The reason it refers to Eves seed in Genesis 3:15 is because God is only talking to Eve & the snake. God is not talking to Adam here. Seed always refers to descendants. I ask again, who are Satan's descendants?
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The reason it refers to Eves seed in Genesis 3:15 is because God is only talking to Eve & the snake. God is not talking to Adam here. Seed always refers to descendants. I ask again, who are Satan's descendants?The seed of Satan are those who oppose God.
31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. 33 They answered him, We be Abraham’s seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free? 34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. 35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. 36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. 37 I know that ye are Abraham’s seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you. 38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father. 39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham’s children, ye would do the works of Abraham. 40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham. 41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. 42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. 43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. 44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. 45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. 46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? 47 He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Jn 8:31–47.
In this passage, Jesus acknowledges that these Jews are the physical seed of Abraham. Yet, He also seems to question it. He says, "if you were Abraham's children." So, they were physically Abraham's children but Jesus is alluding to something else when questions it based on their actions. Abraham was a friend of God. These Jews were opposing God. Jesus brought them a message from God and they opposed him, thus they were opposing God. We see this warning from the Pharisee Gamaliel.
33 When they heard that, they were cut to the heart, and took counsel to slay them. 34 Then stood there up one in the council, a Pharisee, named Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, had in reputation among all the people, and commanded to put the apostles forth a little space; 35 And said unto them, Ye men of Israel, take heed to yourselves what ye intend to do as touching these men. 36 For before these days rose up Theudas, boasting himself to be somebody; to whom a number of men, about four hundred, joined themselves: who was slain; and all, as many as obeyed him, were scattered, and brought to nought. 37 After this man rose up Judas of Galilee in the days of the taxing, and drew away much people after him: he also perished; and all, even as many as obeyed him, were dispersed. 38 And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: 39 But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God. 40 And to him they agreed: and when they had called the apostles, and beaten them, they commanded that they should not speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go.
The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Ac 5:33–40.
Jesus says if they were really Abraham's children, they would do the deeds of Abraham. They weren't doing those deeds; they were opposing Jesus. He calls them the children of their father, the devil. They weren't the physical seed of the devil; however, their hearts were wicked like that of the devil. They were opposing God like the devil has.
29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous, 30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. 31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. 32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. 33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: 35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. 36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. 39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Mt 23:29–39.
Here Jesus shows how the Jews had repeatedly opposed God down through history. God sent prophet after prophet and the Jews tormented and killed them. Notice His reference to serpents and vipers. He' not just calling them snakes, He's calling them vipers. A viper is a venomous snake, it's poisonous and deadly. Jesus is equating these Jews with being poisonous and deadly. They claim to be representing God, but they're actually opposing Him. They did to Jesus just as they had done to the prophets.
In modern times we tend to use the word generation of those all living at the same time, ie the younger or older generation. However, here, Jesus is using it to describe a class of people. Those who are wicked. He says the blood of all of the righteous, the prophets and wise men, slain will be required of the wicked.
The seed of the woman. This is a reference to man. Satan would bruise man's heal but man would crush his head. Down through time there had been no man that could destroy Satan. However, one day there would be a man who could resist and defeat Satan. That man would be Jesus the Christ. A man who never sinned. As hard as he tried Satan could not get Jesus to sin. Unlike the rest of mankind, Satan held no sway over Him. Satan did bruise His heal, at the Crucifixion. And Jesus, crushed Satan's head, destroyed him , at the Resurrection.
17 Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them. 18 For those who are such do not serve our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly, and by smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple. 19 For your obedience has become known to all. Therefore I am glad on your behalf; but I want you to be wise in what is good, and simple concerning evil. 20 And the God of peace will crush Satan under your feet shortly.
The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.
The New King James Version (Nashville: Thomas Nelson, 1982), Ro 16:17–20.
Paul says as long as these Christians would continue in the teaching they had learned God would crush Satan under their feet. Notice the references back to Genesis 3:15. Satan being crushed under their feet and the serpent having his head crushed. Crushed and feet are referenced in both instances. I think it's pretty clear that Paul referring back to Genesis 3:15.
Jesus became the seed of the woman. Paul tells us that Jesu was in the form of God and that He emptied Himself and took on the form of man.
