Genesis?

[BradinTX]

I just began reading my one year Bible and I am having some trouble with the early chapters of Genesis. Here is the schedule:
Creation
Day 1 - Light and darkness
Day 2 - Separated heavens from earth
Day 3 - Separated earth and sea / Created plant life
Day 4 - Sun/Moon Seasons
Day 5 - Fish and birds
Day 6 - Cattle, creatures, Man & Woman
Day 7 - Rest

I know there is a lot of debate as to weather this was done is 7 days as we know them or in God's time. My assumption is that this must be on a time line other than 24 hours, particularly considering that there was no sun and moon till the forth day.

Gen. 2:19 - Out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them.
According to previous scripture, birds of the air had already been created.

Gen. 2:21 - God creates woman from man for the first time. At this point, there was no other woman. According to previous scripture, this had to have happened on the 6th day, as it indicates that God created man and woman on the 6th day. (see Gen. 1:27 man & woman created on the 6th day, and it was very good) ok fine, next…

Gen. 3:15 - God is talking to the snake, which by the way, I have still yet to hear him identify the snake as Satin. (is that assumed?) What does it mean were scripture reads "He shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise His heel." The He/His is capitalized so this is a reference to God isn't it? Anyway, this isn't so much a question on creation as it is something that didn't make sense to me. Back to my primary points of confusion now

Gen. 3:20 - and Adam called his wife's name Eve, because she was the mother of ALL living. - the scriptures that I am leading up to next would leave me to believe that God may have created Adam and Eve, but then he created lots of other men and woman on His own apart from Adam and Eve giving birth to them as was stated in 3:20.

Gen. 4:14 - Cain is asking mercy from God and is concerned that if God executes his stated judgment that, "it will happen that ANYONE who finds me will kill me." - Ok, this isn't making sense. Anyone who??? At this point, according to scripture, the only 3 people on the planet are Adam, Eve and Cain. According to scripture though, this is not possible as in the very next verse, Gen. 4:15 God offers protection for Cain by placing a curse of vengeance 7 fold on anyone who ever kills Cain.

Next in Gen. 4:17 it states that Cain knew his wife. What wife? There is no record of anyone else being born yet. Where did this 2nd woman in existence, mother of Enoch, come from? Who were all these people who lived in the city that they built and named after their son? Who helped build this city?

Later in Gen. 4:25-26 Seth is brought into the picture. I found the end of verse 26 to be interesting. "Then men began to call on the name of the Lord." No real point here, just interesting.

Ok. Next in Gen. 5 we go into the time lines that suggest that God created man and woman in or around 4000 BC. I have not personally tried to do the math, but I feel confident that many people before me have and that this is why all the time lines out there suggest Adam came around 4000 BC.

I have a book called Get into the bible. It is a really cool companion book to read along with the bible that I love because it offers lots of interesting information about the scriptures. It was written by Steven Miller. I suspect you are familiar with it or would at least recognize it if you saw it because I've seen it in lots of places.

The book has one time line showing that Adam came in 4000 BC or so and Abraham followed in 2100 BC. It has several other bible figures all the way up to Jesus who it has listed as being born in 7/6BC. I assume that we have been able to prove through archaeological findings that Christ was born a few years earlier than we first suspected. In my opinion, if this is the case, we still have not hit the 21st century or it just happened yesterday. ANYWAY....

Now back to the gist of my questioning about where all these people came from out of Adam and Eave who were on earth around 4000BC. Another time line in that book shows that the first known Egyptian calendar was from 4230BC. Evidently we have physical proof that there was an entire society of people prior to 4000BC. Even if the Adam and Eve timeline was off a little, there is no explanation as to what group of people it was that Cain was concerned were going to kill him and where they came from.

