Genesis

[Chris H]

How do we as Christians who believe in an old earth understand Genesis? Recorded history goes back further than Adam. I'd like to hear how everyone here who is a Christian and also old earth understands things.

Sarcastic remarks by athiests will not be appreciated here.

Also, I ask no Hovindesque yec arguements.

So, Ladies and gentlemen of the progressive creation group here...

How do you then understand Genesis?

In Christ

Christopher

Also, Where do I go on Christianforums to get spiritual help?

 

[JohnR7]

Originally posted by Chris H
How do we as Christians who believe in an old earth understand Genesis?

If you think the earth is older than 12,762 years, then either there is a gap theory. Or there is the theory that "day" in Gen. Ch 1 is a period of time, that we have not yet determined it's length.

 

[fragmentsofdreams]

Originally posted by Chris H
How do we as Christians who believe in an old earth understand Genesis? Recorded history goes back further than Adam. I'd like to hear how everyone here who is a Christian and also old earth understands things.

Sarcastic remarks by athiests will not be appreciated here.

Also, I ask no Hovindesque yec arguements.

So, Ladies and gentlemen of the progressive creation group here...

How do you then understand Genesis?

In Christ

Christopher

Also, Where do I go on Christianforums to get spiritual help?

Many Christians, including myself, interpret the Genesis stories as myths. They reveal truths about God, Creation, and humanity but are not meant to be used as historical documents.

Try going to Prayer, Advice & Praise Reports or For those who Struggle...

 

[doone128]

If you interpret Genesis as myth, then who's to say that the rest isn't myth as well? No offence, but If you can't believe Genesis, word for word, then why bother claiming to be a Christian? Why would Jesus quote from a myth?

In Christ.

 

[Morat]

Why wouldn't he? He used parables after all. And while myths are fictional, that doesn't mean they don't contain their own truths.

The Boy Who Cried Wolf is a myth, after all. Yet it teaches something important, does it not?

Mythology, like all fiction, can teach truths that aren't as easily grasped by other methods.

 

[JohnR7]

Originally posted by fragmentsofdreams
Many Christians, including myself, interpret the Genesis stories as myths.

You may as well say: "no opinion" As soon as you say "it is a myth" you have put yourself out of business and you have nothing more constructive to say about it. All that is left is to attack those who do have something to add or contribute to the conversation.

 

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by fragmentsofdreams
Many Christians, including myself, interpret the Genesis stories as myths. They reveal truths about God, Creation, and humanity but are not meant to be used as historical documents.

Try going to Prayer, Advice & Praise Reports or For those who Struggle...

and to add to this...Why do some Christians insist on assigning a timeline to Genesis?  Their are no dates to Genesis...(spare me the Usher Chronological timeline)...

My question would be...WHY do Christians feel the need to alter science to fit a 6,000 year timeline (+/-) they believe on faith alone.

Spare me the Hebrew Calendar as well.  I've posted the history of the innacuracies/lies associated with that thing.

To alter science to fit religous beliefs is simply living a lie...

The same goes with altering religous beliefs to fit science.

 

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by doone128
If you interpret Genesis as myth, then who's to say that the rest isn't myth as well? No offence, but If you can't believe Genesis, word for word, then why bother claiming to be a Christian? Why would Jesus quote from a myth?

In Christ.

I can't speek for him...but I believe his point was the timeline many Christians try to wrongfully associate with Genesis is a myth....

 

[Hishandmaiden]

Genesis to me is not a myth, but actual truth.
I believe God creates the world in seven days, and the seven days are actual days.

 

[lithium.]

I believe it's (Genesis) a myth there is no evidence fo it.

 

[Ribozome]

Days are measured by the rotaion of the earth, or in the days of Genesis, perhaps the rising and setting sun. The author of Genesis surely knew this, yet earth was not created first, nor was the sun. Such glaring contradictions were not oversights, but clues to deeper meaning. That Genesis is allegorical was clear even to the early Jews. Consider the forbidden fruit which was to bring death to whoever ate it, yet Adam and Eve did not die. The contradiction indicates the deeper meaning of spiritual death. That is how Genesis and the creation account was intended to be written.

 

[doone128]

Originally posted by rpggal
Genesis to me is not a myth, but actual truth.
I believe God creates the world in seven days, and the seven days are actual days.

I agree. I don't understand why so many people have trouble with this. Genesis clearly states that an evening and a morning is a day.... not just once, but over and over again. Why shouldn't day mean literal 24 hour day? Why do people only question the time period of a day in Genesis? The same Hebrew word is used throughout the bible, but people only challenge the Genesis account.
As for evidence, Fossils all over the world, the deepest depths, the highest mountains, some died giving birth, some died with food still in their mouths and stomachs. These are not remains from an evolutionary species but from a global catastophy. Like a Flood. It's not that difficult to understand, is it?
Adam and Eve DID die. Physically. This is what God meant. They rebelled against Gods word. Rebellion is Sin.
Rom6.[23] "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord"

 

[David Gould]

Originally posted by doone128
I agree. I don't understand why so many people have trouble with this. Genesis clearly states that an evening and a morning is a day.... not just once, but over and over again. Why shouldn't day mean literal 24 hour day? Why do people only question the time period of a day in Genesis? The same Hebrew word is used throughout the bible, but people only challenge the Genesis account.
As for evidence, Fossils all over the world, the deepest depths, the highest mountains, some died giving birth, some died with food still in their mouths and stomachs. These are not remains from an evolutionary species but from a global catastophy. Like a Flood. It's not that difficult to understand, is it?
Adam and Eve DID die. Physically. This is what God meant. They rebelled against Gods word. Rebellion is Sin.
Rom6.[23] "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord"

Umm, does not Genesis give God's warning as the day that thou eats from this tree thou shalt surely die?