5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak. 6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him? 7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands: 8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him. 9 But we see Jesus, vwho was made a little lower than the angels vfor the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. 10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. 11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren, 12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee. 13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me. 14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. 16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. 17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. 18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.
The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Heb 2:5–18.
5 You should have the same attitude toward one another that Christ Jesus had, 6 who, though he existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God as something to be grasped, 7 but emptied himself by taking on the form of a slave, by looking like other men, and by sharing in human nature. 8 He humbled himself, by becoming obedient to the point of death—even death on a cross!
Biblical Studies Press, The NET Bible, Second Edition. (Denmark: Thomas Nelson, 2019), Php 2:5–8.
We can see from these passages that Jesus, the Son of God, became man so that He could destroy the works of the devil, the serpent. Satan held death over man and Jesus came as a man to destroy death and him who held it.
We are told in Scripture that Jesus was conceived by the power of God.
26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth, 27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary. 28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. 29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be. 30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. 34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? 35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. 36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren. 37 For with God nothing shall be impossible. 38 And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.[1]
[1] The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Lk 1:26–38.
Did you read the post? I explained who Satan's seed are. The word seed is singular. However, it can refer to a single seed or it can refer to multiple seeds. I have a bag of seed. The word offspring is the same. The word is singular, but it can refer to one or more. The word group is singular, but it includes multiple people. Paul explains how the Jews misunderstood the promises made to Abraham and his seed. The Jews thought they were the seed. However, Paul tells us in the Galatians 3:16 that when God made the promise it was to Abraham and his seed, not his seeds. That Seed was Christ.The reason it refers to Eves seed in Genesis 3:15 is because God is only talking to Eve & the snake. God is not talking to Adam here. Seed always refers to descendants. I ask again, who are Satan's descendants?
I agree that the original serpent in Genesis 3:1 Talked, however there is nothing to suggest it walked upright though it may have, or walked on all fours. The story is to explain why snakes have no legs & slither on the ground & why there is enmity or fear of man toward snakes. It's a simple creation myth about snakes, & also why man has to work so hard to survive, as well as why women experience painful child birth. I don't believe there is any deeper meaning than that.
The reason it refers to Eves seed in Genesis 3:15 is because God is only talking to Eve & the snake. God is not talking to Adam here. Seed always refers to descendants. I ask again, who are Satan's descendants?
The Pharisees in Our Lord Jesus' Time. Gospel according to St. John, chapter 8, verse 44. Basically all who exchange truth for a lie.The reason it refers to Eves seed in Genesis 3:15 is because God is only talking to Eve & the snake. God is not talking to Adam here. Seed always refers to descendants. I ask again, who are Satan's descendants?
Why would a person reading Genesis need the new testament or Paul to explain it to them? This was written over 1000 years before the new testament or Paul came onto the scene, so those reading it would need to understand it without the new testament. How do we know Paul isn't just making stuff up? We don't know if Paul is inspired by God by Satan, or if he is just a raving lunatic. What did Jesus himself say about the verse?Did you read the post? I explained who Satan's seed are. The word seed is singular. However, it can refer to a single seed or it can refer to multiple seeds. I have a bag of seed. The word offspring is the same. The word is singular, but it can refer to one or more. The word group is singular, but it includes multiple people. Paul explains how the Jews misunderstood the promises made to Abraham and his seed. The Jews thought they were the seed. However, Paul tells us in the Galatians 3:16 that when God made the promise it was to Abraham and his seed, not his seeds. That Seed was Christ.
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ
The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Ga 3:15–16.
The Pharisees are descendants of Eve. They are not descendants of any serpent. They believed in strict adherence to the law of Moses. I am not surprised that early Christians would clash with the Pharisees, & want to discredit them because Christians wanted to do away with the mosaic laws. Pharisees are of human descent, just like every other human. Satan is a spirit. He can not give birth to humans.The Pharisees in Our Lord Jesus' Time. Gospel according to St. John, chapter 8, verse 44. Basically all who exchange truth for a lie.
