Genesis Creation OR THIS?

[Colter]

Why does anyone believe the bible word for word?

Fear.

Fear that when they die they go to hell. The crops won't grow, the sun won't shine enough, it will rain too much, the earth will swallow them up, a family member will die, the neighbours army will come and enslave them, and so on.

It's all based on the threats for those that don't believe.

Now someone will tell me I'm going to hell, because I don't believe. I'm not scared, they are though. Or arrogant they have it right.

AllanV is right, evolution does have holes in it, holes that are being filled every day. Genesis is one big hole they refuse to fill.

Its more complicated than just fear. There were elements of truth in the speculations of the Bible books. Then, tragically there have been redactions as the scripture authors themselves lost their own faith in the transactions of the past. The greatest en-mass redactions occurred in the Babylonian captivity. The priestly authors went to the other extreme, they converted a basically ordinary secular history into a miraculous fiction.......BUT.....after returning to Jerusalem, when those new books became "scripture" it did give all of Israel the belief that a Messiah like figure was eminent. The Son of God himself did appear to them and while he was very different then their expectations this lead Christian theologians to tie it all together in one big speculative package.

"When modern man wonders at the presentation of so much in the scriptures of different religions that may be regarded as obscene, he should pause to consider that passing generations have feared to eliminate what their ancestors deemed to be holy and sacred. A great deal that one generation might look upon as obscene, preceding generations have considered a part of their accepted mores, even as approved religious rituals. A considerable amount of religious controversy has been occasioned by the never-ending attempts to reconcile olden but reprehensible practices with newly advanced reason, to find plausible theories in justification of creedal perpetuation of ancient and outworn customs." UB 1955​

 

[Givemeareason]

It might help. But it is not important.
The important one is how do YOU interpret it. And it should be constantly improving (changing). Yours might not be the best one, but it surely be the closest one.

I assume you are directing that statement at the two of us? By your description you could take your bible and crawl into a cave living there the rest of your life and gain more understanding of the bible than I can out here interacting with people over it??

 

[Givemeareason]

Me.

You and your bible are going to have to crawl out of that cave before I can hear what you are saying.

 

[Givemeareason]

What mountain? Is it a real mountain, literally, or is that a metaphor? If you're using such imagination to advance a scientific theory, how can we be sure it's nothing more than a myth you're just making up as you go? Do we not have a say-so about what we are supposed to believe, do we not get a chance to examine this mountain of evidence and draw our own conclusions accordingly, or do we just take any random science jargon that appears before us at face value because it's been endorsed by secular academics who only get paid if they tow the company line? What if we're just not as concerned with it, and are we stopping anyone from believing in it? Genesis will still be around long after the theory of evolution has been discredited by whatever the trending science happens to be. We have seen nations rise and fall, yet we still go on. Not even the gates of hell shall prevail against us, so why the exercise in futility?

You answered your first question and all that follow by asking that first question. You are unable to see the mountain.

 

[AllanV]

I will admit much of what has been said of God confuses me. That's why I am sticking with Jesus. Hopefully through my understandings of Jesus, I can better come to understand God later.

Eph 3:19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

These verses have some depth and the Christian Church doesn't understand them. If it is then there is opposition.
There is a way of entering the most Holy Place the sanctuary of God. This way is a mystery to the natural mind but the way in unfolds as a forward direction is taken without turning back.

Heb 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
Heb 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

There is much more to the bible than genesis and it suits some to tear down the message at the beginning in the quest to destroy the whole book.

It is obvious that entropy is operating but what determines the rate of decay within the system.
If a compression spring is squeezed and held the only time any power is used is in the act of compressing. The effort to hold the spring compressed is not accounted for.
Gravity acts with the mass, its density and radius but within the atom there is mostly only energy. The spring analogy is apparent and something is producing the balance and holding the tension between the atomic forces and gravity.
Every thing comes from nothing therefore what are the forces exactly.

 

[juvenissun]

I assume you are directing that statement at the two of us? By your description you could take your bible and crawl into a cave living there the rest of your life and gain more understanding of the bible than I can out here interacting with people over it??

Exaggeration, but it is one possible way if there is no better choices.
To study the Bible is NOT trying to gain knowledge, but to gain wisdom. And wisdom can not be taught.

 

[juvenissun]

You and your bible are going to have to crawl out of that cave before I can hear what you are saying.

All it takes is to ask a question.

 

[Givemeareason]

Eph 3:19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

These verses have some depth and the Christian Church doesn't understand them. If it is then there is opposition.
There is a way of entering the most Holy Place the sanctuary of God. This way is a mystery to the natural mind but the way in unfolds as a forward direction is taken without turning back.

Heb 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
Heb 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

There is much more to the bible than genesis and it suits some to tear down the message at the beginning in the quest to destroy the whole book.

It is obvious that entropy is operating but what determines the rate of decay within the system.
If a compression spring is squeezed and held the only time any power is used is in the act of compressing. The effort to hold the spring compressed is not accounted for.
Gravity acts with the mass, its density and radius but within the atom there is mostly only energy. The spring analogy is apparent and something is producing the balance and holding the tension between the atomic forces and gravity.
Every thing comes from nothing therefore what are the forces exactly.

