• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Genesis

True science is in the present, not the past. Who can say what really happend thousands, and especially millions of years ago? I tell ya, science is always changing, something new is always being discovered, old theories are being thrown out the window. If you don't have all of the evidence, you can't make a 100% conclusion, especially when it comes to science of the past. Really, if you don't know everything there is to know, then you cannot conclude anything.... who knows what effect an element millions of light years away has on reality (just to boggel your mind, are you really real?? matrix kinda stuff).

What I believe however, is that God knows all things, and thus I can rely on Him, He has all the answers that I don't understand. And I believe this through faith and personal experience. :bow:

There is much strong evidence both for and against evolution. I personally believe in creation in 6 days, as it makes the most sense to me, fits in perfectly with God's promises and leaves me standing strong in the faith, no questioning the truth of God's Word, but believing every promise and praising His name in awe of Him! My personal opinion is that evolution is the biggest, fattest lie ever to filtrate darkened minds (put that in just to stir up the hornest nest!). :mad:

Genesis is an amazing book and is the foundation for the entire bible and God's revelation to man. Understanding our origin in Genesis gives us a complete picture of God's salvation story. I spent a long time reading through Henry Morris' book, The Genesis Record (over 650 pages verse by verse commentary), soaking up every page of this marvelous book. I highly recommend it for every Christian who desires to understand Genesis in a scientific and logical way - it really makes sense and answers so many questions! I cherish Genesis now and my eyes have been opened to wonderful truths that make me stand in awe of our God.

To say Genesis is mythological or allegorical is to undermine the entire bible. No other book in the Bible is quoted and referred to as frequently as Genesis is in other books of the Bible: Adam is mentioned by name in the books of Deuteronomy, Job, and 1 Chronicles; Noah is mentioned in 1 Chronicles, Isaiah and Ezekiel. Abraham is mentioned by name in fifteen books in the old testament and 11 in the new testament. The new testament is more dependent on Genesis than the Old - at least 165 passages are either directly quoted or clearly refererred to. Many are alluded to more than once, so there are at least 200 quotations or allusions. There exists over 100 quotations or direct references to Genesis 1-11(the creation) in the new testament. at least in 6 occasions, Jesus Himself referred to something or someone in one of these chapters (1-11). The writers in the New Testament and Jesus Christ Himself, not once even hinted that the events of Genesis as mere myths or allegories, they accepted Genesis as literal history.

If the first Adam was only an allegory, then by all logic, so was the second Adam. If man did not fall into sin from his state of created innocency, there is no reason for him to need a saviour. If all things can be accounted for by natural processes of evolution, there is no reason to look forward to a future supernatureal consummation of all things.

If Genesis is not true, then neither are the testimonies of those prophets and apostles who believed it was true. Jesus Christ Himself becomes a false witness.

The gap theory doesn't make sense - "God created the heavens and the earth and they evolved through many countless ages. Then satan sinned and God judged by bringing a cataclysm that left the earth dark and covered in water...then God said let there be light..." and the story continues. To believe that evolution occured before the sin of satan and man is to say that suffering, disease and often violent and widespread death (fossils) existed before sin entered the world... and that God Himself was responsible for this choas. The theory is a false sense of security, allowing one to accept both creation and evolution.

And the day-age theory? Again, the above applies, "day" interpretted as ages of evolution = death & suffering. Other arguments: 1. The order of creative events narrated in Genesis 1 is very different from the accepted order of fossils in the rocks representing geological ages. 2. If the days equal ages, surely it could have been written much more clearly "and the evening and the morning were the first day"...um, no mention of ages there, any dimwit reading it would conclude it was an actual day. The writer not only defined the term "day," but emphasized that it was terminated by a literal evening and morning and that it was like every other day in the normal sequence of days. Would you write it like that if you wanted to portray long ages? All logic says the writer want you to make no mistake - they were acutal days! 3. The hebrew term "yom" for day has never meant "period". It normally means either a day (24hrs) or the day-light hours. It may occasionally be used as a definite period without beginning or ending, but only when the context clearly indicates that the literal meaning is not intended. 4. Each "day" had boundaries, a set formula, always written as "And the evening and the morning were the second day" - whenever written like this in the Old Testament, literal days are always intended.