Why would the Jews be expected to believe that Jesus was the son of God? There was no prophecy of a son of God, & jesus had not, & still hasn't, fulfilled the prophecy of the messiah. There was no reason for Jews to believe he was the son of God then & still no reason to believe it now. The major prophecies of the Messiah remain unfulfilled.The reason it refers to Eves seed in Genesis 3:15 is because God is only talking to Eve & the snake. God is not talking to Adam here. Seed always refers to descendants. I ask again, who are Satan's descendants?
God is talking to Eve & the serpent, so the author of the story would expect the reader to understand that God is referring to Eve, when he says woman. I think you are reading too much into it.
Aren't YOU the one who is adding to scripture, by insisting the serpent is Satan, & that the story is predicting jesus? Aren't you being a bit hypocritical here by suggesting that I am the one who is adding to scripture, when I am referring only to the characters in the story, & you are wanting to add additional characters to the story that ren't mentioned, or even implied?
Maybe the gospels are also metaphorical. So when jesus was crucified it was actually a metaphor for the future decline of the Roman empire, & when he rose again, it was a metaphor for the rise of islam. A Muslim can easily spin it that way.nope i have not added anything ... the book of Revelation of Jesus Christ states clearly the ancient serpent is called Satan who is our adversary, deciever, accuser,tempter which the OT speaks to as well should one do a word study of the hebrew it is written in ...
you do realize Genesis is a metaphorical language or do you believe knowledge grows on a literal tree ...
Maybe the gospels are also metaphorical. So when jesus was crucified it was actually a metaphor for the future decline of the Roman empire, & when he rose again, it was a metaphor for the rise of islam. A Muslim can easily spin it that way.
And no, I don't think that the creation in Genesis is literal. It's a creation myth, but you want to spin the story about being about Christianity, when it would be just as easy to spin stories in it to be about Islam, which Islamic scholars already do.
Why would the Jews be expected to believe that Jesus was the son of God? There was no prophecy of a son of God, & jesus had not, & still hasn't, fulfilled the prophecy of the messiah. There was no reason for Jews to believe he was the son of God then & still no reason to believe it now. The major prophecies of the Messiah remain unfulfilled.
The simple answer is because God hid it in the Old Testament. The prophets didn't understand a lot of what they wrote.Why would a person reading Genesis need the new testament or Paul to explain it to them? This was written over 1000 years before the new testament or Paul came onto the scene, so those reading it would need to understand it without the new testament. How do we know Paul isn't just making stuff up? We don't know if Paul is inspired by God by Satan, or if he is just a raving lunatic. What did Jesus himself say about the verse?
How did we get from a story about a snake deceiving eve to it being about Satan & Mary? There is no logical connection there. The story is that Eve & the snake that deceived Eve will have enmity towards one another, or hate one another for the rest of their days. Both Eve & that snake are dead now. The curse was also extended to the future generations of Eve & the future generations of the snake. If the prophecy is that Jesus would crush Satan, then why are Christians claiming that Satan is still deceiving us? It's a failed prophecy if your contention is true, so Jesus is not the messiah.It is not the seed of Eve, but rather, the Seed of the Blessed Virgin Mary. The Seed Is the Messiah. The Woman whom God Has Made the Enemy of the serpent is the Mother Of the Messiah. Remember, Satan has already deceived Eve at this point. Therefore, she is not the Promised Enemy. This does not mean that Our Father Did not Forgive Eve. Just that she is not the Woman whom the serpent will eternally hate!!
Simply put, Satan used Eve to entice Adam into disobeying Our Father, and thereby bring sin into the world. So Our Father Told the serpent that He Could & Would Play that Game too. Just as the devil used a woman to bring about sin into the world, Our Father Would Use a later Woman to Bring Our Salvation (the Christ) into the world.How did we get from a story about a snake deceiving eve to it being about Satan & Mary? There is no logical connection there. The story is that Eve & the snake that deceived Eve will have enmity towards one another, or hate one another for the rest of their days. Both Eve & that snake are dead now. The curse was also extended to the future generations of Eve & the future generations of the snake. If the prophecy is that Jesus would crush Satan, then why are Christians claiming that Satan is still deceiving us? It's a failed prophecy if your contention is true, so Jesus is not the messiah.
