Gentiles? Not Anymore!

[visionary]

Oh, that I know.

It's your claim that Peter's vision has to do with the Talmud that is being called into question. Where is THAT in the text you quoted?

-CryptoLutheran

This idea of Gentiles being unclean (unacceptable) was so ingrained in Jewish thought, that Judaism of the day deemed it to be ‘unlawful’ (though God hadn’t) for a Jew to associate with or enter the house of a Gentile. This is why when Peter enters the house of Cornelius he says: “You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a Jew to associate with or to visit anyone of another nation.” (Acts 10:28)

Acts 10:34-43
34 So Peter opened his mouth and said: “Truly I understand that God shows no partiality, 35 but in every nation anyone who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him. 36 As for the word that he sent to Israel, preaching good news of peace through Jesus Christ (he is Lord of all), 37 you yourselves know what happened throughout all Judea, beginning from Galilee after the baptism that John proclaimed: 38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power. He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him. 39 And we are witnesses of all that he did both in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They put him to death by hanging him on a tree, 40 but God raised him on the third day and made him to appear, 41 not to all the people but to us who had been chosen by God as witnesses, who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead. 42 And he commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one appointed by God to be judge of the living and the dead. 43 To him all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

Peter opens his mouth and speaks to the Gentile god-fearers who have gathered and says: “Truly I understand that God shows no partiality, but in every nation anyone who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him.” Peter then follows by giving them the good news message of salvation.

It has been taught: R. Ishmael says, 1 Israelites who reside outside Palestine serve idols though in pure innocence. If, for example, an idolater gives a banquet for his son and invites all the Jews in his town, then, even though they eat of their own and drink of their own and their own attendant waits on them, Scripture regards them as if they had eaten of the sacrifices to dead idols, as it is said, And he will call thee and thou wilt eat of his sacrifice. 2

1. Tosef. V and ARN XXVI have 'R. Simeon b. Eleazar'.
2. Ex. XXXIV, 15

Jewish law tries to separate Jews from gentiles, in order to prevent Jews from adopting idolatrous behaviors. Extensions of the dietary laws limited social interactions. Jews are not allowed to leave their wine with idolaters, lest it be used for idolatry (Shulhan Arukh Yoreh Deah 128:1), and food cooked by non-Jews is also prohibited (Yoreh Deah 113:1ff.). There are exceptions and loopholes, but the general force is to discourage interaction between Jews and non-Jews.
The Non-Jew in Jewish Law | My Jewish Learning

 

[visionary]

Cornelius was welcomed as a member of the Christian faith in Jesus Christ.

-CryptoLutheran

At the time of the disciples, the faith was of the Way. Yeshua's faith has always been Judaism, His brand of course, but faithful to it in word and deed, to the point of sinlessness. Yeshua expects His followers to be the same. The disciples were Jews, remained Jews, and spread the good news of the Messiah of the Jews had come. They never thought or taught outside of Judaism to all they taught. It was always a Jewish faith, enhanced by our Savior, crowned by His Holy Spirit, and blessed by God the Father of the Jewish faith.

 

[HARK!]

Cornelius was welcomed as a member of the Christian faith in Jesus Christ.

(CLV) Mt 15:24
Now He, [Yahshua] answering, said, "I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

This means that Cornelius was either in covenant, or preparing to enter covenant, as member of Israel, in Yahshua.

 

[ViaCrucis]

(CLV) Mt 15:24
Now He, [Yahshua] answering, said, "I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

This means that Cornelius was either in covenant, or preparing to enter covenant, as member of Israel, in Yahshua.

By which Jesus meant Jews. Jesus' earthly ministry was to His fellow Jews, and yet He did not discriminate, as demonstrated in the very passage you quote--as, yes, Jesus did heal the daughter of the Canaanite woman.

Full inclusion of the Gentiles was not fully grasped by the Apostles until Peter's vision and experience at Cornelius' house.

Jew and Gentile, called by the one and same Gospel, to be members of Christ's holy and catholic Church.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

At the time of the disciples, the faith was of the Way. Yeshua's faith has always been Judaism, His brand of course, but faithful to it in word and deed, to the point of sinlessness. Yeshua expects His followers to be the same. The disciples were Jews, remained Jews, and spread the good news of the Messiah of the Jews had come. They never thought or taught outside of Judaism to all they taught. It was always a Jewish faith, enhanced by our Savior, crowned by His Holy Spirit, and blessed by God the Father of the Jewish faith.

Did a Pagan Greek who converted to Christianity become a Jew?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Scott Husted]

Peter didn't think so, from the vision he came to understand the "fence" that separated Jew from Gentle wasn't God law, but the Jewish talmud.

Really what separated them for Peter was his own mind ... to him the gentiles were still unclean ...

 

[visionary]

Did a Pagan Greek who converted to Christianity become a Jew?

-CryptoLutheran

As Paul put it, part of the "commonwealth of Israel".

 

[visionary]

By which Jesus meant Jews. Jesus' earthly ministry was to His fellow Jews, and yet He did not discriminate, as demonstrated in the very passage you quote--as, yes, Jesus did heal the daughter of the Canaanite woman.

Full inclusion of the Gentiles was not fully grasped by the Apostles until Peter's vision and experience at Cornelius' house.

Jew and Gentile, called by the one and same Gospel, to be members of Christ's holy and catholic Church.