On another related note, I watched a History Channel (man I miss the history channel since we got rid of TV) special last summer that discussed timelines of creation vs. evolution. The special basically made the point that there is scientific evidence that shows that the earth and man is not nearly as old as we originally thought. I believe they were pointing out that carbon 14 dating is totally flawed beyond a certain number of thousand years and that it could not hold water so to speak. It stated that the dinosaurs may not actually be millions of years old as had originally been thought. Some believe they were actually thousands of years old.

Any thoughts or answers are certainly appreciated.

 

[kenneth558]

As you read the rest of the Bible, you will find many, many places where an event or sequence of events is recounted twice in succession, especially in the Old Testament. God knows why, we just need to get used to it.

You seem to assume that Cain killed Abel before Eve had any more children. According to other writings that are said to be from Noah's time or before, Cain killed abel after Eve had other children, grandchildren, etc. You will find that the Bible many times recounts one subject completely or semi-completely before going back in time to begin recounting another subject. If I recall correctly, Cain was about 123 years old then, according to one of the pseudoepigraphical books.

I presume you got rid of TV for the sake of the Lord? If so, great job and the Lord bless you for it!

 

[Mathematician]

Brad,

Gen. 2:19 - Out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them.
According to previous scripture, birds of the air had already been created.

Hebrew has no tense. It just says things were done. The translator has to decide when

Gen. 2:21 - God creates woman from man for the first time. At this point, there was no other woman. According to previous scripture, this had to have happened on the 6th day, as it indicates that God created man and woman on the 6th day. (see Gen. 1:27 man & woman created on the 6th day, and it was very good) ok fine, next…

Two possibilities. They're retelling with more detail. Or this is a completely different man and woman than was created in Chapter 1. Consider the second option seriously.

Gen. 3:15 - God is talking to the snake, which by the way, I have still yet to hear him identify the snake as Satin. (is that assumed?) What does it mean were scripture reads "He shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise His heel." The He/His is capitalized so this is a reference to God isn't it? Anyway, this isn't so much a question on creation as it is something that didn't make sense to me. Back to my primary points of confusion now

The serpent is assumed to be Satan. The translators assume the "He" is Jesus. Eve apparently assumes it's Cain.

Gen. 3:20 - and Adam called his wife's name Eve, because she was the mother of ALL living. - the scriptures that I am leading up to next would leave me to believe that God may have created Adam and Eve, but then he created lots of other men and woman on His own apart from Adam and Eve giving birth to them as was stated in 3:20.

Or he created those others earlier. There were apparently a lot more of them.

Gen. 4:14 - Cain is asking mercy from God and is concerned that if God executes his stated judgment that, "it will happen that ANYONE who finds me will kill me." - Ok, this isn't making sense. Anyone who??? At this point, according to scripture, the only 3 people on the planet are Adam, Eve and Cain. According to scripture though, this is not possible as in the very next verse, Gen. 4:15 God offers protection for Cain by placing a curse of vengeance 7 fold on anyone who ever kills Cain.

Cain finds those other people in Nod and eventually rules over them.

Next in Gen. 4:17 it states that Cain knew his wife. What wife? There is no record of anyone else being born yet. Where did this 2nd woman in existence, mother of Enoch, come from? Who were all these people who lived in the city that they built and named after their son? Who helped build this city?

Did I answer that already?

Ok. Next in Gen. 5 we go into the time lines that suggest that God created man and woman in or around 4000 BC. I have not personally tried to do the math, but I feel confident that many people before me have and that this is why all the time lines out there suggest Adam came around 4000 BC.

The timelines are not in my Bible. They are someone's interpretation of all the time statements.

I have a book called Get into the bible. It is a really cool companion book to read along with the bible that I love because it offers lots of interesting information about the scriptures. It was written by Steven Miller. I suspect you are familiar with it or would at least recognize it if you saw it because I've seen it in lots of places.

Not familiar with it.

The book has one time line showing that Adam came in 4000 BC or so and Abraham followed in 2100 BC. It has several other bible figures all the way up to Jesus who it has listed as being born in 7/6BC. I assume that we have been able to prove through archaeological findings that Christ was born a few years earlier than we first suspected. In my opinion, if this is the case, we still have not hit the 21st century or it just happened yesterday. ANYWAY....

