Genocide

[talitha]

I believe there is another reason. Apart from them living on the land that Israel was entitled to, God doesn't want the Israelites stained by their practices. Deuteronomy 20:17-18:

17You shall annihilate them—the Hittites and the Amorites, the Canaanites and the Perizzites, the Hivites and the Jebusites—just as the Lord your God has commanded, 18so that they may not teach you to do all the abhorrent things that they do for their gods, and you thus sin against the Lord your God.
​

I'm quite confident that the Israelites wouldn't have cared if the Canaanites hung around, as long as the Canaanite culture didn't rub off on them. This purity-first obsession doesn't seem likely to have been the primary reason for the genocide, because God (almost) never tells the Israelites to put the ban on pagan cities again. If it was purity they were worried about, they could have gone on wiping out peoples for a long time yet.

But it does fits quite well into the 'I am holy, you are supposed to be holy, separate yourself from them' theme that runs through the commandments.

I think he's got it!

 

[AV1611VET]

[delete]

 

[Nooj]

I think he's got it!

So the Israelites were motivated to wipe out the Canaanites because they wanted the land and because of xenophobic religious fervour.

That still doesn't make the genocide any better.

 

[talitha]

no, not because they wanted the land. If you read the account - they said many times in the desert that they wished Moses hadn't ever led them out of Egypt. A whole generation had to pass away in the desert because the first one was too scared to go in. Not because they wanted the land - but because GOD wanted them to have it. It was GOD's idea, not the Israelites' idea.

As a human being I have no right to question God.

You don't have to like these answers - and as a nonbeliever you don't have to agree with them, of course, or even think they make sense. This is simply theJudeo-Christian belief; God is right and I am wrong, any time I disagree with Him.

blessings in the name of Jesus
tal

 

[Nooj]

no, not because they wanted the land. If you read the account - they said many times in the desert that they wished Moses hadn't ever led them out of Egypt. A whole generation had to pass away in the desert because the first one was too scared to go in. Not because they wanted the land - but because GOD wanted them to have it. It was GOD's idea, not the Israelites' idea.

That actually makes it worse. If the Israelites had done it on their own, we could say that it was because they were a bunch of sinners doing sinful actions. But since the Bible states that God ordered the genocide, the guilt lies on God. We have no choice but to blame God for killing children and the elderly and the women.

As a human being I have no right to question God.

You don't have to like these answers - and as a nonbeliever you don't have to agree with them, of course, or even think they make sense. This is simply theJudeo-Christian belief; God is right and I am wrong, any time I disagree with Him.

blessings in the name of Jesus
tal

A frank and honest answer, thank you.

 

[Bible2]

Nooj posted in message #1 of this thread:

As Christians, what are your thoughts on the genocide of the
Canaanites? Why do you think God ordered them to do this?

Greetings.

God had the Israelites kill the Canaanites as part of his righteous
judgment against the Canaanites' sinfulness (Deuteronomy 9:4).

Nooj posted in message #1 of this thread:

Do you think it was a moral act?

Every act of God is a moral act (Deuteronomy 32:4).

Nooj posted in message #1 of this thread:

Is it consistent with the loving nature of God in Christianity?

Yes. The loving nature of God in the Bible (John 3:16) co-exists with
his wrath against unrepentant sinfulness (John 3:18-20,36).

Nooj posted (in the signature) of message #1 of this thread:

As flies to wanton boys are we to the gods - they kill us for their
sport. - Shakespeare King Lear, IV, i, 36

Note that God takes no pleasure in the death of unrepentant sinners
(Ezekiel 18:23).

 

[Bible2]

Nooj posted in message #6 of this thread:

Do you think Jesus would have killed women and children?

Jesus has killed women and children as judgment for unrepentant sin
(Revelation 2:21-23). And he will kill many unrepentant people at his
second coming (Revelation 19:11-21).

 

[Bible2]

Nooj posted in message #10 of this thread:

What did the Canaanite children do wrong to deserve such a fate?
They just had the misfortune to be born to the wrong families.

Actually, all children have had the misfortune to be born in
the wrong family, as in the family of mankind descended from
sinful Adam, from whom all people have inherited a sin nature
(Romans 5:12). This is imparted to all people even at the moment
of their conception (Psalms 51:5, 58:3). One way this could work is
that when Adam fell into sin, his whole body fell into a state of
sinfulness and mortality, so that even his seed (his sperm) became
tainted. When he passed on his seed to create the next generation
of humans, that generation grew from the tainted seed, and so was
in a sinful and mortal state from its very inception. In this way, the
taint of sinfulness and mortality has been passed down through the
generations. But when Jesus became a man to be a sacrifice for our
sins (Matthew 26:28), he had to be without sin himself, and so he
could not be conceived from any sin-tainted seed. So Jesus had no
human father, but is the Son of God (Luke 1:35).

 

[Bible2]

Nooj posted in message #16 of this thread:

They were not given the chance to repent. The Bible does not allow
surrender or mercy for the Caananites. God orders the Israelites to
destroy them utterly.

It seems to me that the Canaanites had no warning. There are no
indications in the Bible that they recieved prophets to teach them
about the proper way to behave.