Anyhow, there are many more strong arguments such as the above that defend the Genesis as a historical book that actually happened. As you can see, it's my passion, because the book of Genesis has taught me a great deal and has strengthened my faith in many ways. My faith will not be shaken!!

And just a quicker prompter for deep thinking by those who are searching: :scratch:

Question what lies beyond the edge of the universe.
Can it end, and there be nothing, just nothing stretching forever? Is nothing still something eg. air, darkness, gas? Does that infact make it something and thus nothing is impossible? Is matter eternal, do the galaxies just keep going on and on, or maybe in a big infinite circle, around and around...but what's outside the circle? Is there an intellegent being that outside of the universe stretches on forever and has ultimate control over all things, a mystery in itself? Is it a multi-faceted universe, like a diamond, with many answers, beyond human understanding? Is it a question that you choose to ignore so you can live your life without having to depress yourself with thoughts like "why am I doing this, what purpose does it have in the universe, when I'm dead will anyone remember me in the centuries to come?" Cross that bridge when you get to it....or attempt to find out while you're alive?

Comes down to 4 answers:
1. Eternal nothingness
2. Eternal matter
3. Eternal Intelligent being
4. Something else that we cannot comprehend

Had enough of me?? Now I will get down offamy soap box! :wave:
*pop*
 
Upvote 0

Sinai

Well-Known Member
Apr 2, 2002
1,127
19
Visit site
✟1,762.00
Faith
Protestant
Originally posted by Chris H:
How do we as Christians who believe in an old earth understand Genesis? Recorded history goes back further than Adam. I'd like to hear how everyone here who is a Christian and also old earth understands things.

Sarcastic remarks by athiests will not be appreciated here.

Also, I ask no Hovindesque yec arguements.

So, Ladies and gentlemen of the progressive creation group here...

How do you then understand Genesis?

Personally, I think Genesis--and the rest of the Bible--is the true inspired word of God revealed to its human writers. I have no problem with accepting the Bible's creation account--nor do I disbelieve the evidence and discoveries of mainstream science.

I suggest that if you think that scripture and science seem to be contradicting each other, it is very likely that you either do not understand what science is actually presenting or that you do not fully understand what the Bible may be saying--or both. In other words, it may be time to check both the most credible scientific sources available, and to check what the actual Hebrew or Greek scriptures say--and what the range of meanings is for the words and phrases in question.
 
Upvote 0

LightBearer

Veteran
Aug 9, 2002
1,916
48
Visit site
✟19,072.00
Faith
Jehovahs Witness
Originally posted by doone128
That same day they started to die.
Gen2:[17] But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Isn't this similar to the use 'In my fathers day, things were different.....' ??

But the original creation days were specifc:
Gen1:[5] And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Note, the use of 'evening and morning were the first day'. This is quite clearly one literal day.


Genesis chapter 1 does use the expressions "evening" and "morning" relative to the creative periods or Days. But does indicate that they were 24 hours long? Not necessarily. In some places people often refer to a man's lifetime as his "day." They speak of "my father's day" or "in Shakespeare's day." They may divide up that lifetime "day," saying "in the morning [or dawn] of his life" or "in the evening [or twilight] of his life." So 'evening and morning' in Genesis chapter 1 does not limit the meaning to a literal 24 hours.

Consider for example.  Why Evening before the Morning.  During the evening period things would be indistinct; but in the morning they would become clearly discernible. During the "evening," or beginning, of each creative period, or "day," God's purpose for that day, though fully known to him, would be indistinct to any angelic observers. However, when the "morning" arrived there would be full light as to what God had purposed for that day, it having been accomplished by that time. Compare Pr 4:18.
 
Upvote 0

Jutsuka

<div style="width:100%; filter:glow(color=royalblu
Dec 7, 2002
235
1
46
Sundsvall
Visit site
✟30,365.00
Why does everyone seem to take everything in the bible literally? It was written by humans, humans are according to christian belief imperfect. That means that the bible is also imperfect since it is a human translation of the word of god. Genesis is a metaphor and so is a lot of other things in the bible.
 