They did not physically die that same day, did they?

This seems to obviously point to a physical death.

Unless of course day meant a different time period ....

 

[doone128]

That same day they started to die.
Gen2:[17] But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Isn't this similar to the use 'In my fathers day, things were different.....' ??

But the original creation days were specifc:
Gen1:[5] And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Note, the use of 'evening and morning were the first day'. This is quite clearly one literal day.

 

[Anthony]

Originally posted by Ribozome
Consider the forbidden fruit which was to bring death to whoever ate it, yet Adam and Eve did not die.

Adam and Eve didn't die?

 

[stillsmallvoice]

Hi all!

Chris H asked:

How do you then understand Genesis?

I'm going to recycle & resubmit an old post:

About a "literal reading" of the Tanakh. I don't think that any two people could agree on a "literal reading" of, say, Genesis (certainly mine, as an orthodox Jew and based on the original Hebrew, will probably differ in many particulars from that of a fundamentalist Protestant, based on the
KJV); such a thing is inherently subjective and based on our own idiosyncrasies, psychological/emotional/spiritual baggage and personal it-seems-to-me's. Thus, we should be very leery of basing beliefs and/or arguments on a "literal reading" of the scriptures. Those who do insist on a strict, narrow, "literal" interpretation of this or that section of scripture are, I believe, forcing it into a literary and spiritual strait-jacket entirely of their own devising that does no justice to the scriptures..

So, that being said, how do I, as an orthodox Jew, view Genesis? Well, of course, I believe that it (and the other 4 books of the Torah: Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy) is the literal word of God as He revealed it to Moses our Teacher. We believe that the Torah can be
understood/appreciated/interpreted on any of four general levels ranging from that which is most in accord with a close reading of the (original Hebrew!!!) text, to the metaphorical, to the most rarefied and esoteric (the grasp of which is waaay beyond most of us). Who is to say which chapter and verse of Genesis is to be best understood or appreciated on which level? Moreover, our Sages say that the Torah is like a diamond with many facets, each with its own brilliance, each offering a different perspective from which to behold the wondrous jewel.

Lastly, I would humbly argue that we are grasping at trees & missing the forest. What is more important, (sterile?) debates over whether Genesis proves/supports or disproves/opposes this or that theory of creation or evolution, or discussing, studying and seeking to internalize its sublime moral, ethical and spiritual truths (such as befit the word of God)?

Be well!

ssv

 

[Freodin]

Originally posted by doone128
As for evidence, Fossils all over the world, the deepest depths, the highest mountains, some died giving birth, some died with food still in their mouths and stomachs. These are not remains from an evolutionary species but from a global catastophy. Like a Flood. It's not that difficult to understand, is it?

Err, so you think there is no way an animal could die while eating, digesting or giving birth?

 

[stillsmallvoice]

Hi all!

I forgot to mention that while I was with Da Boyz yesterday, we went to the village of Beit Zayit just west of Jerusalem & saw some some really neat dinosaur footprints/tracks in a huge flat rock there. (See http://www.dinodata.net/DNM/Avnimelech.htm for details.) Yohanan, who will be 6 in January, is preparing a report on dinosaurs for his (religious) kindergarten class. We took photos of him (smiling from ear-to-ear) sitting/standing next to the footprints & will use them as props.

Be well!

ssv

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by doone128
As for evidence, Fossils all over the world, the deepest depths, the highest mountains, some died giving birth, some died with food still in their mouths and stomachs. These are not remains from an evolutionary species but from a global catastophy. Like a Flood. 

The geological proof of a global flood isn't there.  The burden of proof to support your statement lies with you.  As far as the fossil record....if you're claims are that the fossilized animals were buried all at the same time...again science refutes that.

If you can conlusively prove these statements, you're nobel prize awaits and you're fame will equal that of Einstein's.

My point to all this?  The YEC 'movement' is simply a lie.  There is no scientific evidence to support a 6,000 (+/-) year old earth.  There are no biblical passages to support it either.  (You can spare me Usher's timeline associated with the geneology written in the Genesis account).... Attempting to adjust scientific findings to fit some pre-determined time line Genesis supposedly represents is nothing more than a deception to Christians...

Misrepresentation of science to 'fit' any preconceived notion of Christianity does more harm than good.

Regards,

Smilin 

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by stillsmallvoice
Hi all!

I forgot to mention that while I was with Da Boyz yesterday, we went to the village of Beit Zayit just west of Jerusalem & saw some some really neat dinosaur footprints/tracks in a huge flat rock there. (See http://www.dinodata.net/DNM/Avnimelech.htm for details.) Yohanan, who will be 6 in January, is preparing a report on dinosaurs for his (religious) kindergarten class. We took photos of him (smiling from ear-to-ear) sitting/standing next to the footprints & will use them as props.

Be well!

ssv

Nice site SSV!  I didn't realize their were such fossilized remains in your region...