Genesis - Regarding Origins

[TheScottsMen]

I noticed while looking through a bunch of profiles under this section of the forum that many of us have different views in regards to origins. Would love to hear what your view is and why. This includes if you believe in a pre-adamite race. I wonder what the most dominate view is in the Charismatic Movement? Every WOF church I have attended so far followed the Gap Theory for origins.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Gap...

The earth was created perfect and inhabitable, and then something caused it to become without form and void.

Genesis 1:1-2 KJV
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.


The word "was" is more often translated "became".
This is the "GAP".
The rest of what we read in Gen 1-3 is actually a restoration of the earth to a habitable state.

 

[cleopa_of_emmaus]

I had never heard of the "gap" theory until just now.

~cleopa

 

[Anthony]

Gap...

The earth was created perfect and inhabitable, and then something caused it to become without form and void.

Genesis 1:1-2 KJV
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.


The word "was" is more often translated "became".
This is the "GAP".
The rest of what we read in Gen 1-3 is actually a restoration of the earth to a habitable state.

Something caused? Or God simply created it that way, without form to start. God's creation was in 6 days, no rest stops along the way. He created the heavens and earth as a plain canvas earth and water, but "without form", and then proceded to add stuff to the planet; plants, animals, bugs, birds, mountains, lakes etc. And finally at the end of it all man.

Gap? Why would God create something, wait for something (what? nothing else was around) to destory it, and then finish his creation? After each subsequent day of creation, God said "and it was good", not "it's not ready I have to wait for it to cook a little more". God's creation became corrupted after Adam, before that it was perfect.

The Gap theory has been over time man's attempt to somehow reconcile secular evolution with the Bible. You can't have it both ways.

From the Bible God's creation was 6 days, not 1 day of creation and 5 days of restoration.

Restoration only became a factor, after Adam and the rest of us have mess it up. Only through God's Plan of Redemption is God/Jesus/Spirit working to restore their original creation so that the tray tables are return to their orginal up right positions before landing into Heaven.

 

[Yitzchak]

I hold to a young earth theory. My jewish backround is the reason. I figure that God entrusted the jews with his word up until the time of Christ and when Jesus came he faulted the jewish leaders for adding legalism and having hard hearts but not for their basic doctrines. The jews teach that the earth is 5764 years old.
I would not rule out a "gap theory" as impossible but to my thinking it is speculation which is extra biblical.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Something caused? Or God simply created it that way, without form to start. God's creation was in 6 days, no rest stops along the way.

Good observation and question.

Consider this Isaiah 45:18 in it's various renderings which show that the original creation state of the earth was perfect, not a waste or empty:

(ASV) For thus saith Jehovah that created the heavens, the God that formed the earth and made it, that established it and created it not a waste, that formed it to be inhabited: I am Jehovah; and there is none else.
(BBE) For this is the word of the Lord who made the heavens; he is God; the maker and designer of the earth; who made it not to be a waste, but as a living-place for man: I am the Lord, and there is no other.

(Brenton) Thus saith the Lord that made the heaven, this God that created the earth, and made it; he marked it out, he made it not in vain, but formed it to be inhabited: I am the Lord, and there is none beside.

(CEV) The LORD alone is God! He created the heavens and made a world where people can live, instead of creating an empty desert. The LORD alone is God; there are no others.

(Darby) For thus saith Jehovah who created the heavens, God himself who formed the earth and made it, he who established it, --not as waste did he create it: he formed it to be inhabited: --I am Jehovah, and there is none else.

(DRB) For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens, God himself that formed the earth, and made it, the very maker thereof: he did not create it in vain: he formed it to be inhabited. I am the Lord, and there is no other.

(GNB) The LORD created the heavens--- he is the one who is God! He formed and made the earth--- he made it firm and lasting. He did not make it a desolate waste, but a place for people to live. It is he who says, "I am the LORD, and there is no other god.

(GW) The LORD created the heavens. God formed the earth and made it. He set it up. He did not create it to be empty but formed it to be inhabited. This is what the LORD says: I am the LORD, and there is no other.

(HNV) For thus says the LORD who created the heavens, the God who formed the earth and made it, who established it and didn't create it a waste, who formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is no one else.

(LITV) For so says Jehovah, Creator of the heavens; He is God, forming the earth and making it; He makes it stand, not creating it empty, but forming it to be lived in. I am Jehovah, and there is none else.

