Genesis Is the understanding the of Ancient Hebrews.It doesn't have to be scientific.

[RDKirk]

That doesn't change the fact that the Scriptures were inspired by the same God, that Jesus quoted from them frequently, and that He said man couldn't live on bread alone, but by every word that came from the mouth of God. Presumably, he meant the Scriptures, which confirms they came from God. Regardless of your level of understanding about the world, God was specific in describing its creation by His hand.

Actually Jesus repudiated virtually everything they thought they understood at that time about God from scriptures.

And when you look back at what God was doing with slavery in the Mosaic Law--similar to what He was doing with divorce--you see that slavery was always wrong in God's eyes--He never created anyone to be a slave, God created no "slave class" such as the ancient Greeks and Romans believed--but as with divorce, people were just too darned ornery.

 

[dougangel]

Agreed and agreed.



What? Certainly the ancient, prescientific understanding in Genesis 'authenticates' that it is a document written by an ancient, prescientific culture, but I don't think anyone ever disagreed with that. What people want, of course, is an authentication that the text somehow tells us something true about the divine. I don't see how imperfections in the bible authenticate that.

Gilgamesh and the Iliad are also authenticated ancient, prescientific writings of ancient, prescientific cultures, but we don't think they tell us anything in particular about the divine.

Nice. A decent intelligent answer and argument.
Well It authenticates them as an ancient culture searching for God and there not perfect. There human they made mistakes.

 

[KWCrazy]

The Bible says that you could beat a slave (as long as he does not die as a result).

No it doesn't.
It states that if someone beats their slave and the slave dies they will be punished. They can't be punished for beating the slave under the law because they are legal owner. That doesn't say that it is accepted or ordained in God's eyes. It gives permission for nothing.

 

[lesliedellow]

It doesn't have to be scientific, period. Unless somebody tries to force it into that role, which is exactly what creationists try to do.

 

[Black Dog]

Agreed But they can teach Morales and spiritual truths and about the human condition

Certainly.

 

[RDKirk]

It doesn't have to be scientific, period. Unless somebody tries to force it into that role, which is exactly what creationists try to do.

Yes. There is a difference source for scientific information:

The heavens declare the glory of God,
and the sky proclaims the work of His hands.

Day after day they pour out speech;
night after night they communicate knowledge.

There is no speech; there are no words;
their voice is not heard.

Their message has gone out to all the earth,
and their words to the ends of the world. -- Psalm 19

 

[dougangel]

Likewise, you can't equate your definition of slavery based on recent history. The Bible is a chronology of human events, and some people have always worked for other people; be it as sharecroppers, servants, serfs, foot soldiers etc. This does not constitute an excuse for the mistreatment of others. Indeed, the Pharaoh paid dearly for the mistreatment of the Jews when they were slaves. God is the wellspring of life. The evil that men do is on them, not God.

Luke 10:7 Stay there, eating and drinking whatever they give you, for the worker deserves his wages. Do not move around from house to house.

I believe this is a New testament principle. Every worker deservers his wages. Therefore overriding what the Old testament says about slavery.

But I'm concerned about you. Are you free to leave if you want too ?

 

[Larniavc]

No it doesn't.
It states that if someone beats their slave and the slave dies they will be punished. They can't be punished for beating the slave under the law because they are legal owner. That doesn't say that it is accepted or ordained in God's eyes. It gives permission for nothing.

The Bible says that you cannot be punished for beating a slavebecause they are own. This is in no way similar to to being employed.

I'm confused: why would a Christian be defending the institution of Biblical slavery?

Have I misinterpreted your position?

 

[In situ]

Genesis is the understanding of God by the ancient Hebrews. [etc etc etc]

Please read this forums guide lines before posting...

 

[dougangel]

Please read this forum guide lines before posting....

please explain why ?

 

[In situ]

please explain why ?

Your OP is not in accordance to the guide lines of this forum. This is a forum about life science, not religion nor your bible. There are dedicated forum to discuss the issue you raised in your OP, but this is not one of them. So please read it before making any more posts.

 

[In situ]

please explain why ?

"The Creation & Evolution Forum is a discussion and debate forum and is open to non-believers to address the similarities and differences of creation and evolution. [...]

