/whygeocentricity.htm
Does the Bible say the sun goes around the earth. Prior to Copernicus and even for some time after Biblical scholars certainly thought so.
The earth is fixed and immovable.
1 Chronicles 16:30: Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.
Psalm 93:1 The LORD reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the LORD is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is established, that it cannot be moved.
Psalm 96:10: Say among the heathen that the LORD reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved: he shall judge the people righteously....
Psalm 104:5: Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.
and that;
The sun goes around it.
Ecclesiastes 1, 5:The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose.
Psalm 19:4-6 Their line [the heavens] is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun, Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race. His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof." (I added the bold)
And of course Joshua stopped the sun, not the rotation of the earth.
Joshua 10:12-13: Then spake Joshua to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon. And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.
Note, that if he was stopping the rotation of the earth the moon would have stopped on its own without him telling it to.
Then there is Isaiah 38:8
"Behold, I will bring again the shadow of the degrees...ten degrees backward. So THE SUN RETURNED ten degrees, by which degrees it was gone down...." (Isaiah 38:8)
The Frumious Bandersnatch
"The fact remains, nowhere in the Bible does God say that the sun revolves around the earth."
I think it is off topic and since we have this thread I thought it should be discussed here.
Whether or not it explicitly says the sun rotates the earth the Bible seems clearly geocentric and there are some geocentrists still around.
Malcolm Bowden who occasionally writes nonsense for the grossly missnamed True Origins Archive is one
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/bowdenmalcolm/geocexpl.htm
Perhaps the best known is the Biblical Astronomer Geradus Bouw
http://www.geocentricity.com/whygeocentricity.htm
Does the Bible say the sun goes around the earth. Prior to Copernicus and even for some time after Biblical scholars certainly thought so.
The earth is fixed and immovable.
1 Chronicles 16:30: Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.
Psalm 93:1 The LORD reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the LORD is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is established, that it cannot be moved.
Psalm 96:10: Say among the heathen that the LORD reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved: he shall judge the people righteously....
Psalm 104:5: Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.
and that;
The sun goes around it.
Ecclesiastes 1, 5:The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose.
Psalm 19:4-6 Their line [the heavens] is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun, Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race. His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof." (I added the bold)
And of course Joshua stopped the sun, not the rotation of the earth.
Joshua 10:12-13: Then spake Joshua to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon. And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.
Note, that if he was stopping the rotation of the earth the moon would have stopped on its own without him telling it to.
Then there is Isaiah 38:8
"Behold, I will bring again the shadow of the degrees...ten degrees backward. So THE SUN RETURNED ten degrees, by which degrees it was gone down...." (Isaiah 38:8)
The Frumious Bandersnatch
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ObbiQuiet said:
Here is the famous quote from Cardinal Belleramine
"To assert that the earth revolves around the sun
is as erroneous to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin."
The Frumious Bandersnatch
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Before someone pops in and argues that it was not the Church, but scientist who came up with geocentrism, I will add this as I did in the other thread:
"but the point about geocentrism is not where it originated, it is that the Church believed it and, more importantly, believed that the Bible said it, based on a literal and plain reading of Scripture (I don't have the exact verses here, but I am sure someone can toss them in). In fact, they believed so strongly that the Bible said it so clearly that they made it a heresy to say otherwise."
And really, this IS the point. The bottom line is that the Church was not defending its position on geocentrism (once adopted) based on scientific grounds, but on Biblical and theological grounds. Not only did they believe that a literal reading of the Bible required geocentrism, they also thought it was theologically ESSENTIAL that the Earth be the center of the universe (for a lot of reasons). Just as today the YEC's believe not only that their beliefs are required by the Scripture, but that believing them is ESSENTIAL theologically. They argue all the awful theological consequences if they accepted the truth of the physical evidence.
Well, guess what? When geocentrism was proved to be false, it did not effect the Bible's believeabitlity at all, AND they found that altering their theoligical positions did not ultimately damage the message of the Bible one iota.
Someday . . .
"but the point about geocentrism is not where it originated, it is that the Church believed it and, more importantly, believed that the Bible said it, based on a literal and plain reading of Scripture (I don't have the exact verses here, but I am sure someone can toss them in). In fact, they believed so strongly that the Bible said it so clearly that they made it a heresy to say otherwise."
And really, this IS the point. The bottom line is that the Church was not defending its position on geocentrism (once adopted) based on scientific grounds, but on Biblical and theological grounds. Not only did they believe that a literal reading of the Bible required geocentrism, they also thought it was theologically ESSENTIAL that the Earth be the center of the universe (for a lot of reasons). Just as today the YEC's believe not only that their beliefs are required by the Scripture, but that believing them is ESSENTIAL theologically. They argue all the awful theological consequences if they accepted the truth of the physical evidence.
Well, guess what? When geocentrism was proved to be false, it did not effect the Bible's believeabitlity at all, AND they found that altering their theoligical positions did not ultimately damage the message of the Bible one iota.
Someday . . .
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I wish I could find the link, but I bookmarked a link to an article awhile ago, where about 10 years ago, the Pope Finally Admited, officially, that the Heliocentric model was right.
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What about the planets, do they orbit the sun or the earth?
(they are really the important aspect between the two models)
(they are really the important aspect between the two models)
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Nope, even though I have shown him the literal reading where gods word says the earth is flat, he continues to believe in man made science and that the earth is round.
That of course, does bring into question whether he really believes a literal bible, or only his opinion of a literal bible.
That of course, does bring into question whether he really believes a literal bible, or only his opinion of a literal bible.
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Mechanical Bliss
Secrecy and accountability cannot co-exist.
So he really does believe in "man's science" over the so-called "Truth of the Bible"...how ironic!
Are we really certain he's not a troll? I mean, at least YECism is something we see here quite often despite its many errors and falsifications, but geocentrism?! I didn't think that people would be so willfully ignorant these days, but I guess I shouldn't be so surprised. Furthermore, this is a poster who makes effectively content-less posts on the science forum that have nothing to do with science and show clearly zero desire to actually discuss science except from a completely ignorant viewpoint on the topics discussed and then proclaiming to know all answers despite a serious lack of knowledge in the discussions. Troll? I'm beginning to think so.
Are we really certain he's not a troll? I mean, at least YECism is something we see here quite often despite its many errors and falsifications, but geocentrism?! I didn't think that people would be so willfully ignorant these days, but I guess I shouldn't be so surprised. Furthermore, this is a poster who makes effectively content-less posts on the science forum that have nothing to do with science and show clearly zero desire to actually discuss science except from a completely ignorant viewpoint on the topics discussed and then proclaiming to know all answers despite a serious lack of knowledge in the discussions. Troll? I'm beginning to think so.
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wblastyn
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You probably think that makes you a great Christian, believing "God's Word" over "man's science" and all, well sorry to tell you but it doesn't, it just makes you ignorant.Dayton said:
Do you think all those photos NASA have of the earth orbitting the sun are from Satan or something?
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