Genetic engineering

[pureone]

I have been doing some research on GMOs (genetically modified organisms). I realize that some uses are good (inserting genes into bacterial to produce human products needed for diseases, i.e. insulin, rHGH), some bad (which I can't come up with besides BT corn, but since BT is used as a pesticide outside of corn I am unwilling to call that a bad genetic modification), and some as of yet are unknown of the consequences (Califlower mosaic virus).

I have been reviewingthe UK\EU platform and the current regulations 1829\2003 and 1830\2003. I have noticed that laws everywhere else besides the U.S. are very stringent and this is becoming\ is a hot topic.

I wonder how the people in the forums feel about the possible impact of genetic modification on micro/macro evolution.

Are we going to see some transspecies jumping(which I doubt) of genes?

Are we going to create some monsterplants or beasty beasts?

Do you think that this is the fodder for the claim that "scientists are trying to be better than God" (inspired by an earlier post).

Any input is welcome .

 

[the_malevolent_milk_man]

Monster plants and bands of mutants roaming the wastelands is just science fiction.

At worst a disease might jump species so that's probabbly the only worry. However that could happen anywhere species intermingle so it's not specific to this situation.

As for "trying to be better than god"... as an atheist I laugh. If I put my christian hat on... I laugh a little harder. Would god really be offended that we used our knowledge to help people? It's like saying "god is offended everytime you take medicine."

 

[lucaspa]

The effect on evolution would come by changing the environment for other organisms. Remember, the environment is everything and every organism that affects the life of the organism being studied. For instance, a mosquito that is immune to malaria has been introduced in order to combat malaria. This is intended to wipe out malaria, but that in turn will have effects on other organisms and their evolution.

What we seem to be facing is a lot of hysteria based on poor understanding. There is cause for concern and monitoring but not the mass reaction that is being seen. In Europe, particularly.

Yes, the technology could be misused but, guess what?, that has been true of every technology since humans first learned to make tools. Nice pointed stick to kill small animals will also put nasty holes in your neighbor.

I can definitely say that scientists are NOT trying to be "better than God". It's a technology that can be exploited for human benefit.

 

[The Archangel Aethariel]

Monster plants and bands of mutants roaming the wastelands is just science fiction.

Personally, I'm far more worried about scientists fiddling with nanotech invoking some sort of Grey Goo scenario. Pretty much any monster animal, regardless of size/strength/toughness, could be put down with heavy firearms or explosives. However, if you accidentally introduce unchecked nanoreplicators into the environment, you could irrevocably doom the entire planet to be being devoured. Just a thought on the side, regarding nasty scientific implications

~AA

 

[Citizen of Earth]

It's like saying "god is offended everytime you take medicine."

Sadly, lots of Christian Scientists think this very thing.

 

[David Gould]

Personally, I'm far more worried about scientists fiddling with nanotech invoking some sort of Grey Goo scenario. Pretty much any monster animal, regardless of size/strength/toughness, could be put down with heavy firearms or explosives. However, if you accidentally introduce unchecked nanoreplicators into the environment, you could irrevocably doom the entire planet to be being devoured. Just a thought on the side, regarding nasty scientific implications

~AA

If you know the code the nanobots are running and/or their physical structure you can disable them. It is unlikely that robots that small would have any EMP protection, for example - in which case, an EMP burst would destroy all of them, or at least scramble them to the extent that they would no longer carry out their function.

 

[Jet Black]

Monster plants and bands of mutants roaming the wastelands is just science fiction.

what a shame.


anyway my opinion: I think there is a concern, that something that was intended to be beneficial might end up not being beneficial, and a scenario could come about where some organism gets some kind of unparalleled advantage over the rest of the environment and swamps the environment. This sort of thing has already been seen where a foreign organism has been introduced into an environment where it has no predator. While cries of "Oh no, we're all gonna die" are vastly out of the picture I still think that severe damage to the present environment could be done. This is particularly in the case of messing with immune systems and resistance to certain things. The environment of course will come up with a cunning way to combat it, and like all human things, the status quo will have to be maintained.

 

[Jet Black]

Personally, I'm far more worried about scientists fiddling with nanotech invoking some sort of Grey Goo scenario.

I think grey goo scenarios should be left to science fiction books. While nanotech is cool, I don't think it will turn into a case where it can endlessly replicate and destroy us all. again, it's media overexcitement.

 

[David Gould]

I think grey goo scenarios should be left to science fiction books. While nanotech is cool, I don't think it will turn into a case where it can endlessly replicate and destroy us all. again, it's media overexcitement.

The chances are that there would be significant errors within just a few generations, either in the passing on of the code or in the physical structure even if you could design such a nanobot. And the nanobots would prey on each other, especially as many of them would very quickly be surrounded by other nanobots and have no other resources on which to draw.

Then there are energy and time limitations in terms of travel to new resource centres. If there is iron needed and there is insufficient iron nearby, for example, then the process slows or stalls.