I believe Abraham was more like 1800 BC. I believe 7/6 BC is correct for Jesus birth. Others place it in 2 BC. We don't know.

Now back to the gist of my questioning about where all these people came from out of Adam and Eave who were on earth around 4000BC. Another time line in that book shows that the first known Egyptian calendar was from 4230BC. Evidently we have physical proof that there was an entire society of people prior to 4000BC. Even if the Adam and Eve timeline was off a little, there is no explanation as to what group of people it was that Cain was concerned were going to kill him and where they came from.

We know where Cain went. Enoch is the Sumerian city of Uruk. It was Nk in Hebrew and Rk in Sumerian.

On another related note, I watched a History Channel (man I miss the history channel since we got rid of TV) special last summer that discussed timelines of creation vs. evolution. The special basically made the point that there is scientific evidence that shows that the earth and man is not nearly as old as we originally thought. I believe they were pointing out that carbon 14 dating is totally flawed beyond a certain number of thousand years and that it could not hold water so to speak. It stated that the dinosaurs may not actually be millions of years old as had originally been thought. Some believe they were actually thousands of years old.

When you get to Exodus, you'll see the plague of darkness. In Joshua, you'll see the destruction of Jericho. C-14 dating places those events 44 years apart. (Most Bible references place them 40-41 years apart. Gary North's, Moses & Pharoah available at www.freebooks.com places them 43-46 years apart. Who's got the better theory?) C-14 dating is good to 100,000 years and it is good to within a year or to over the Old Testament period of human history. (There's a problem attaching it precisely to our calendar and another problem finding appropriate items to date.)

There's a separate C-13 test that can be done to determine if something was once living. If the C-13 test confirms it was once living and the C-14 test turns up no C-14, then the thing died at least 100,000 years ago. There is a lot of stuff that is at least that old.

 

[BradinTX]

Wow. Thanks for the detailed reply! Blessings....

Yes, I did give up the TV for the Lord. We have kept one our boy's playroom that is not hooked up to cable or even an antenna. We use it for our children to watch movies that we have selected. I will admit that a small piece of the reason that I gave it up was purely selfish in that I felt I could use my time better and accomplish more without it.

The primary reason was the content. I loved Fox News, but they also own FX. FX puts out TV shows that I really liked ALOT. The problem is that after my wife and I came back into relationship with the Lord, we became ill every time we had to endure the name of God being cursed. FX probably curses the name of God 25 times during the course of any given evening. We started by turning off FX. It wasn't long before I lost the taste for Fox News as well just because they are owned by the same company and FNC promotes FX heavily.

Next we rented a movie and within a few minutes was again enduring the name of our God being cursed. We turned it off and returned it without finishing it. Within about a week or so, I had the cable that we were receiving illegally turned off and decided that we should learn to live without it. It has been a HUGE BLESSING in our lives and I recommend that anyone try it!

We did find a great web site that will tell us in advance of attending a movie if we are going to have to hear God being cursed. It is pluggedinonline. It's a great review stuff for lots of other forms of media as well.

Evidently I have not been around long enough to post a link, so add .com after the above listed site name.

Brad in Plano, TX

 

[FreezBee]

C-14 dating is good to 100,000 years and it is good to within a year or to over the Old Testament period of human history.

Very good post! Just a minor point: to the best of my knowledge, C-14 dating is only considered reliable within a arange og 5-10,000 years, because it needs to be calibrated with three ring dating. C-14 is produced in the atmosphere due to sunlight acting on N-14. Originally it was thought that the amount of C-14 in the atmosphere was constant, but due to fluctuations in the solar radiation, the production rate of C-14 from N-14 has varied over time, so C-14 dating is only reliable within the time period in which we have three ring dating.

Well, that's what I have been told If this is outdated information, please do correct me.