The bible is a book that still struggles to be understood. Having been around all this time and still not being understood would seem to decrease the probability of it being understood. But at the same time humanity and technology are growing at exponential rates which might now be used to understand even the bible. The problem with Genesis is that some people are trying to use it as a science text. Indeed some would now like to destroy the bible due to the manner in which it has been misused. It is universally misunderstood by many believers and nonbelievers. When the bible is used to deny science, it is biting the hand that feeds it. Entropy, methods of storing energy, gravity, atoms and other concepts you refer to are the result of science. But the methods of science are to leave no question unanswered. It seeks and will not stop as evidenced in your own words. So we are left to ponder without always knowing where we are going. Christianity needs to latch on and go for the ride and maybe it is happening but to help provide moral guidance rather than trying to throw our knowledge behind us.

 

[Givemeareason]

Exaggeration, but it is one possible way if there is no better choices.
To study the Bible is NOT trying to gain knowledge, but to gain wisdom. And wisdom can not be taught.

I agree wisdom cannot be taught but to gain it requires good judgement something often lacking in many Christian denominations today.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

I recommend a book by Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI (written when he was a Cardinal) called 'In the Beginning…': A Catholic Understanding of the Story of Creation and the Fall

In it he deals with the objections to the Genesis creation account that are always brought up.

 

[Givemeareason]

I recommend a book by Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI (written when he was a Cardinal) called 'In the Beginning…': A Catholic Understanding of the Story of Creation and the Fall

In it he deals with the objections to the Genesis creation account that are always brought up.

I am also aware that the Catholic church sees no conflict with science. I hope that is still true.

 

[juvenissun]

I agree wisdom cannot be taught but to gain it requires good judgement something often lacking in many Christian denominations today.

I believe you underestimated them. Nobody is foolish. Everyone is as smart as you are.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Most of the evolutionary principles are shown in drawings and pictures and are a fantasy. They are made up with no basis or from collected material.

You have been misinformed. Piously misinformed, no doubt.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Colter]

I am also aware that the Catholic church sees no conflict with science. I hope that is still true.

Oddly enough the Catholic church has progressed in science more than some of the Protestant evangelicals. The Vatican has a staff of scientist that concede that the Bible isn't necessarily scientific.

 

[Givemeareason]

Oddly enough the Catholic church has progressed in science more than some of the Protestant evangelicals. The Vatican has a staff of scientist that concede that the Bible isn't necessarily scientific.

Yes I was just asking someone about that. I am informed that the astrophysicist with the Vatican has come out strongly again creationism. That's a pretty interesting observation in that she was no doubt screened by the Vatican before taking the job. I haven't looked it up to confirm it yet so please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Colter]

There were Catholic contributors to the theory of evolution before Darwin even published "On The Origin of Species". I'm not Catholic but just interested in evolution.

 

[AllanV]

You have been misinformed. Piously misinformed, no doubt.
eudaimonia,
Mark

I am not an expert in the field so videos by people who do speak out and are expert in their field are watched. Of course they are ridiculed but they present good evidence and point out obvious areas with assumptions and even misinformation applied by others.

 

[Givemeareason]

There were Catholic contributors to the theory of evolution before Darwin even published "On The Origin of Species". I'm not Catholic but just interested in evolution.

Hasn't the evolution debate always just been with the fundamentalists?

 

[AllanV]

The bible is a book that still struggles to be understood. Having been around all this time and still not being understood would seem to decrease the probability of it being understood. But at the same time humanity and technology are growing at exponential rates which might now be used to understand even the bible. The problem with Genesis is that some people are trying to use it as a science text. Indeed some would now like to destroy the bible due to the manner in which it has been misused. It is universally misunderstood by many believers and nonbelievers. When the bible is used to deny science, it is biting the hand that feeds it. Entropy, methods of storing energy, gravity, atoms and other concepts you refer to are the result of science. But the methods of science are to leave no question unanswered. It seeks and will not stop as evidenced in your own words. So we are left to ponder without always knowing where we are going. Christianity needs to latch on and go for the ride and maybe it is happening but to help provide moral guidance rather than trying to throw our knowledge behind us.

When the Bible was first read it was difficult (and it still is). A few phrases read that eternal life was possible. I was living with my wife and first baby son on some purchased land. My interest was opened up to something entirely different. There had been absolutely no interest in religion and I did not know what it was about. I now maintain that a person could go to churches all their life and not know what it is about and the real potential the Bible indicates.
The Christian Church has many different doctrines and usual psychological issues arise between the members. I could not equate what had been revealed spontaneously to me and what went on in the Christian Church.

It all began for me while working, a dream came to mind and then much information came into it while my body was increasingly energized. It was strong enough to get my attention and I couldn't breath and my legs buckled. My mind was opened up to the mind of an immortal and a comparison was seen. I was shown much and over the years there is enough information available now that confirms what occurred is a true experience.
All information gathering requires a starting point and the experience pushed a reset button.

 

[Colter]

Hasn't the evolution debate always just been with the fundamentalists?

Yea, I guess you are right. In fact biblical fundamentalism probably drives more people away from religion than anything.