Upvote 0

JohnR7

Well-Known Member
Feb 9, 2002
25,258
209
Ohio
✟29,532.00
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Originally posted by scanary
If you don't have all of the evidence, you can't make a 100% conclusion, especially when it comes to science of the past. Really, if you don't know everything there is to know, then you cannot conclude anything.... who knows what effect an element millions of light years away has on reality (just to boggel your mind, are you really real?? matrix kinda stuff).&nbsp;

&nbsp;I personally believe in creation in 6 days, as it makes the most sense to me,&nbsp;

Yeah, the Bible says "day" but what does it mean by a day.

What about the Pendulum theory. The cord from the fixed point has to be exactly 39 inches, to measure time as we know time. If it is shorter then 39 inches, you would end up with less than 60 seconds per min. If it is longer than 39 inches, your going to end up with more than 60 seconds per min.

As Einstein said, time is relative. It all depends on where you measure it from. The closer you got to the point the pendulum swings from the less time it takes for the pendulum to swing. The further way you get, the longer it takes for it to swing. Because it has a longer distance to go.

So they say, if you measure day one at the time it was one day long. But if you measure it from where we are at in time right now, I could&nbsp;measure million or even billions of years in length.

&nbsp;
 
Upvote 0

EPHRIAM777

A REAL NICE GUY..!
Dec 6, 2002
448
2
PHILLY
✟620.00
Originally posted by Chris H [/i]
How do we as Christians who believe in an old earth understand Genesis? Recorded history goes back further than Adam. I'd like to hear how everyone here who is a Christian and also old earth understands things.

Eph replies...

Well God made the earth..that is clear...He made Eden also...He placed "the Adam" as it reads in the Hebrew in the garden of Eden to take care of the garden...

....We don't know how long Adam was in the garden before God made Eve...and we don't know how long Adam and Eve lived in the garden prior to their "fall"....

So from that standpoint the earth can be very old...! How long did they live IN the garden..? 1 million yrs..? 100 Billion yrs..? Who knows..?

What we do know is prior to the "fall" they didn't age ( as far as we can tell )..or die...Once the fall happened.... the clock started ticking..and they did begin to age and they did die..!


Or you could turn to JER 4:23:28...

Here we find Jeremiah "beholding" ( looking at the earth literally )... before there was any LIGHT...That's means it's prior to GEN 1:3 when he sees all this....Jerry then says.. in verse 25 that there were NO "Adams" ( KJV says "no man" but the Hebrew is "no Adam in the sence of no Adam or descendants of Adam )...on the earth...So there is no Adam on the earth while Jerry is describing all this..!

Yet in verse 26 it reads "all the cities" were broken down..."all the cities"... is the English translation of that verse..what it said in the Hebrew is "meeting places of inteligent beings"...That doesn't mean it has to be Humans..It could have been "angels"...or cherubims...and as the text shows.."all the birds"...mentioned in verse 25..aren't speaking of "birds" as we know them...!

In the Hebrew it's " things covered with feathers waving to and fro in the air" were fled....Now...IF you were the English translator what would you put for "things covered with feathers waving or flapping to and fro in the air"..??....

You'd put "birds" and so would I...BUT it doesn't have to be birds....because the Bible says that Cherubims have wings..SEE EX 25:20...EX 37:9...AND we know from EZK 28:16...that Satan is a Cherubim...So it could have been him..and his buddies that "fell" with him..who were being described here..!

I believe the weight of scripture comes down on it being Satan and his fallen Angels that are being spoken of...!

Why..?

Because at one time Satan was on Earth...IN Eden as a Good Angel..SEE EZK 28:13:19....He was the crowning Cherubim...till he fell...!

How long was Lucifer in Eden before he fell..?? 10 yrs..? 1 Billion yrs..100 Billion yrs..? Scripture doesn't say...!

Thats why the earth can BE very old...!

It was a Mid Evil Monk..that decided to add up the geneologies in the Bible... to arrive at the earth being only 6000 odd yrs old...But he also thought the world was flat too...! That system he used of counting was in error because the Bible doesn't list geneologies always in a straight line "father son father son"...It jumps somtimes from Grandfather to Grandson..ect ect !

...Anyhow....WE meet Satan ( his name after he fell )..in the Genesis account with Adam and Eve...but thats already wayyy down the road in time...after he fell...! So how much time between the time Lucifer was good in Eden.. till he fell in Eden...and till he decieved Eve..? Could be a 100 Billion yrs between each... for all we know..!