(MKJV) For so says Jehovah the Creator of the heavens, He is God, forming the earth and making it; He makes it stand, not creating it empty, but forming it to be inhabited. I am Jehovah, and there is no other.

(NASB) For thus says the LORD, who created the heavens (He is the God who formed the earth and made it, He established it and did not create it a waste place, but formed it to be inhabited), "I am the LORD, and there is none else.

(WEB) For thus says Yahweh who created the heavens, the God who formed the earth and made it, who established it and didn't create it a waste, who formed it to be inhabited: I am Yahweh; and there is no one else.

(Webster) For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

(YLT) For thus said Jehovah, Creator of heaven, He is God, Former of earth, and its Maker, He established it--not empty He prepared it, For inhabiting He formed it: `I am Jehovah, and there is none else.

He created the heavens and earth as a plain canvas earth and water, but "without form", and then proceded to add stuff to the planet; plants, animals, bugs, birds, mountains, lakes etc. And finally at the end of it all man.

As above.... it says He did not create it an empty canvas, rather He created it complete and ready to be inhabited.

Gap? Why would God create something, wait for something (what? nothing else was around) to destory it, and then finish his creation?

He really did not wait. He created it, and there was a "pred-adamic" race that florished on the earth that was likely ruled over by Lucifer who had not yet fallen. When he fell, the wrath of God changed the earth into the "without form and void" state we see in Gen 1:2.

After each subsequent day of creation, God said "and it was good", not "it's not ready I have to wait for it to cook a little more". God's creation became corrupted after Adam, before that it was perfect.

I notice satan was in the garden before Adam and eve showed up? When did he fall?

 

[Anthony]

As above.... it says He did not create it an empty canvas, rather He created it complete and ready to be inhabited.



He really did not wait. He created it, and there was a "pred-adamic" race that florished on the earth that was likely ruled over by Lucifer who had not yet fallen. When he fell, the wrath of God changed the earth into the "without form and void" state we see in Gen 1:2.


I notice satan was in the garden before Adam and eve showed up? When did he fall?

Genesis decribes a process of creation and it's pieces, Isaiah is describing the overall process in just a few sentences. The only pause in God creative process was on day 7; and after that he was done

"Pre-Adam" Race, this would make Adam and Eve not the first man and women but what the 1,055th and 1,556th? If there was a so-call "pre-adam" race that was part of the creative process why would they fail to mention it. After all the Bible goes into extreme care in including the name of every other Tom, Dick and Harry in the genealogy; why exclude them. Reason . . .they never existed in the first place.

Pre-Adam race is an attempt at rationalization the Ape-to-Man stuff. That God is somehow tinkerbell and he magically chose the 1,056th man to be Adam. That Adam was just one many in a genealogy chain, that got pick to be the offical licensed Adam? No women until, what afterwards? Was there a "Pre-Eve" race of women. Was Eve likewise just one of the many Eve clones, and God picked one to be the offical licensed Eve? Then how does this reconcile with God creating Eve out of rib of Adam?

Once man wander off what is written, and gets overly creative to explain secular theories he eventually gets himself stuck in a hole.

"Do not go beyond what is written." - 1 CO 4:6

As far as Satan and his whereabout during this time; this doesn't add any evidence to a gap theory or that there where pre-adam men and women. When did he fall? separate question and discussion.

 

[Victorian Rose]

I am a WOFer and my pastors teach young earth creation and that's what I believe.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Pre-Adam race is an attempt at rationalization the Ape-to-Man stuff. That God is somehow tinkerbell and he magically chose the 1,056th man to be Adam. .

I don't know anything about that...
thanks for the discussion...
It is really not worth getting upset about.

If anyone want a peaceful discussion about it, PM me.

Peace
Dids

 

[Anthony]

It is really not worth getting upset about.

Dids

Sorry if the discussion was upsetting.

Just wanted to challenge the invention of the Pre-Adam man.

 

[TheScottsMen]

Depends again on your view of Genesis. The Gap Theory contends that there was nations before Adam.