- FreezBee

 

[Mathematician]

Very good post! Just a minor point: to the best of my knowledge, C-14 dating is only considered reliable within a arange og 5-10,000 years, because it needs to be calibrated with three ring dating.

Define reliable. Without calibration, it's probably good to within about 5000 years all the way out to near 100,000 years.

In certain lake beds, there are several distinct layers of debris laid down each year. Layers such as early spring silt, late spring pollen, summer insect parts, fall leaf debris. These are called varves.

I understand varves have been calibrated well enough that we can get about 100 year resolution back to 40,000 BC. The data is available for calibration to +/- one year out to maybe 60,000 years, but that will take a lot of work.

 

[Breetai]

I just began reading my one year Bible and I am having some trouble with the early chapters of Genesis. Here is the schedule:
Creation
Day 1 - Light and darkness
Day 2 - Separated heavens from earth
Day 3 - Separated earth and sea / Created plant life
Day 4 - Sun/Moon Seasons
Day 5 - Fish and birds
Day 6 - Cattle, creatures, Man & Woman
Day 7 - Rest

I know there is a lot of debate as to weather this was done is 7 days as we know them or in God's time. My assumption is that this must be on a time line other than 24 hours, particularly considering that there was no sun and moon till the forth day.

What does that matter? The Bible may have said "day" because it actually means days as we know them. Of course, it's possible that these days were actually very long. We don't know.

Gen. 2:19 - Out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them.
According to previous scripture, birds of the air had already been created.

Gen. 2:4-4:26 is simply a retelling of the creation story, in more detail. Don't listen to Mathematician's other option. It takes the story completely out of context. There are really very few scholars who will even consider that this is two seperate creations. Most just laugh it off.

Think of it this way; there was no sin before Adam and Eve. If there was no sin, then there was no death. Death didn't exist before the fall. There could not have been a proto-Adam and Eve, unless you destroy the Gospel.

Gen. 2:21 - God creates woman from man for the first time. At this point, there was no other woman. According to previous scripture, this had to have happened on the 6th day, as it indicates that God created man and woman on the 6th day. (see Gen. 1:27 man & woman created on the 6th day, and it was very good) ok fine, next…

Gen. 3:15 - God is talking to the snake, which by the way, I have still yet to hear him identify the snake as Satin. (is that assumed?) What does it mean were scripture reads "He shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise His heel." The He/His is capitalized so this is a reference to God isn't it? Anyway, this isn't so much a question on creation as it is something that didn't make sense to me. Back to my primary points of confusion now

The serphant is identified as Satan later in the Bible; in II Cor. 11:3, 14; Rev. 12:8; 20:2).

3:15 He will crush your head,
and you will strike His heel. (NIV)

The "He" is the offspring of Eve. Who is this offspring? It's referring to Jesus! This is the very first reference to Christ in the Bible. Interestingly, this verse says "your (the woman's) offspring", but does not necessarily count this as Adam's offspring as well. This is assumed now, but it is another hint at a future redeemer. The "you (Satan) will strike His heel", is referring to Jesus' death on the cross.

References to Christ are all over the OT.

Gen. 3:20 - and Adam called his wife's name Eve, because she was the mother of ALL living. - the scriptures that I am leading up to next would leave me to believe that God may have created Adam and Eve, but then he created lots of other men and woman on His own apart from Adam and Eve giving birth to them as was stated in 3:20.

Nope. Everyman, save Christ, is a decentant of Adam and Eve.

Gen. 4:14 - Cain is asking mercy from God and is concerned that if God executes his stated judgment that, "it will happen that ANYONE who finds me will kill me." - Ok, this isn't making sense. Anyone who??? At this point, according to scripture, the only 3 people on the planet are Adam, Eve and Cain. According to scripture though, this is not possible as in the very next verse, Gen. 4:15 God offers protection for Cain by placing a curse of vengeance 7 fold on anyone who ever kills Cain.

Some other people have already answered this one.