SO back to Jerimiah now..

....Jerry sees the Earth prior to Adam being on it..and when there was no LIGHT..That MUST be prior to Gen 1:3...because in NO way can it be after the flood of Noah..!

Why..?

....because of the promise GOD made to Noah in GEN 8:22...day and night shall not cease...That means there has to be light to have day and night....and since Jeremiah sees the earth with NO light..We're seeing the earth prior to Gen 1:3...Because prior to the flood there WERE descendants of Adam..and there WAS light...So it's got to be Wayyy back there before the flood...and before any "Adam's"..are on the earth.....! ""Probably""" during Lucifer's fall...! ( my best guess )

Notice God shut out the "lights" in JER 4:28...and then turned em back on in GEN 1:3...!

Plus.. GEN 1:2...and JER 4:23...say the same thing..!

""without form and void""...could just as correctly be translated from the Hebrew as.."" became a waste and desolation""...!

Hope that helps you on that subject....! :)

Chris asks...

Also, Where do I go on Christianforums to get spiritual help?

Eph says...

I'd be careful not to go to anyone but your Pastor for that...UNLESS you really can trust the person your asking..THAT is something that is developed over time...Your Pastor is your "undershepherd"...He watches for your soul..so check with him first...!

:wave:
 
Upvote 0

JohnR7

Well-Known Member
Feb 9, 2002
25,258
209
Ohio
✟29,532.00
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Originally posted by EPHRIAM777
Originally posted by Chris H [/i]


....We don't know how long Adam was in the garden before God made Eve...and we don't know how long Adam and Eve lived in the garden prior to their "fall"....&nbsp;



But we do know how old Adam was when he had his first child.

Genesis 5:3&nbsp;And Adam lived one hundred and thirty years, and begot a son in his own likeness, after his image, and named him Seth.

As far as I know, every other time the word "lived" is used in the Bible, it refers to when life began for that person. Life begins with the first breath.

Genesis 2:7&nbsp; And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.



&nbsp;
 
Upvote 0

Sinai

Well-Known Member
Apr 2, 2002
1,127
19
Visit site
✟1,762.00
Faith
Protestant
Originally posted by Chris H:
How do we as Christians who believe in an old earth understand Genesis?

Originally posted by JohnR7:
If you think the earth is older than 12,762 years, then either there is a gap theory. Or there is the theory that "day" in Gen. Ch 1 is a period of time, that we have not yet determined it's length.

Those "Christians who believe in an old earth" generally attempt to reconcile scientific evidence with biblical evidence. They tend to believe that since God is responsible for both the biblical revelation and the natural world, the words of the Bible are true and at the same time are consistent with the facts of nature. In other words, they tend to think that God’s character and attributes are expressed through both channels, and neither negates nor contradicts the other. The theories listed below are the primary explanations I have found thus far that attempt to reconcile science and the Bible:

A. JohnR7 mentioned the Gap theory (also known as the Interval and Restitution theory, the Divine Judgment theory, and the Recreation theory), which was more popular about 50-80 years ago than it is now. The Gap theory is usually largely based upon the fact that Hebrew tends to be more general and less specific than English or Greek. Thus, Hebrew words can often have a wider range of meanings. In the first part of Genesis 1:2 ["and the earth it was formless, void and empty"], the verb hayethah (which is generally translated "it was") can also be translated as "it became." Proponents of the Gap Theory therefore generally claim that Genesis 1:2 should be translated to read "and the earth became formless, void and empty" rather than using the more common translation of the phrase. This theory uses passages (primarily in Isaiah and Ezekiel) regarding the fall of Satan or Lucifer to bolster the theory that the world was created in Gen. 1:1 but became formless and void because of Satan's fall, and then creation continued in verse two. There are, however, some proponents of the Gap theory who go about it slightly differently. Instead of translating hayethah as "it became" they use verse one of Genesis to emphasize that God had created the Earth "in the beginning" of creation, but by verse two, the Earth was formless, void and empty. These persons tend to ignore the fact that Hebrew had no single word for universe and that the Hebrew phrase "the heavens and the earth" is the Hebrew equivalent of the English word universe. Some advocates of the Gap theory combine it with one of the theories more consistent with mainstream science (the theories listed here as B, C and D), although others who adhere to the Gap Theory tend to be young earth creationists.