This gets us into predestination/election: God doesn't choose to
save everyone, but only the elect, who are the vessels of his mercy,
while the non-elect are the vessels of his wrath (Romans 9:21-24).
Not even all those who are descendants of Israel are necessarily
elect (Romans 9:6-20), just as Rahab (Hebrews 11:31, James 2:25)
showed that not all of the Canaanites were necessarily non-elect.
God elects or doesn't elect individuals, although he can elect or not
elect most of the individuals within any one nation.

 

[Bible2]

Nooj posted in message #27 of this thread:

What, were the Canaanites *more* evil than the Egyptians and so
one deserved genocide and the other didn't?

It's not necessarily the case that the Canaanites were more evil
than the Egyptians, but, as a general rule (allowing for individual
exceptions), the Canaanites were not an elect nation, whereas
Egypt is an elect nation, insofar as Egypt will eventually be
reconciled to God and blessed by him during the millennium (Isaiah
19:25).

 

[Sketcher]

The Canaanites were a brutal people who had it coming. Among other things, they sacrificed their children alive to their gods.

 

[Nooj]

The Canaanites were a brutal people who had it coming. Among other things, they sacrificed their children alive to their gods.

Joshua: "Those Canaanites are barbaric and brutal people, they even kill their own children!"
Israelites: "My God, they're evil! What ever shall we do?"
Joshua: "Kill their children!"
Israelites: "Yay!"

Hm...yeah. I don't...uh, I don't quite see the logic in that. Do you?

 

[AV1611VET]

Hm...yeah. I don't...uh, I don't quite see the logic in that. Do you?

Oh, of course not.

Your way would be for them to wander around aimlessly --- no father, no mother, no one at all except "the enemy"?

 

[Nooj]

This gets us into predestination/election: God doesn't choose to
save everyone, but only the elect, who are the vessels of his mercy,
while the non-elect are the vessels of his wrath (Romans 9:21-24).
Not even all those who are descendants of Israel are necessarily
elect (Romans 9:6-20), just as Rahab (Hebrews 11:31, James 2:25)
showed that not all of the Canaanites were necessarily non-elect.
God elects or doesn't elect individuals, although he can elect or not
elect most of the individuals within any one nation.

By what criteria does God choose the elect?

Oh, of course not.

Your way would be for them to wander around aimlessly --- no father, no mother, no one at all except "the enemy"?

Oh I see. Killing the infants and the babies was a humanitarian act! Gosh, I guess we should be thanking God and the Israelites for being so generous in killing them along with their families.

How about adopting them?

 

[AV1611VET]

How about adopting them?

What did I just say?

... no one at all except "the enemy"?

Let's just all go kill little Johnny's family, then adopt little Johnny and hope he doesn't harbor ill feelings when he's older and cut our throats.

 

[Nooj]

What did I just say?Let's just all go kill little Johnny's family, then adopt little Johnny and hope he doesn't harbor ill feelings when he's older and cut our throats.

Ideally, you should reap what you sow...

The Israelites are commanded to kill the males but preserve the women and children of distant nations (not Canaanites) for forced labour in Deuteronomy 20:10-18. Shouldn't the Israelites fear that the descendants of these slaves will rise up and kill them? According to you, yes...but God wouldn't have made such a commandment to spare the women and children if that was the case. That brings me to something else actually. Why couldn't the Israelites simply enslave the Canaanites?

Rahab and her family are saved. Are we to assume that they will turn against the Israelites? The Canaanite infants will probably be even less dangerous, since they'll be converted into Israelite religion and grow up as an Israelite. Many would identify foremost with their current family. Especially if you hush up about their origin. And if you reply that God Himself demanded the slaughter of their family, what can they complain about?

 

[Sketcher]

Joshua: "Those Canaanites are barbaric and brutal people, they even kill their own children!"
Israelites: "My God, they're evil! What ever shall we do?"
Joshua: "Kill their children!"
Israelites: "Yay!"

Hm...yeah. I don't...uh, I don't quite see the logic in that. Do you?

Nice strawman.

Israel's mission was to eradicate that culture of brutality from the region. Had they not stopped short by sparing entire tribes, they would have done that.

 

[Nooj]

Nice strawman.

Israel's mission was to eradicate that culture of brutality from the region. Had they not stopped short by sparing entire tribes, they would have done that.

And culture somehow runs genetically? You have to kill babies to do it?

 

[[serious]]

What did I just say?Let's just all go kill little Johnny's family, then adopt little Johnny and hope he doesn't harbor ill feelings when he's older and cut our throats.

and if little johnny is an infant he will harbor ill will for a family he never knew because...

 

[Sketcher]

And culture somehow runs genetically? You have to kill babies to do it?

When God said "wipe out," he meant "wipe out." They were even supposed to kill the cattle, and all other signs of wealth, lest Israel covet what these people had and turn to wickedness. You can't let any human being live if you're going to do that. Besides, God (and God alone) has the authority to reclaim the lives of those pagan children and everyone else. I know a lot of secularists have a problem with that, but many of the things which are immoral are immoral to us because it is not our place to do them - it is God's. And God drafted his chosen people to be the instrument of this in a few select circumstances, which God laid out. No mere man can rightfully do that.