There were many more than three people on the planet at this time. The Bible doesn't list them, but it is implied. This is a common question that has a simple answer. This answer is also implied in Gen. 5:4. You will also want to note that it was not forbidden to marry a family member until Moses (Lev. 18:6).

Next in Gen. 4:17 it states that Cain knew his wife. What wife? There is no record of anyone else being born yet. Where did this 2nd woman in existence, mother of Enoch, come from? Who were all these people who lived in the city that they built and named after their son? Who helped build this city?

This is answered above.

Later in Gen. 4:25-26 Seth is brought into the picture. I found the end of verse 26 to be interesting. "Then men began to call on the name of the Lord." No real point here, just interesting.

Yup.

Ok. Next in Gen. 5 we go into the time lines that suggest that God created man and woman in or around 4000 BC. I have not personally tried to do the math, but I feel confident that many people before me have and that this is why all the time lines out there suggest Adam came around 4000 BC.

This date comes from Archbishop Usher, in 1650 AD. He dated Adam at 4004 BC. Likewise, he dated the flood at 2348 BC. This is based on the Masoretic Text; and old text of the Hebrew Bible (OT).

There are a number of other common texts that the Bible has been translated from. These are called the Septuagint and the Samaritan Pentateuch. The Septuagint dates Adam at about 5500 BC. The Samaritan Pentateuch dates Adam at about 4300 BC. So, you see, there are actually a few possible dates.

I have a book called Get into the bible. It is a really cool companion book to read along with the bible that I love because it offers lots of interesting information about the scriptures. It was written by Steven Miller. I suspect you are familiar with it or would at least recognize it if you saw it because I've seen it in lots of places.

I don't know it.

The book has one time line showing that Adam came in 4000 BC or so and Abraham followed in 2100 BC. It has several other bible figures all the way up to Jesus who it has listed as being born in 7/6BC. I assume that we have been able to prove through archaeological findings that Christ was born a few years earlier than we first suspected. In my opinion, if this is the case, we still have not hit the 21st century or it just happened yesterday. ANYWAY....

Due to an inconsistant calender, we don't know exactly what year Jesus was born in.

Now back to the gist of my questioning about where all these people came from out of Adam and Eave who were on earth around 4000BC. Another time line in that book shows that the first known Egyptian calendar was from 4230BC. Evidently we have physical proof that there was an entire society of people prior to 4000BC. Even if the Adam and Eve timeline was off a little, there is no explanation as to what group of people it was that Cain was concerned were going to kill him and where they came from.

My above answer about different dates comes into effect here. As well, you should know that not all archeologists, anthropologists, Egyptologists, etc., agree on dates. Many disagree, sometimes very dogmatically, with each other. As well, you'll have to investigate the source that says there was an entire society of people prior to 4000 BC. As I've said, many scientics cannot agree on dates. Many dates that have been "known" in the past, not have been given new dates.

As for Egyptologists, many disagree on the date of Menes; thought by many to be the first historical king of Egypt. He has been dated anywhere, by various Egyptologists, between 5500 and 2000 BC.

As you can see, there certainly is room for both the Bible and Egyptologists to be correct. There is room for error.

On another related note, I watched a History Channel (man I miss the history channel since we got rid of TV) special last summer that discussed timelines of creation vs. evolution. The special basically made the point that there is scientific evidence that shows that the earth and man is not nearly as old as we originally thought. I believe they were pointing out that carbon 14 dating is totally flawed beyond a certain number of thousand years and that it could not hold water so to speak. It stated that the dinosaurs may not actually be millions of years old as had originally been thought. Some believe they were actually thousands of years old.

As some have said, there is lots of question as to just how reliable C-14 dating is after a few thousand years. So, C-14 dating does not hinder the belief of a young earth.

Any thoughts or answers are certainly appreciated.

No problem!

 

[FreezBee]

Define reliable. Without calibration, it's probably good to within about 5000 years all the way out to near 100,000 years.