 

[fungle]

Trials of the plant canola were undertaken where I lived.This was discontinued because the best profits were organically grown produce.The problem is that the canola growth is out of control, growing beside the road or any where else it could. The canola was of course genetically engineered

 

[pureone]

Trials of the plant canola were undertaken where I lived.This was discontinued because the best profits were organically grown produce.The problem is that the canola growth is out of control, growing beside the road or any where else it could. The canola was of course genetically engineered

Good stuff. I think I saw the nanobot anime the other day .
Fungle, were there the protesters pulling out plants (are you one ?)

I did't think there was much of a problem, nor would there be, and in fact the only scientists to the contrary were biologists on anti-sites. I could not find one publication on pubmed or entrez citing anything caused by mutant bacteria.

 

[lucaspa]

Personally, I'm far more worried about scientists fiddling with nanotech

I'll worry about this if and when someone is actually able to make a nanotech device. So far I've seen a lot of hot air but no working device of any type.

Yet a lot of people talk like nanotech is a reality.

Ah, the power of propaganda!

 

[lucaspa]

Trials of the plant canola were undertaken where I lived.This was discontinued because the best profits were organically grown produce.The problem is that the canola growth is out of control, growing beside the road or any where else it could. The canola was of course genetically engineered

Was non-genetically engineered canola grown in your area?

Usually organically grown produce can't compete because of the higher costs due to lower yield.

All in all, I'd like to see some documentation.

 

[fungle]

The documentation is tied up with an unpopular labor government in tasmania where the people are get fed up with an elite group destroying our heritage. We don't want GM and earn more money with organically grown crops and tourism .See tasmania foresty. Thats why the modified crop of canola gone wild stopped the GM crops in tas. WE were given promises by the companies the proved wrong. Trucks delivering produce spread the canola along the highways. If you agree with the idea clean up the mess or else grow them in your own backyard.

 

[lucaspa]

The documentation is tied up with an unpopular labor government in tasmania where the people are get fed up with an elite group destroying our heritage. We don't want GM and earn more money with organically grown crops and tourism .See tasmania foresty. Thats why the modified crop of canola gone wild stopped the GM crops in tas. WE were given promises by the companies the proved wrong. Trucks delivering produce spread the canola along the highways. If you agree with the idea clean up the mess or else grow them in your own backyard.

You didn't answer my questions:

1. Aren't there news reports at least about this? Don't you have a link to "tasmania forestry"?
2. Was canola a native plant? Did you grow canola before the GM canola arrived?
3. Where are the figures about money. Saying you got more money with organically grown crops and tourism doesn't help. First, it's changing the claim. Second, growing crops organically is irrelevant to GM crops. They can be grown organically or not. Third, how has the wild canola hurt the tourist industry?

 

[fungle]

Sorry it was a scamlbed reply. No canola was grown before the the two big companies decided to approach the government which agreed that gm crops could be grown and unfortunately the seeds began growing unimpeded in areas where there was no planting. Tasmania is one of the top growers of opium poppies which are strictly controlled. You may say how organic is that in terms of growing, but a little island state exports many speciality products to asia and europe which is developing because of our GE free enviroment

 

[fungle]

Lucaspa I have personally seen the effect of GE out of control.Okay tassie is a small island, I recommend that you visit, but the australian govern ment has had a shake up about what happened in our environment. Still I appreciate that GM wheat will feed more

 

[pureone]

They are adding terminator genes now to many to ensure that the seeds from the grown plants are not viable. The problem lies not with the GM plant, but instead with the corresponding pesti/insecti/fungi-cide.
Even "natural" pesticides like Rotenone have been shown to have harmful efffects on humans esp parkinsonisms (I can get a whole page of science links if ya'll want them)

I'll look it up fungle. Did the Gov't do tests to see if the plants were GM or not?

 

[fungle]

Yes they were and that , once the people knew, was the end of that experiment.

 

[FordPrefect]

One of the most compelling arguments I see against GMO is not related to health, or environmental concerns, although those should not be ignored. Rather the issue is over the practice of patenting GMOs. The reason this is dangerous, is manyfold, but the most obvious is the potential for cross-pollenization with a neighboring field whose owner/farmer did not pay for the rights to grow a particular organism and can be sued for property theft. There is a case like this happening in Canada right now. His claim is cross-pollenization, but he may have stole the seed, I don't really know, but the danger is still real.

Patents can also have adverse effects in poorer countries since farmers are not allowed to keep GMO seed for the following year's crop from their harvest. This increases their dependence on the seed manufacturer and reduces their profit margins substantially, plus increasing their vulnerability to the whims of the seed manufacturer. One need only look at the chicken farming situation in the southern states to see farmers at the mercy of large corporations. (This is in a wealthy country too.)

Given some of the behaviour exhibited by large seed companies against countries like India, I cannot believe for one second that their goal is "to help humanity."