Gentiles? Not Anymore!

[HARK!]

Ephesians 2

11 Wherefore, remember that once you, the nations (Gentiles) in flesh - who are termed 'Uncircumcision' by those termed 'Circumcision,' in flesh, made by hands -"

Not anymore!

12 that you were, in that era, apart from Christ, being alienated from the citizenship of Israel, and guests of the promise covenants, having no expectation, and without God in the world."

Not anymore! Hmmm...covenants, plural.

13 Yet now, in Christ Jesus, you, who once are far off, are become near by the blood of Christ."

Citizens of Israel.


(CLV) Hb 8:10
"For this is the covenant which I shall be covenanting with the house of Israel after those days," the Lord is saying: "Imparting My laws to their comprehension, On their hearts, also, shall I be inscribing them, And I shall be to them for a God, And they shall be to Me for a people.


14 For He is our Peace, Who makes both one, and razes the central wall of the barrier"

No difference between those who were born into the false dogma of Judaism, and those who were born into the false teaching of Paganism. All of those in Yahshua are in the truth of YHWH's perfect Torah.

15 (the enmity in His flesh), nullifying the law of precepts in decrees, (dogma, Talmud) that He should be creating the two, in Himself, into one new humanity, making peace;"

Israel!

(CLV) Mt 15:24
Now He, answering, said, "I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."



16 and should be reconciling both in one body to God through the cross, killing the enmity in it."

(CLV) Num 15:15
As for the assembly, there shall be one statute for you and for the sojourner sojourning with you. It shall be an eonian (FOREVER) statute throughout your generations. Like you so shall the sojourner be before Yahweh.

17 And, coming, He brings the evangel of peace to you, those afar, and peace to those near, 18 for through Him we both have had access, in one spirit, to the Father." 19 Consequently, then, no longer are you guests and sojourners, but are fellow-citizens of the saints and belong to God's family,

(CLV) Num 15:16
One law and one custom, it shall come to be for you and for the sojourner sojourning with you.

(CLV) Ex 12:49
One law shall there be for both the native and for the sojourner sojourning in your midst.


(CLV) Lv 24:22
The same judgment shall you come to have; for the sojourner as well as the native shall it be: for I, Yahweh, am your Elohim.

(CLV) Num 15:29
For the native among the sons of Israel and for the sojourner sojourning in their midst, one law shall apply for you, to anyone doing it through inadvertence.

 

[expos4ever]

15 (the enmity in His flesh), nullifying the law of precepts in decrees, (dogma, Talmud) that He should be creating the two, in Himself, into one new humanity, making peace;"

Now Hark, you wouldn't be adding your own comments to scripture would you?

Does the original greek have either "Talmud" or "dogma"?

Methinks not.

You wouldn't be trying to deflect readers away from the obvious conclusion that it is, yes, the Law, that functions as a divider between Jew and Gentile?

 

[visionary]

Now Hark, you wouldn't be adding your own comments to scripture would you?

Does the original greek have either "Talmud" or "dogma"?

Methinks not.

You wouldn't be trying to deflect readers away from the obvious conclusion that it is, yes, the Law, that functions as a divider between Jew and Gentile?

Peter didn't think so, from the vision he came to understand the "fence" that separated Jew from Gentle wasn't God law, but the Jewish talmud.

 

[HARK!]

Does the original greek have either "Talmud" or "dogma"?

Methinks not.

Think again.

15 (the enmity in His flesh), nullifying the law of precepts in decrees,

δογμασιν
dogmasin
decrees
dogma
G1378

 

[Blade]

Peter didn't think so, from the vision he came to understand the "fence" that separated Jew from Gentle wasn't God law, but the Jewish talmud.

I can see part of what you said but.. where did you get "he camed to understand the fence that separated Jew from Gentle (ok) wasn't Gods law but the Jewish Talmud. How do we know this? That last part? Did I miss it in the word?

 

[HARK!]

You wouldn't be trying to deflect readers away from the obvious conclusion that it is, yes, the Law, that functions as a divider between Jew and Gentile?

(CLV) Ga 3:28
in Whom there is not Jew nor yet Greek, there is not slave nor yet free, there is not male and female, for you all are one in Christ Jesus.

 

[HARK!]

I can see part of what you said but.. where did you get "he camed to understand the fence that separated Jew from Gentle (ok) wasn't Gods law but the Jewish Talmud. How do we know this? That last part? Did I miss it in the word?

dogma
noun
dog·ma | \ ˈdȯg-mə , ˈdäg- \
plural dogmas also dogmata\ ˈdȯg-mə-tə , ˈdäg- \
Definition of dogma
1a : something held as an established opinion especially : a definite authoritative tenet
b : a code of such tenets pedagogical dogma
c : a point of view or tenet put forth as authoritative without adequate grounds
2 : a doctrine or body of doctrines concerning faith or morals formally stated and authoritatively proclaimed by a church

Definition of DOGMA

 

[ViaCrucis]

Peter didn't think so, from the vision he came to understand the "fence" that separated Jew from Gentle wasn't God law, but the Jewish talmud.