-CryptoLutheran

Now that is a leap ... you just jumped from Jewish faith to catholic faith without any truth.

 

[Allen of the Cross]

Now that is a leap ... you just jumped from Jewish faith to catholic faith without any truth.

Hello there. I don't mean to butt in, but I would like to point out, politely, that "catholic" with a lower case c usually means "broad," or in some cases, "united," not specifically the Catholic (upper case C) faith. God bless you

 

[Scott Husted]

There are none practicing Judaism nor Paganism in Messiah. All are one, Israel, in Messiah. As the mixed multitude entered covenant with YHWH at Sinai all were one Israel in the same fashion. One Israel. One Elohim. One Torah.

Paul said this covenant gendered to bondage ... why in your opinion do you think he would say something like that?

 

[visionary]

Hello there. I don't mean to butt in, but I would like to point out, politely, that "catholic" with a lower case c usually means "broad," or in some cases, "united," not specifically the Catholic (upper case C) faith. God bless you

Still not applicable. It is a minority, it is not universal or united or broad for that matter.

 

[solid_core]

Ephesians 2

11 Wherefore, remember that once you, the nations (Gentiles) in flesh - who are termed 'Uncircumcision' by those termed 'Circumcision,' in flesh, made by hands -"

Not anymore!

Here is the full sentence, without your sudden stopping it:

Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (which is done in the body by human hands)—remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world.

The verse does not say we are not Gentiles anymore, it says that we, who are Gentiles, are now citizens of Israel.

As you can be a Russian or Chinese by birth, but have American citizenship.

 

[visionary]

Here is the full sentence, without your sudden stopping it:

Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (which is done in the body by human hands)—remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world.

The verse does not say we are not Gentiles anymore, it says that we, who are Gentiles, are now citizens of Israel.

As you can be a Russian or Chinese by birth, but have American citizenship.

Yep, I am one of those gentles who have joined the commonwealth of Israel by faith in Yeshua, the Jewish Messiah.

 

[visionary]

Now Hark, you wouldn't be adding your own comments to scripture would you?

Does the original greek have either "Talmud" or "dogma"?

Methinks not.

You wouldn't be trying to deflect readers away from the obvious conclusion that it is, yes, the Law, that functions as a divider between Jew and Gentile?

What law of God are you pointing to that does that?

 

[Scott Husted]

At the time of the disciples, the faith was of the Way. Yeshua's faith has always been Judaism, His brand of course, but faithful to it in word and deed, to the point of sinlessness. Yeshua expects His followers to be the same. The disciples were Jews, remained Jews, and spread the good news of the Messiah of the Jews had come. They never thought or taught outside of Judaism to all they taught. It was always a Jewish faith, enhanced by our Savior, crowned by His Holy Spirit, and blessed by God the Father of the Jewish faith.

Jesus' faith was Judaism doesn't quite make sense when you look at scriptures as a whole narrative ... he definitely was born under this mentality that "In the beginning God" morphed into through the process of time ... which is the case with the word jew ... and of Abraham it is said he was a Hebrew which simply means (and which I'm sure you know) a descendant of Eber ... so at best he was an Ebernite ...

 

[Allen of the Cross]

Still not applicable. It is a minority, it is not universal or united or broad for that matter.

I think you misunderstand me, it is okay. This guy is not talking about the Catholic church, but rather, the entire, "united" church. He's just referring to the church in general, I believe, not necessarily the RCC.

 

[visionary]

I think you misunderstand me, it is okay. This guy is not talking about the Catholic church, but rather, the entire, "united" church. He's just referring to the church in general, I believe, not necessarily the RCC.

at the time frame of the apostles, it was not...

 

[visionary]

Jesus' faith was Judaism doesn't quite make sense when you look at scriptures as a whole narrative ... he definitely was born under this mentality that "In the beginning God" morphed into through the process of time ... which is the case with the word jew ... and of Abraham it is said he was a Hebrew which simply means (and which I'm sure you know) a descendant of Eber ... so at best he was an Ebernite ...

My view is Levite as Mary was cousin to Elizabeth wife of Zacarihas who was a levite priest. By law to be a priest in service to temple he had to be married to a Levite woman, therefore to be her cousin she was a Levite. That give Yeshua rights to be a priest, just like His cousin, John, the Baptist.

As to Yeshua's right to the throne, now that is another story. Prophecies about the Messiah in the Tanach (Old Testament) speak of Him coming from the lineage of King David (Jer. 23:5; Ezk. 34:23, etc.) and a number of New Testament Scriptures reflect that, saying that Yeshua is from the Seed of David (as well as Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Judah). Now that is a study that deserves its own thread. I will not go further as it would cause a rabbit trail away from this thread's purpose.

 

[HARK!]

By which Jesus meant Jews. Jesus' earthly ministry was to His fellow Jews, and yet He did not discriminate, as demonstrated in the very passage you quote--as, yes, Jesus did heal the daughter of the Canaanite woman.

Why would you assume that Jews placing Talmud over Torah wouldn't qualify as the lost sheep of Israel?

 

[HARK!]

Jew and Gentile, called by the one and same Gospel, to be members of Christ's holy and catholic Church.

I don't recall seeing Christ's holy and catholic Church, anywhere in the OP; nor anywhere in the Bible for that matter.