B. Since the Bible does not specifically say that the six days are consecutive, there are those who assert that each “day” is the time God spoke the next period of creation into existence—but there is an undetermined period of time (possibly lasting billions of years) between each day. In other words, adherents of this theory say there were six days of creation (each of which could be 24 hours—or 1,000 years—or some other period of time) separated by other periods of time. Some who follow this theory also point to the staccato pattern revealed in the fossil record, which indicates that there were periods of time when new forms of life suddenly burst onto the scene.

C. There are those who point out that the Hebrew word for “day” is yom, which can mean either a 24-hour period of time or an indefinite period of time. Thus, those who follow this theory say that each “day” was of an indefinite period of time (even millions or billions of years) and Christians shouldn’t get caught up in insisting that the Bible means something here that it probably does not mean.

D. The final theory is one that has been advanced by physicist and Hebrew Bible scholar Dr. Gerald L. Schroeder. He has proposed that the six “days” are in fact six consecutive 24-hour periods of time measured at the speed of outward thrust using Einstein's theory of relativity and a universal time-clock based on cosmic background radiation and the wavelength of light beginning about the time God initiated creation (what science now calls the Big Bang). Because of time dilation, 144 hours measured at a speed calculated by using such a universal time-clock would be equal to about 15.75 billion Earth-years looking back toward the time of creation.
 
Upvote 0

JohnR7

Well-Known Member
Feb 9, 2002
25,258
209
Ohio
✟29,532.00
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Originally posted by Sinai
In other words, they tend to think that God’s character and attributes are expressed through both channels, and neither negates nor contradicts the other.&nbsp;

Good post Sinai. The belief that Science and the First Chapter of Genesis corroborate rather than dispute each other is not going to win very many&nbsp;popularity contests.&nbsp;We will find skeptics from both the scientific community and Bible schools looking over&nbsp;our shoulder.&nbsp;As Dr. Gerald Schroeder says, our object can only be to help people broaden their perspective and increase their knowledge and help each side to better understand the position of the other. Not to win debates but to begin a healthy discussion that everyone can benifit from.

http://www.chariscorp-wordgems.com/god&amp;religion.science.gls.big.intro.html
 
Upvote 0

JohnR7

Well-Known Member
Feb 9, 2002
25,258
209
Ohio
✟29,532.00
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Originally posted by LightBearer
Genesis chapter 1&nbsp;does use the expressions "evening" and "morning" relative to the creative periods or Days. But does indicate that they were 24 hours long?&nbsp;

Evening and morning means dusk and dawn. It indicate a beginning and an end. Alpha &amp; Onega in the Greek. It was on the fourth "day" of Genesis that God set the sun and the moon in their place and seperated day from night. Without the moon to stabalize the spin rate of the earth and the angle of the tilt, there would be no day as we now know it. In Quatium Physics they suggest that a event that takes place later in time, can have an effect on a event that takes place before it. But this is not consistant with the level of teaching in the Bible, where it is designed so that a child can understand it. The Bible is not designed for Phd's to understand, it is designed for a child to understand.

Luke 18:17&nbsp; "Truly I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child shall not enter it at all."


&nbsp;
 
Upvote 0

JohnR7

Well-Known Member
Feb 9, 2002
25,258
209
Ohio
✟29,532.00
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Originally posted by doone128
Why shouldn't day mean literal 24 hour day?

It could only be a 24 hour day if the universe was created 12,762 years ago. The 24 hour days only works if you believe in a young earth. It does not work if you believe in an old earth.

The Spindown rate of the earth is&nbsp;1.5 to&nbsp;2 seconds every 100,000 years. If you use the 2 second rate. Then in 180 million years the earth would slow down enough so the day would be one hour longer. That means 4.32 billion years ago there would be no day &amp; night&nbsp;as we know it now, it would be all darkness.

If the spindown rate began on the end of the&nbsp;fourth day. Then the first day as we now know it would have been around 12 to 14&nbsp;hours in length. Or around 6 to 7 hours a day of sunlight. Most grass and trees require at least 5 to 6 hours a day of sunlight to grow. There maybe a few types of grass that can grow in 4 to 5 hours a day of sunlight, but it would grow very slow.
 