Oh, where does it say that?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

(CLV) Ga 3:28
in Whom there is not Jew nor yet Greek, there is not slave nor yet free, there is not male and female, for you all are one in Christ Jesus.

So do you maintain there are no Jews? It says "Neither Jew nor Gentile", not "No longer Gentiles, but Jews instead". Instead Jew and Gentile alike, by this NEW Covenant, through the Messiah who has ushered in the beginning of the new and messianic age, the Kingdom has come and all people, regardless of who they are, are called by the Gospel to come and be part of this new people. Having received our new identity in Jesus the Messiah.

That is why from two who were formerly divided, are now one. The fence of the Torah is no longer a dividing barrier between Jew and Gentile. The Messiah has come, the old order of things has passed, and in Him the new has come.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[visionary]

Oh, where does it say that?

-CryptoLutheran

God gives Peter a vision in Acts chapter 10. This vision would begin to break down the separation that existed between believing Jews and god-fearing Gentiles.

Ephesians 3:1-6
1 For this reason I, Paul, a prisoner for Christ Jesus on behalf of you Gentiles— 2 assuming that you have heard of the stewardship of God’s grace that was given to me for you, 3 how the mystery was made known to me by revelation, as I have written briefly. 4 When you read this, you can perceive my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to the sons of men in other generations as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit. 6 This mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel.

Acts 10:17-23
17 Now while Peter was inwardly perplexed as to what the vision that he had seen might mean, behold, the men who were sent by Cornelius, having made inquiry for Simon’s house, stood at the gate 18 and called out to ask whether Simon who was called Peter was lodging there. 19 And while Peter was pondering the vision, the Spirit said to him, “Behold, three men are looking for you. 20 Rise and go down and accompany them without hesitation, for I have sent them.” 21 And Peter went down to the men and said, “I am the one you are looking for. What is the reason for your coming?” 22 And they said, “Cornelius, a centurion, an upright and God-fearing man, who is well spoken of by the whole Jewish nation, was directed by a holy angel to send for you to come to his house and to hear what you have to say.” 23 So he invited them in to be his guests.
The next day he rose and went away with them, and some of the brothers from Joppa accompanied him. 24 And on the following day they entered Caesarea. Cornelius was expecting them and had called together his relatives and close friends. 25 When Peter entered, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and worshiped him. 26 But Peter lifted him up, saying, “Stand up; I too am a man.” 27 And as he talked with him, he went in and found many persons gathered. 28 And he said to them, “You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a Jew to associate with or to visit anyone of another nation, but God has shown me that I should not call any person common or unclean. 29 So when I was sent for, I came without objection. I ask then why you sent for me.”

 

[visionary]

I can see part of what you said but.. where did you get "he camed to understand the fence that separated Jew from Gentle (ok) wasn't Gods law but the Jewish Talmud. How do we know this? That last part? Did I miss it in the word?

See post #10

 

[visionary]

So do you maintain there are no Jews? It says "Neither Jew nor Gentile", not "No longer Gentiles, but Jews instead". Instead Jew and Gentile alike, by this NEW Covenant, through the Messiah who has ushered in the beginning of the new and messianic age, the Kingdom has come and all people, regardless of who they are, are called by the Gospel to come and be part of this new people. Having received our new identity in Jesus the Messiah.

That is why from two who were formerly divided, are now one. The fence of the Torah is no longer a dividing barrier between Jew and Gentile. The Messiah has come, the old order of things has passed, and in Him the new has come.

-CryptoLutheran

And thus Cornelius is welcomed as a member of the Jewish faith in Yeshua.

 

[ViaCrucis]

God gives Peter a vision in Acts chapter 10. This vision would begin to break down the separation that existed between believing Jews and god-fearing Gentiles.

Ephesians 3:1-6
1 For this reason I, Paul, a prisoner for Christ Jesus on behalf of you Gentiles— 2 assuming that you have heard of the stewardship of God’s grace that was given to me for you, 3 how the mystery was made known to me by revelation, as I have written briefly. 4 When you read this, you can perceive my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to the sons of men in other generations as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit. 6 This mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel.