"reliable" means that you do not have to say "probably"

In certain lake beds, there are several distinct layers of debris laid down each year. Layers such as early spring silt, late spring pollen, summer insect parts, fall leaf debris. These are called varves.

I understand varves have been calibrated well enough that we can get about 100 year resolution back to 40,000 BC. The data is available for calibration to +/- one year out to maybe 60,000 years, but that will take a lot of work.

Ok, thaks for the clarification


- FreezBee

 

[Mathematician]

Brad,

Gen. 2:4-4:26 is simply a retelling of the creation story, in more detail. Don't listen to Mathematician's other option. It takes the story completely out of context. There are really very few scholars who will even consider that this is two seperate creations. Most just laugh it off.

Think of it this way; there was no sin before Adam and Eve. If there was no sin, then there was no death. Death didn't exist before the fall. There could not have been a proto-Adam and Eve, unless you destroy the Gospel.

Don't listen to Breetai.

Think of it this way. Breetai thinks Adam = man. Paul said Adam was the first Adam and Christ was the last Adam (I Cor. 15:45). If Breetai is right, Christ is the last man. What is Breetai? Since it's settled that Christ was not the last man, it's a stretch by Breetai to assume that Adam was the first man.

Besides that, Breetai's view turns squashing a bug a into a moral dilemma.

 

[Breetai]

Brad,



Don't listen to Breetai.

Yeah, I had that coming.

Think of it this way. Breetai thinks Adam = man.

Well, yeah.

Paul said Adam was the first Adam and Christ was the last Adam (I Cor. 15:45).

Paul is making a comparison between Christ and Adam. Adam was the first of our kind. He was made in the image of God, and set the stage for all humans to follow. Then he sinned, and sin was passed down though all generations. We are sinners because of the first Adam. Christ, on the other hand, was the first (and unique) of His kind. He set the stage for man to follow, and life passed down from Him to all generations. We now have life because of Christ.

If Breetai is right, Christ is the last man.

That's just silly, as well as poor hermaneutics.

What is Breetai?

It's a poor eisegesis of the text on your part.

Since it's settled that Christ was not the last man, it's a stretch by Breetai to assume that Adam was the first man.

That's not even a sound argument. I don't see any need to comment on it.

Besides that, Breetai's view turns squashing a bug a into a moral dilemma.

That's crazy.

Did Noah not eat mean? Did Moses not eat mean? Did Jesus not eat meat?

I feel no need to argue this further.

 

[mark kennedy]

I just began reading my one year Bible and I am having some trouble with the early chapters of Genesis. Here is the schedule:
Creation
Day 1 - Light and darkness
Day 2 - Separated heavens from earth
Day 3 - Separated earth and sea / Created plant life
Day 4 - Sun/Moon Seasons
Day 5 - Fish and birds
Day 6 - Cattle, creatures, Man & Woman
Day 7 - Rest

I know there is a lot of debate as to weather this was done is 7 days as we know them or in God's time. My assumption is that this must be on a time line other than 24 hours, particularly considering that there was no sun and moon till the forth day.

[BIBLE]Isaiah 45:18[/BIBLE]

The fact that the term 'day' (Yom in the Hebrew) is prefaced by ''And there was evening, and there was morning-the first day" (Genesis 1:5). This indicates that this is a regular day with evening and morning. The creation is described from the perspective of the face of the earth where darkness was upon the face of the deep. It does not say that God created the sun on the fourth day but, 'Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to seperate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to make seasons and days and years' (1:14). God created the heavens and the earth (including the sun and stars) in 1:1, later he let the light of the sun shine upon the face of the earth. Some will give you the interprutation that the sun was not formed until the 4th day but the literary style suggests that the darkness was broken by the light of the sun.

Gen. 2:19 - Out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them.
According to previous scripture, birds of the air had already been created.