Upvote 0

LightBearer

Veteran
Aug 9, 2002
1,916
48
Visit site
✟19,072.00
Faith
Jehovahs Witness
Originally posted by JohnR7
Evening and morning means dusk and dawn. It indicate a beginning and an end. Alpha &amp; Onega in the Greek. It was on the fourth "day" of Genesis that God set the sun and the moon in their place and seperated day from night. Without the moon to stabalize the spin rate of the earth and the angle of the tilt, there would be no day as we now know it. In Quatium Physics they suggest that a event that takes place later in time, can have an effect on a event that takes place before it. But this is not consistant with the level of teaching in the Bible, where it is designed so that a child can understand it. The Bible is not designed for Phd's to understand, it is designed for a child to understand.

Luke 18:17&nbsp; "Truly I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child shall not enter it at all."&nbsp;
&nbsp;

&nbsp; In the beggining God created the Heavens.&nbsp;

"Now the earth proved to be formless and waste and there was darkness upon the surface of [the] watery deep" Genesis 1:2

It is helpful to keep in mind when examining&nbsp;Genesis&nbsp; that it approaches matters from the standpoint of people on earth. So it describes events as they would have been seen by human observers had they been present. This can be&nbsp;seen from the way it&nbsp;discribes events on the fourth Genesis "day." There the sun and moon are described as great luminaries in comparison to the stars. Yet many stars are far greater than our sun, and the moon is insignificant in comparison to them. But not to an earthly observer. So, as seen from the earth, the sun appears to be a 'greater light that rules the day' and the moon a 'lesser light that dominates the night.' Genesis 1:14-18.

"Let luminaries come to be in the expanse of the heavens(or be able to be seen&nbsp;directly from earths surface)&nbsp;to make a division between the day and the night; and they must serve as signs and for seasons and for days and years. And they must serve as luminaries in the expanse of the heavens to shine upon the earth.' And it came to be so. And God proceeded to make (Not create.&nbsp; But made them dominate the sky by making them&nbsp;directly visible)&nbsp;the two great luminaries, the greater luminary for dominating the day and the lesser luminary for dominating the night, and also the stars." Genesis 1:14-16.

So the Sun and Moon were already created and in place but, could not have&nbsp;been discerned directly by an earthly observer.&nbsp; Previously, on the first "day," the expression "Let light come to be" was used. The Hebrew word there used for "light" is 'ohr, meaning light in a general sense. But on the fourth "day," the Hebrew word changes to ma·'ohr', which means the source of the light. Rotherham, in a footnote on "Luminaries" in the Emphasised Bible, says: "In ver. Ge 1:3, 'ôr ['ohr], light diffused." Then he goes on to show that the Hebrew word ma·'ohr' in Ge 1 verse 14 means something "affording light." On the first "day" diffused light evidently penetrated the swaddling bands, but the sources of that light could not have been seen by an earthly observer because of the cloud layers still enveloping the earth. Now, on this fourth "day," things apparently changed.

An atmosphere initially rich in carbon dioxide may have caused an earth-wide hot climate. But the lush growth of vegetation during the third and fourth creative periods would absorb some of this heat-retaining blanket of carbon dioxide. The vegetation, in turn, would release oxygen-a requirement for animal life which was to follow.

Now, had there been an earthly observer, he would be able to discern the sun, moon and stars, which would "serve as signs and for seasons and for days and years."

So the Sun and Moon were not created on the 4th Day but were made to appear in the sky by removing the obsruction that prevented them from being seen directly by an earthly observer.
 
Upvote 0

JohnR7

Well-Known Member
Feb 9, 2002
25,258
209
Ohio
✟29,532.00
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Originally posted by LightBearer
&nbsp;&nbsp;So the Sun and Moon were already created and in place but, could not have&nbsp;been discerned directly by an earthly observer.&nbsp;

They maybe have been heading toward their place or what the Bible calls a circuit.&nbsp;They could&nbsp;already have had&nbsp;an influence on each other. But there is nothing to indicate that they were locked into their current configuaton before the fourth day.