Discussions here should be on the nature of creation and evolution"

 

[dougangel]

Your OP is not in accordance to the guide lines of this forum. This is a forum about life science, not religion nor your bible. So please read it before making any more posts.

What on earth ?
I've been trying to discuss science roll in Genesis. Which deals with creation. Other people have been bringing other stuff into it. But I have tried to answer them. This is happing in a lot of posts in here. have I missed something creation is about the bible ?

 

[ecco]

A New Covenant Hebrews 8:

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.

In keeping to the spirit of a prior post:"The Creation & Evolution Forum is a discussion and debate forum and is open to non-believers to address the similarities and differences of creation and evolution. [...]...

There seem to be many things in the OT that Christians want to disregard and use the passages like Hebrews 8:7 to justify that. Yet in some other threads in the Creation & Evolution section there is a poster who believes that changes and advancements in scientific knowledge just show that science is unreliable. He asserts that since there were some things that Darwin got wrong, evolution must be wrong. I haven't seen too many, (any?) Christians criticizing his views. However, here we see Christians saying truth in the NT is truth, even though truth in the OT may not have been truth.

In your life has your understanding of God been the same or has it changed ?

Since you asked...Early in my life I had heard about god and pretty quickly put him into the same category as Santa and the Easter Bunny. Nothing has ever indicated I made the wrong decision. Certainly things like the above only serve to substantiate my beliefs.

 

[dougangel]

In keeping to the spirit of a prior post:"The Creation & Evolution Forum is a discussion and debate forum and is open to non-believers to address the similarities and differences of creation and evolution. [...]...

There seem to be many things in the OT that Christians want to disregard and use the passages like Hebrews 8:7 to justify that. Yet in some other threads in the Creation & Evolution section there is a poster who believes that changes and advancements in scientific knowledge just show that science is unreliable. He asserts that since there were some things that Darwin got wrong, evolution must be wrong. I haven't seen too many, (any?) Christians criticizing his views. However, here we see Christians saying truth in the NT is truth, even though truth in the OT may not have been truth.



Since you asked...Early in my life I had heard about god and pretty quickly put him into the same category as Santa and the Easter Bunny. Nothing has ever indicated I made the wrong decision. Certainly things like the above only serve to substantiate my beliefs.

Good post This is going to take me a while. cheers

 

[RDKirk]

Luke 10:7 Stay there, eating and drinking whatever they give you, for the worker deserves his wages. Do not move around from house to house.

I believe this is a New testament principle. Every worker deservers his wages. Therefore overriding what the Old testament says about slavery.

But I'm concerned about you. Are you free to leave if you want too ?

That passage from Luke was actually a reference to the OT law:

Pay them their wages each day before sunset, because they are poor and are counting on it. Otherwise they may cry to the LORD against you, and you will be guilty of sin -- Deuteronomy 24

While there is a lot that does override slavery in the NT, most direct and critical is this:

And masters, treat your slaves the same way, without threatening them, because you know that both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with Him. -- Ephesians 6.

A slaveowner considered the slaves his private property that he could treat as he wished, held accountable to nobody for their treatment. This verse says that both of them are actually slaves of the Lord, who does not hold one more important than the other. Thus in Christ, the "slave" is no longer the property of the "master," but is now his responsibility.

 

[dougangel]

We'd better have that same understanding too, or we're not going to be able to worship Him correctly

In keeping to the spirit of a prior post:"The Creation & Evolution Forum is a discussion and debate forum and is open to non-believers to address the similarities and differences of creation and evolution. [...]...
Lets get this straight. On this Forum Anybody can say anything. Christian or Non Christian. There's evidence of that in this post lol. You have check what there saying is correct.
There seem to be many things in the OT that Christians want to disregard and use the passages like Hebrews 8:7 to justify that. Yet in some other threads in the Creation & Evolution section there is a poster who believes that changes and advancements in scientific knowledge just show that science is unreliable. He asserts that since there were some things that Darwin got wrong, evolution must be wrong. I haven't seen too many, (any?) Christians criticizing his views. However, here we see Christians saying truth in the NT is truth, even though truth in the OT may not have been truth.
I think it's fair to say Evolution has evolved as a science and a lot of it is unobserved and it's not a complete science. I actually think it could be plausible and can be a explanation how God designed things. God got man from dust. then added his spirit to man. It doesn't say how long this took. Evolution theory says dust, plants, fish, animals, man. (crude list )
I think there similar.
If mans awareness of the Evolutionary scientific world needed to develop. Why can't ancient Hebrew mans understanding of the environmental world need to develop. And the creation part of Genesis really be about spiritual truths. (God created, In the beginning, There's a spiritual nature to man. There's error and sin in the world, the Hebrew making of a 7 day week to name a few examples)