We read in Gen 1:2 "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of deep"

The Word "void" - bohuw; from an unused root (meaning to be empty); a vacuity, i.e. (superficially) an undistinguishable RUIN :- emptiness, void

With out form: from an unused root meaning to lie waste; a desolation (of surface), i.e. desert; figurative a worthless thing; adverbial in vain :- confusion, empty place, without form, nothing, vain, waste, wilderness

--
Now that doesn't sound like something God would make. In the beginning God created the heavens and earth. What happened to cause it to become waste? Did God make it waste? Not if we believe scripture.

Isa 45:18 "For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, He created it NOT in vain, he formed it to be INHABITED;"

Doesn't sound like the earth we are looking at in Gen 1:2

Will make sure to comment more on this when I get back home (at work again! urgh!)To make it short, the earth was created perfect, Lucifer rebelled, the nations and the earth was laid to waste. Christ even seen Lucifer fall from the sky as stated in the Gospels. Isaiah talks about this fall.

Isa 14:12-14 "how art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, whcih didst weaken THE NATIONS! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I wil exalt my throne above the stars of God; I wil sit also upon teh mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend abvoe the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High"

Gen 1:2 goes on to talk about the re-creation of the world to its 2'nd sinless era. Adam fell, earth again fell into sin. One day it will again be perfect as it was ment to be. Third times a charm

 

[TheScottsMen]

Oh heck! I have a few more mins! But I'll get back to the gap theory later! For Young earth theorists, where do dinosaurs come in? Hope your not going to lead me to Job 41:1 or 40:15 and say thats something from Jurassic park I've also heard it said that many young earth creationist believe that God created the earth with the appearance of age. That he placed fossils in the ground and fashioned geological formations to appear ancient. This looks to me like an unsavory flavor of deception, as if God were trying to "fool" men into believing that the earth is indeed millions of yeras old. This idea of a deceiving God clearly contradicts scripture. The Apostle Paul states that

"the invisible things of him from creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse" (Rom 1:20)

One thing last before I "continue" with work. Why do we see light from stars that are millions of light-years away? If the universe was created only 6,000 years ago, light from distance stars WOULD NOT reach our planet for millions of years yet! But again, I'm willing to bet a young earth follower would say that the speed of light has not always been a constant. That Einstein's theory of Relativity is wrong. Again, comes down to a God who would put deception in his creation. Also heard it said that radiocarbon dating systems levels of decay have fluctuated, or that radioactive isotopes formed as a byproduct. Again, creation of deception.

Alright, now thats off my head I can work! Looking forward to debating

 

[Puff Father]

Hmmm, was the first fallen word redeemed or condemmed? If redeemed, how so? Just thinking out loud as I've never seen that re-creation, 2nd sinless era thing before.

I really don't know if the gap is there or not. I think that, just as a thousand years is not a long time to God, a day is not a short time. He could have done all this and more in six days. I guess we'll not find out til we meet on the other shore, eh?

PTL

 

[TheScottsMen]

On a side note: Not all GAP holders follow the rule of thumb of an ape man. Those that do, do not say that we came from them! We were created by God! They just say they exisited. But IMO, If the world that then was (2 peter 3:3-7) had nations, can you see nations of ape men? Maybe I should go back and watch Planet of the Apes again Though, all things are possible for God.

 

[TheScottsMen]

Alright, see if I can get this typed out before i'm done with work.

1. God in the eternal past (Ps 90:2, Mic 5:2, Heb 9-14)

2. The drafting of God's plan (Heb 1:3, 11:3, Eph 3:11; 1 Peter 1:20)

3. Creation of the heavens, including the sun, moon, and stars (Gen 1:1; Col 1:15- 18; Ps 8:3; 90:2; 95:5; Isa 40:12; 26; 48:13)

4. Creation of the spirit world ( Job 38:4-7; Col 1:15-18)

5. Creation of the earth. the earth made perfect for the first time ( Gen 1:1; Job 38:47; Isa 45:18; Heb 11:3)

6. Creation of "the world' [kosmos, social order] that then was" (2 peter 3:5-9; Isa 14:12-14; 45:18; Jer 4:23-26; ezek 28:11-17)

7. Lucifer's reign over "the world that then was" ( Isa 14:12-14; Jer 4:23-26; ezek 28:11-17; Col 1:15-18) How long? Unknown.

8. Other thrones, dominions principalities and powers placed over other parts of the universe ( Col 1:15-18; Eph 1:21; 3:10; 1 Peter 3:22)

9. The Kingdom of God universal; God the Supreme Moral Governor of the universe, and all in harmony with him (Job 38; dan 4:17, 25, 32, 35) How long? Unknown!