If what you are implying is correct, then sin was already in the world with Satan. So Adam & Eve aren't to blame for sin entering the world. God allowed Satan into the garden, bringing sin with it. The best you can say is that Adam & Eve were used as playthings by God & Satan in a sick game between them, just as Job was used by God & Satan to play a game inJob. So why do Christians insist that man bought about his own downfall? God knew exactly what would happen if he allowed Satan into the garden. As I dont believe the serpent is Satan, this is the question christians have to answer. Can YOU answer it, because no Christian to date has attempted to answer the question?Simply put, Satan used Eve to entice Adam into disobeying Our Father, and thereby bring sin into the world. So Our Father Told the serpent that He Could & Would Play that Game too. Just as the devil used a woman to bring about sin into the world, Our Father Would Use a later Woman to Bring Our Salvation (the Christ) into the world.
Our Lord Jesus' Death on the Cross Crushed the head of Satan. He Paid the Price for our sins. But, Satan never gives up in trying to lead us away from Our Father.
If you read Isaih 48:17, it makes it clear that the "redeemer" is YWH. There is no mention of God having a son who will later come to redeem Israel. The redeemer is already there, to redeem Israel from Babylon.You're right. It would be difficult for anyone to interpret Jesus as being the Messiah from a simple, straightforward, literal reading of the Old Testament. It would be especially difficult if that same reading came without any additional divine evidence or further prophetic hermeneutic to apply to it.
Moreover, we all know there are verses and portions of the Old Testament that might as well be read and treated as a Gestalt. For instance, we can take a portion of Isaiah, say Chapter 48 on the whole, and read it thoroughly. ... after doing so, I have to admit that I come away from a "straightforward" reading of that entire chapter with the question: "What does all that even mean???"
It's not easy to tell, is it?
If what you are implying is correct, then sin was already in the world with Satan. So Adam & Eve aren't to blame for sin entering the world. God allowed Satan into the garden, bringing sin with it. The best you can say is that Adam & Eve were used as playthings by God & Satan in a sick game between them, just as Job was used by God & Satan to play a game inJob. So why do Christians insist that man bought about his own downfall? God knew exactly what would happen if he allowed Satan into the garden. As I dont believe the serpent is Satan, this is the question christians have to answer. Can YOU answer it, because no Christian to date has attempted to answer the question?
Yes, I suppose it can be argued that sin began before the Creation of humanity, with the rebellion of Satan & the fallen angels. However, it is not God that Used them, but rather Satan. God Did not Bring Satan into the Garden of Eden, he snuck in himself, in order to deceive the first woman & through her, the first man. Yes, God & Satan Made a Bet with One another, in regards to Job. God Lets Satan test all of us. Actually, there is a story regarding Pope Leo XIII that is somewhat similar to the story of Job.If what you are implying is correct, then sin was already in the world with Satan. So Adam & Eve aren't to blame for sin entering the world. God allowed Satan into the garden, bringing sin with it. The best you can say is that Adam & Eve were used as playthings by God & Satan in a sick game between them, just as Job was used by God & Satan to play a game inJob. So why do Christians insist that man bought about his own downfall? God knew exactly what would happen if he allowed Satan into the garden. As I dont believe the serpent is Satan, this is the question christians have to answer. Can YOU answer it, because no Christian to date has attempted to answer the question?
If you read Isaih 48:17, it makes it clear that the "redeemer" is YWH. There is no mention of God having a son who will later come to redeem Israel. The redeemer is already there, to redeem Israel from Babylon.
I don't see any difficulty with this chapter UNLESS you are reading it from the point of view of a Christian, & you need to make Christ the redeemer?
If God is omniscient, he would have known ahead of time that Satan would try to gain access to the garden to trick Adam & Eve. If God is all powerful, he could easily have prevented Satan from entering the garden. Either God is neither omniscient or all powerful, or he WANTED Adam & Eve to fail. There are no other explanations.Yes, I suppose it can be argued that sin began before the Creation of humanity, with the rebellion of Satan & the fallen angels. However, it is not God that Used them, but rather Satan. God Did not Bring Satan into the Garden of Eden, he snuck in himself, in order to deceive the first woman & through her, the first man. Yes, God & Satan Made a Bet with One another, in regards to Job. God Lets Satan test all of us. Actually, there is a story regarding Pope Leo XIII that is somewhat similar to the story of Job.
Vision Of Pope Leo XIII
Interesting topic and ideas being expressed here.The seed of Satan are those who oppose God.
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