Genesis mentions the moon, and also seasons. We now know that the moon holds the earth in it's almost exact tilt position, so that we have steady and somewhat consistant seasons. The fact that for the earth's tilt to go though a whole "wobble" in the exact same length of time that it takes for the earth to go around the sun is a interesting "coincidence" if you do not believe in creation.

It is believed the earth was spinning off from the sun and the moon was spinning off from the earth, because the spin rate was so much faster than what it is now.

Then on the fouth day gravity told hold so the earth, moon &amp; sun all got locked into their current position, and have remained pretty much&nbsp;consistant for what could be billions of years now.

The spin rate of the earth continues to slow down, because the earth is made up of liquids and solids and the friction between these two causes the earth to slow down. Or actually it transfers it's motion to the moon and is expressed in the receding rate of the moon.
 
Upvote 0

notto

Legend
May 31, 2002
11,130
664
56
Visit site
✟37,369.00
Faith
United Ch. of Christ
Originally posted by JohnR7

The fact that for the earth's tilt to go though a whole "wobble" in the exact same length of time that it takes for the earth to go around the sun is a interesting "coincidence" if you do not believe in creation.

Why do we have seasons?
http://plabpc.csustan.edu/astro/seasons.htm

"As the Earth travels around the Sun, it is also spinning on its own axis. This axis is tilted such that it makes an angle of 23.5 degrees to the plane of the Earth's orbit. It is because of this tilt that the Earth has seasons. If the axis were not tilted, all parts of the globe would have the same season all year round."

There is no "coincidence" because the tilt does not go through a "wobble". It stays exactly the same.
 
Upvote 0

JohnR7

Well-Known Member
Feb 9, 2002
25,258
209
Ohio
✟29,532.00
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Originally posted by notto

There is no "coincidence" because the tilt does not go through a "wobble". It stays exactly the same.

Oh, ok. Understanding was there, when God did all of this. His understanding of this is our delight&nbsp;today.

Proverbs 8:27-31
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth: [28] When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep: [29] When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth: [30] Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him; [31] Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.


&nbsp;
 
Upvote 0

EPHRIAM777

A REAL NICE GUY..!
Dec 6, 2002
448
2
PHILLY
✟620.00
Originally posted by JohnR7 [/i]
But we do know how old Adam was when he had his first child.

Genesis 5:3&nbsp;And Adam lived one hundred and thirty years, and begot a son in his own likeness, after his image, and named him Seth.

As far as I know, every other time the word "lived" is used in the Bible, it refers to when life began for that person. Life begins with the first breath.

Genesis 2:7&nbsp; And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.


Eph writes...

God said " in the day that ye eat of the tree..ect ect..You will die"...How long did Adam live in the garden prior to eating from the tree..?

Because in my mind he didn't age...one day or minute..prior to his eating..!

Once he ate from the tree...He began to age...and his age then is recorded...You might disagree but "aging" is the point when we are born and begin to die..The clock is ticking..

Adam died within the 1000 yrs period..a day is as a 1000 yrs to the Lord and 1000 yrs as a day..! Adam "died" within that 1000 yr "day"..he was under 1000 yrs old thus fulfilling the promise God made to him.." IN the day ye eat of the tree..ye will die"...

Prior to Adam eating from that tree...He didn't die...or age..at all..!

So the question then is...How long was Adam in the garden..before he ate from the tree and BEGAN the clock ticking to his death...?

1 day..? 5 days..? 1 trillion billion days..? :) The Bible doesn't say..so neither should we..

Plus remember God didn't make the sun and moon till GEN 1:14:19...That was the "4th" day....A valid question could be asked...Since the sun and moon weren't IN place during the first 3 days...Was the unit of measure the same for the first 3 days...as it was for the forth day..?

I believe that God made the heaven and the earth..but how that all came about by HIM alone...isn't based on the mathematic's concieved by a Monk who lived in the mid evil..dark ages and also claimed the earth was flat..!

Bishop Usher was his name if I recall correctly...! :)

To me the earth can be VERY old...but ADAM hasn't been on it very long..!

2 different issues / subjects...are being discussed here....The age of the Earth...and How long ago was Adam made from the dust of the Earth..!

:)
 
Upvote 0