The New International Version Translates it this way:

"Now the Lord had formed out of the ground all the beasts of the field and all the birds of the air..." (1:19a)

What happens here is the entire creation account is given in the first chapter and God zooms in on one specific event of creation in the second. The entire creation account of creation is concluded in the first few verses of chapter 2, then the account of Adam and Eve is given.

Gen. 2:21 - God creates woman from man for the first time. At this point, there was no other woman. According to previous scripture, this had to have happened on the 6th day, as it indicates that God created man and woman on the 6th day. (see Gen. 1:27 man & woman created on the 6th day, and it was very good) ok fine, next…

This is two accounts of the same event, one gereral and the other more details are given.

Gen. 3:15 - God is talking to the snake, which by the way, I have still yet to hear him identify the snake as Satin. (is that assumed?) What does it mean were scripture reads "He shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise His heel." The He/His is capitalized so this is a reference to God isn't it? Anyway, this isn't so much a question on creation as it is something that didn't make sense to me. Back to my primary points of confusion now

[BIBLE]Revelation 20:2[/BIBLE]

The word for serpent means 'shining one', this is probably related to Satan being described as appearing as an angel of light. This is another use of the word serpent from Isaiah 27:1.

[BIBLE]Isaiah 27:1[/BIBLE]

Any thoughts or answers are certainly appreciated.

There was a considerable time span between the expulsion from the garden and the account of Cain and Abel. Adam was 130 years old when he had Seth. Seth came after Abel had died which means Adam and Eve had 130 years to have children and those children where probably having children by this time. BTW, the prohibition against incest came much later and it, no doubt, did not have the terrible effects it does now.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[Mathematician]

The fact that the term 'day' (Yom in the Hebrew) is prefaced by ''And there was evening, and there was morning-the first day" (Genesis 1:5). This indicates that this is a regular day with evening and morning.

No it doesn't. The Hebrew is "evening and morning." I can only find two other places where the Hebrew says "evening and morning." Ps. 55:17 and Dan. 8:26. Both of these clearly indicate long periods of time.

In addition, Genesis 2:4, indicates that Gen. 1 took an extremely long time.

 

[MatthewDiscipleofGod]

No it doesn't. The Hebrew is "evening and morning." I can only find two other places where the Hebrew says "evening and morning." Ps. 55:17 and Dan. 8:26. Both of these clearly indicate long periods of time.

In addition, Genesis 2:4, indicates that Gen. 1 took an extremely long time.

The word yom isn't used in those verses so that doesn't help your case. Also your not addressing that the days are numbered as well in Genesis. Not only are those things problems for people that thing day is longer then a normal day you have to consider other problems that would occur if those days were really ages. For example, you have no sun for plant life for ages if days are really ages. Also you don't have insects to pollinate the plants for ages if the days are really ages. Etc etc.

 

[MatthewDiscipleofGod]

I just began reading my one year Bible and I am having some trouble with the early chapters of Genesis. Here is the schedule:
Creation
Day 1 - Light and darkness
Day 2 - Separated heavens from earth
Day 3 - Separated earth and sea / Created plant life
Day 4 - Sun/Moon Seasons
Day 5 - Fish and birds
Day 6 - Cattle, creatures, Man & Woman
Day 7 - Rest

I know there is a lot of debate as to weather this was done is 7 days as we know them or in God's time. My assumption is that this must be on a time line other than 24 hours, particularly considering that there was no sun and moon till the forth day.

God could have easily created light on day 1 that was NOT the sun, moon or stars we have today. I think we put God in a box if we think otherwise. I believe it was not until day 4 that he created the sun, moon and stars. Then at that time this other light was not needed. We can only speculate though what the light was on day 1 that God created.

As for your other questions there are some great free books by Answers In Genesis. You can read them here. I suggest reading the The Answers Book first.

 

[no1nose]

I know there is a lot of debate as to weather this was done is 7 days as we know them or in God's time. My assumption is that this must be on a time line other than 24 hours, particularly considering that there was no sun and moon till the forth day.