However, here we see Christians saying truth in the NT is truth, even though truth in the OT may not have been truth.
I wouldn't say there's a new truth. But a new deal or a new promise. The old testament was the promise for the ancient Hebrews understanding of God but now there's a new promise of Christs for people born AD. Could get you a lot more scripture on that But we might need to shift to apologetics.

Since you asked...Early in my life I had heard about god and pretty quickly put him into the same category as Santa and the Easter Bunny. Nothing has ever indicated I made the wrong decision. Certainly things like the above only serve to substantiate my beliefs.

I asked AV1611VET That because I said Genesis is the understanding of God by the ancient Hebrews.

"""We'd better have that same understanding too, or we're not going to be able to worship Him correctly."""

I disagree that we should have the same understanding of an Ancient Hebrew. Where modern Christians. We have a lot more scripture at our disposal and a new promise. Av1611vet is a YEC literalist fundamental Christian. We have quite different interpretations of the bible.

 

[Black Dog]

No it doesn't.
It states that if someone beats their slave and the slave dies they will be punished.

Not if the slave lives for a day or two

They can't be punished for beating the slave under the law because they are legal owner. That doesn't say that it is accepted or ordained in God's eyes. It gives permission for nothing.

This makes it sound like God gave the old "Nudge nudge, wink wink" to slavery. Surely God would have said "No Slavery" if that was what he believed. He didn't seem to have any problems outlawing a lot of other less morally contentious issues, such as wearing mixed blend clothing or eating seafood.

 

[dougangel]

That passage from Luke was actually a reference to the OT law:

Pay them their wages each day before sunset, because they are poor and are counting on it. Otherwise they may cry to the LORD against you, and you will be guilty of sin -- Deuteronomy 24

While there is a lot that does override slavery in the NT, most direct and critical is this:

And masters, treat your slaves the same way, without threatening them, because you know that both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with Him. -- Ephesians 6.

A slaveowner considered the slaves his private property that he could treat as he wished, held accountable to nobody for their treatment. This verse says that both of them are actually slaves of the Lord, who does not hold one more important than the other. Thus in Christ, the "slave" is no longer the property of the "master," but is now his responsibility.

1 Timothy 5:18
For Scripture says, “Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain,” and “The worker deserves his wages.”

Well Jesus said it in Luke and it's also here. Therefore I think it's a NT principal

Well your getting into some pretty heavy stuff there and I wished you hadn't for that guy who said he was a slave.
The whole ancient world was running on slaves. Paul said this because of the Romans and the times he was living In. I don't think a modern Christian should accept being a slave.

 

[-57]

Genesis is the understanding of God by the ancient Hebrews. It's there oral tradition handed down and finally made into a book by Moses and his advisors. It's ancient man's understanding of God and the building of a religion. It does look like some of the early stories are taken from Sumerian and Egyptians sources adding Hebrew philosophy to them. Abraham was a Sumerian. They were building there understanding of God and not all of it is perfect or explainable. It evolved from out door animal sacrifices to a tent temple to a building temple. The Hebrews weren't perfect and there understanding of God at times isn't perfect. But at the time in the known world they recognised more of the truth of God. So God revealed himself more to them and of course this brought the saviour Jesus through them. Knowing that the bible isn't perfect, doesn't take away the bible but authenticates it.

You had said in your post " Knowing that the bible isn't perfect, doesn't take away the bible but authenticates it"
....does this mean "Christians" don't have to recognize the resurrection of Jesus Christ as a literal historical event? Knowing that the bible isn't perfect as you said clearly means the resurrection can also be myth? yes?