10. Lucifer, teh original ruler of the planet earth, conceives teh idea that he can get the cooperation of the other angelic beings of the universe, detrhone god, and become the exalted supreme ruler of the universe ( isa 14:12-14; ezek 28:11-17; 1 Tim 3:6)

11. Lucifer carries out his plans and through pride falls and forments rebellion by slander and accusations against the Almighty. He causes his own earth-kingdom subjects and over 1/3 of gods Angels (Rev 12:7-12) to rebel against Him. The Earth enters its first sinful career (Isa 14:12-14; Ezek 28:11-17; 1 Tim 3;6) The legenth is unknown.

12. Lucifer insteigates rebellion and persuades everyone possible to rebel. he openly breaks relations with God and His government, and leads his rebels from teh appointed place of mobilization on earth into heaven to dethrone God; but he is met by Michael and teh faithful angels, and is defeated and cast as lightning back to the Earth (Isa 14:12-14; ezek 28:11-17; Lk 10:18)

13. God completely destroys Lucifer's kingdom on earth, and curses the EArth by destroying every bird, animal, fish, city, inhabitant, and all vegetation. He then turns the world upside down and by means of a great flood makes it empty and a waste (Gen 1;2; Ps 104:5-9; Isa 14:12-14; Jer 4:23-26; ezek 28:11-17; 2 Peter 3:5-9)

14. The Spirit of god begins to move upon the flooded earth and in the darkness which covered teh waters to restore the earth to a habitable state, and to create new land animals, fish, fowls, vegation, and Adam as the new ruler of the earth (Gen 1:2 Ps 104:6-9). Length? SIX DAYS.

The rest is history.

 

[Trish1947]

Here is a view that I hope is not heretic in nature. Ever since I was a child I saw two creations in the Bible.

Exodus Chapter 1 God creates everything, encluding a man to take dominion over everything God has created outside the Garden. He made them male and female. This man is "made". He is not a living soul. But he's told what he can eat, he's told to subdue the whole earth.

Then God rests on the 7th day.
Then there can be a huge time laps between the next creation, as we see in Exodus Chapter 2:

Then in Chapter 2 we see that God said after He had already Rested, there was no man to till the gound, make things grow, prosper, a man after Gods Spirit. Then he reaches down into the dust of the ground Gen. 2:7, And the Lord God "formed" man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul. (implies that he was something else before, not a spiritual being) This man was placed in the Garden, (not told to subdue the earth.) To have fellowship with God. Adam.

One race is just made by God, to subdue the earth. Adam is a living soul created after Gods Spirit, and placed in a Garden. There can be many eons of time pass between the men that we're told to subdue the whole earth, and the time of Adams creation and placed in the Garden.

Everyone assumes that God was done after the 7th day, well basic creation was done, But God is still working and creating, and if you will notice in Chapter 2 after God rested, that it hadn't even rained on the earth yet. So God caused a mist to come up on the earth and water everything, then it tells about the creation of Adam and Eve.

Ergo, Where Cain got his wife, after the explusion.

 

[Anthony]

From "void" we jump over a "gap" and get a whole "race" of pre-Adam men and women?

Now that's reaching. With that kind of thinking I would have to go with the Mormons, they've got some pretty nice contect-the-dots, sort of theories as well. The Mormons have it all figure out.

Hmm, for me I'll stick with the way the Bible was written.

 

[TheScottsMen]

Anthony:
Pick on the void part all you want I posted enough scriptures to support my position. As for you?

 

[Anthony]

Anthony:
Pick on the void part all you want I posted enough scriptures to support my position. As for you?

support or create a postion?

Each Day of creation had a morning and an evening.

 

[Trish1947]

From "void" we jump over a "gap" and get a whole "race" of pre-Adam men and women?

Now that's reaching. With that kind of thinking I would have to go with the Mormons, they've got some pretty nice contect-the-dots, sort of theories as well. The Mormons have it all figure out.

Hmm, for me I'll stick with the way the Bible was written.

Everything I posted I got from the Bible. but there's one thing about it.. Everyone see's something different. I was just posting what I have always seen. If I'm wrong, which I'm willing to admit to, but as of yet, I still see it the same way..