Remeber 2 Peter 3:18 . . . a day as a thousand years.

If the world is 6000 years old that works out to almost 2 billion years if each day is a thousand years.

You may have heard of the twins experiment. One twin goes off in a rocket traveling near the speed of light and when he returns he has only aged two years where as everyone on earth has aged twenty years. The question is how old is the matter that makes up the first twin? Is it twenty year younger than the matter of the second twin?


Now let’s say that the second twin is jealous and goes off in another rocket that is even faster. When he comes back he has only aged one year but the other twin has aged 40 years. So now how old is the matter that makes up the twins and how old is the matter that makes up the earth?



The point here is that time is something that we cannot base an argument on.

 

[Breetai]

If the world is 6000 years old that works out to almost 2 billion years if each day is a thousand years.

That doesn't make any sence. You've taken that verse out of context.

 

[no1nose]

That doesn't make any sence. You've taken that verse out of context.

I’m not sure why you would say that. In referring to the Lord’s return Peter is pointing out a general truth- perhaps an early statement of realitivity. So we assume this to be true in all cases.

 

[Breetai]

Those verses (2 Peter 3:8 (not verse 18, as you said); Psalm 90:4), do not necessarily make one day equal to 1000 years, or vice versa. Peter, in the next verse, goes on to say that God is not slow in doing things, in His eyes. 1000 years is as a day is meant to be figuative. That's clear. God likes to do things in His own time, not ours.

When I read your post, I took you as saying that the world is 2 billion years old (based on 1 day= 1000 years). Maybe I didn't understand what you were saying.

 

[mark kennedy]

No it doesn't. The Hebrew is "evening and morning." I can only find two other places where the Hebrew says "evening and morning." Ps. 55:17 and Dan. 8:26. Both of these clearly indicate long periods of time.

In addition, Genesis 2:4, indicates that Gen. 1 took an extremely long time.

(Exodus 18:13) "And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses sat to judge the people: and the people stood by Moses from the morning unto the evening. "​

It means all day long.

(Lev. 27:21) "In the tabernacle of the congregation without the vail, which is before the testimony, Aaron and his sons shall order it from evening to morning before the LORD: it shall be a statute for ever unto their generations on the behalf of the children of Israel. "​

It means all night long.

(Lev. 24:3)"Without the vail of the testimony, in the tabernacle of the congregation, shall Aaron order it from the evening unto the morning before the LORD continually: it shall be a statute for ever in your generations."​

Again, it means all night long.

(Dan. 8:14) "And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed. "​

This is predictive prophecy that added up the literal days until the Sanctuary was dedicated.

[BIBLE]Daniel 8:26[/BIBLE]

Evenings and mornings are singular in the original but they clearly refer to the counting of mulitple days. That is why modern translations make it plural, not because it is indefinate but because there are a prescribed number of literal days.

(Lev. 6:20)"This is the offering of Aaron and of his sons, which they shall offer unto the LORD in the day when he is anointed; the tenth part of an ephah of fine flour for a meat offering perpetual, half of it in the morning, and half thereof at night."​

This means on the precribed literal day you offer half in the morning and half in the evening.

(Numbers 9:15) "And on the day that the tabernacle was reared up the cloud covered the tabernacle, namely, the tent of the testimony: and at even there was upon the tabernacle as it were the appearance of fire, until the morning."​

From Vines Expositors Dictionary:

The first biblical occurence of yom is found in Gen. 1:5: "And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day:. The second use introduces one of the most debated occurences of the word, which is the duration of the days of creation. Perhaps the most frequently heard explanations are that these 'days' are 24 hours long, indefinitely long (i.e. eras of time), or logical rather than temporal categories (i.e.they depict theologiical categories rather than periods of time).​

[BIBLE]Genesis 2:4[/BIBLE]

There were six days of creation after the original creation of the heavens and the earth in Genesis 1. By the way, God created the heavens and the earth in an instant, it did not take all day to do it.

Grace and peace,
Mark