Acts 10:17-23
17 Now while Peter was inwardly perplexed as to what the vision that he had seen might mean, behold, the men who were sent by Cornelius, having made inquiry for Simon’s house, stood at the gate 18 and called out to ask whether Simon who was called Peter was lodging there. 19 And while Peter was pondering the vision, the Spirit said to him, “Behold, three men are looking for you. 20 Rise and go down and accompany them without hesitation, for I have sent them.” 21 And Peter went down to the men and said, “I am the one you are looking for. What is the reason for your coming?” 22 And they said, “Cornelius, a centurion, an upright and God-fearing man, who is well spoken of by the whole Jewish nation, was directed by a holy angel to send for you to come to his house and to hear what you have to say.” 23 So he invited them in to be his guests.
The next day he rose and went away with them, and some of the brothers from Joppa accompanied him. 24 And on the following day they entered Caesarea. Cornelius was expecting them and had called together his relatives and close friends. 25 When Peter entered, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and worshiped him. 26 But Peter lifted him up, saying, “Stand up; I too am a man.” 27 And as he talked with him, he went in and found many persons gathered. 28 And he said to them, “You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a Jew to associate with or to visit anyone of another nation, but God has shown me that I should not call any person common or unclean. 29 So when I was sent for, I came without objection. I ask then why you sent for me.”

Oh, that I know.

It's your claim that Peter's vision has to do with the Talmud that is being called into question. Where is THAT in the text you quoted?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[HARK!]

So do you maintain there are no Jews?

Of course there are Jews. There are Pagans too.

It says "Neither Jew nor Gentile",

Paul said that here:

(CLV) Ga 3:28
in Whom there is not Jew nor yet Greek, there is not slave nor yet free, there is not male and female, for you all are one in Christ Jesus.

not "No longer Gentiles, but Jews instead"

No. Jews practice Pharisaic Judaism Yahshua rebuked this. Of what benefit is it for someone who is lost in one false doctrine, to be lost in another false doctrine?

Instead Jew and Gentile alike, by this NEW Covenant, through the Messiah

There are none practicing Judaism nor Paganism in Messiah. All are one, Israel, in Messiah. As the mixed multitude entered covenant with YHWH at Sinai all were one Israel in the same fashion. One Israel. One Elohim. One Torah.

 

[ViaCrucis]

And thus Cornelius is welcomed as a member of the Jewish faith in Yeshua.

Cornelius was welcomed as a member of the Christian faith in Jesus Christ.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

Of course there are Jews. There are Pagan too.



Paul said that here:

(CLV) Ga 3:28
in Whom there is not Jew nor yet Greek, there is not slave nor yet free, there is not male and female, for you all are one in Christ Jesus.



No Jews practice Pharisaic Judaism Yahshua rebuked this. Of what benefit is it for someone who is lost in one false doctrine, to be lost in another false doctrine?



There are none practicing Judaism nor Paganism in Messiah. All are one, Israel, in Messiah. As the mixed multitude entered covenant with YHWH at Sinai all were one Israel in the same fashion. One Israel. One Elohim. One Torah.

So out of curiosity, if I see an Amalekite, should I kill him? (Deuteronomy 25:19)

Or should I love him, and give him drink when he is thirty and food when he is hungry? (Matthew 5:44, Romans 12:20)

-CryptoLutheran

 

[HARK!]

The fence of the Torah is no longer a dividing barrier between Jew and Gentile.

The Torah was never a fence between bloodlines who entered covenant with YHWH. This was demonstrated at Sinai, with the mixed multitude.

The Torah is the glue that hold Israel together. When Israel rebels against the Torah, the curses come. Israel ends up in bondage and exile. Even within the culture, where there is no law; there is no justice. There is no peace.

YHWH's covenant is with Israel.

(CLV) Hb 8:10
"For this is the covenant which I shall be covenanting with the house of Israel after those days," the Lord is saying: "Imparting My laws to their comprehension, On their hearts, also, shall I be inscribing them, And I shall be to them for a God, And they shall be to Me for a people.

Yahshua was commissioned only for Israel.

(CLV) Mt 15:24
Now He, [Yahshua] answering, said, "I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

 

[ViaCrucis]

The Torah was never a fence between bloodlines who entered covenant with YHWH. This was demonstrated at Sinai, with the mixed multitude.

The Torah is the glue that hold Israel together. When Israel rebels against the Torah, the curses come. Israel ends up in bondage and exile. Even within the culture, where there is no law; there is no justice. There is no peace.

YHWH's covenant is with Israel.

(CLV) Hb 8:10
"For this is the covenant which I shall be covenanting with the house of Israel after those days," the Lord is saying: "Imparting My laws to their comprehension, On their hearts, also, shall I be inscribing them, And I shall be to them for a God, And they shall be to Me for a people.

Yahshua was commissioned only for Israel.

(CLV) Mt 15:24
Now He, [Yahshua] answering, said, "I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Is circumcision something, or is circumcision nothing?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[HARK!]

So out of curiosity, if I see an Amalekite, should I kill him? (Deuteronomy 25:19)

Are you an American? If so, if you are visiting (or in exile) a foreign land; should you enforce U.S. law on the foreigners?

 

[HARK!]

Is circumcision something, or is circumcision nothing?

(CLV) Ro 2:25
For circumcision, indeed, is benefiting if you should be putting law into practice, yet if you should be a transgressor of law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision.