Genesis 1 Again

[cupid dave]

cupid dave
Good point, BUT...
... the whole verse stated by Isaiah here is what did happen:


Rev. 6:12 And I beheld, (in the days of Emperor Theodocius, who established the Holy Roman, Catholic, Apostolic Church, on 27 February 380), when he, (the Lamb of the tribe of Judah, the off-spring of the root of David: [Rev 5:5]), had opened the sixth seal of (scripture), and, lo, there was a great earthquake (of religious social change); and the Sun (signs of Astrology) became (as) black as (the) sackcloth of (the hood covering a nun's) hair, and the moon became as blood (of Christ, used thereafter to determine the very day of the Easter and Passover).
Originally Posted by cupid dave


Rev. 6:13 And the stars' (twelve constellations of Sun Signs) of heaven fell (from popular grace) unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, (ruined), when she is (destructively) shaken of a mighty wind.

Rev. 6:14 And (Astrology) departed (from popular practice) as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every (Pagan religion, secret society, and Gnosticism) were moved out of their places (in the pagan societies throughout all the Roman World).

Rev. 6:15 And (1) the kings of the earth, (POLITICIANS), and (2) the great men, (STATESMEN), and (3) the rich men, (ECONOMIC BARONS), and (4) the chief captains, (pagan PRIESTHOODS), and (5) the mighty men, (MILITARY LEADERS), and (7) every free man, (PEASANT), hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the (institutionalized) mountains (of that pagan society);


Rev. 6:16 And said to the mountains (of the previous decadent, hedonistic social institutions) and rocks (of that wide-open, sexually promiscuous culture), "Fall on us," (help!), and "hide us from the face (of Papal judgment) of (Universal Catholicism), him that sitteth on the throne (of Christian Rome) and from the (words of) wrath of the Lamb," (the Word of the New Testament, canonized in 382AD):

Rev. 6:17 For the great day of his wrath, (the one thousand year reign predicted), is come; and who, (what other God, or religion, or denomination), shall be able to stand (during these Dark Ages)?

Note: Catholic Encyclopedia:
With the overthrow of the old Roman Empire and the victory of Christianity, (legally the only church in the whole Empire by 380 AD), astrology lost its importance in the centers of Christian civilization in the West. The last known astrologer of the old world was Johannes Laurentius (sometimes called Lydus) of Philadelphia in Lydia, who lived A.D. 490-565.

Ah, so you merely spiritualize away any reality to the mountains being leveled, 100 lb hailstones, new heavens and earth, and etc etc. Interesting.

It can't work, though. Obviously the sky hasn't fallen yet, last week, or in the days of Rome or anywhere else.

Of course the new heaven and new earth arrived all over the Roman World where the pagan mythological heavens departed for 1000 years of Universal Monastic Christianity in The New Jerusalem:

 

[Jazer]

Not from what I have seen.

I have seen to many people die.
Even people that I thought were living a good life.
Perhaps your experience is different from mine.

 

[Jazer]

The New Jerusalem

I sort of thought the New Jerusalem would make up the whole Arab Continental Plate.

 

[Belk]

I have seen to many people die.
Even people that I thought were living a good life.
Perhaps your experience is different from mine.

And death has exactly what to do with what I quoted? Everything that is alive eventually dies.

 

[Huram Abi]

People until the last century would never have accepted such way out statement as 7 Eras, Pangea, a Dark Comic Age, and such things as 22 species in the ascent t of man out of Africa in a of great population "flood."

People who have a basic grasp of these subjects still don't and will never accept these statements as you describe them.

People in the next century still will not accept them, because they are bogus claims that conflict with evidence and common sense.

 

[dad]

cupid dave
Good point, BUT...
... the whole verse stated by Isaiah here is what did happen:


Rev. 6:12 And I beheld, (in the days of Emperor Theodocius, who established the Holy Roman, Catholic, Apostolic Church, on 27 February 380), when he, (the Lamb of the tribe of Judah, the off-spring of the root of David: [Rev 5:5]), had opened the sixth seal of (scripture), and, lo, there was a great earthquake (of religious social change); and the Sun (signs of Astrology) became (as) black as (the) sackcloth of (the hood covering a nun's) hair, and the moon became as blood (of Christ, used thereafter to determine the very day of the Easter and Passover).
Originally Posted by cupid dave


Rev. 6:13 And the stars' (twelve constellations of Sun Signs) of heaven fell (from popular grace) unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, (ruined), when she is (destructively) shaken of a mighty wind.

Rev. 6:14 And (Astrology) departed (from popular practice) as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every (Pagan religion, secret society, and Gnosticism) were moved out of their places (in the pagan societies throughout all the Roman World).

Rev. 6:15 And (1) the kings of the earth, (POLITICIANS), and (2) the great men, (STATESMEN), and (3) the rich men, (ECONOMIC BARONS), and (4) the chief captains, (pagan PRIESTHOODS), and (5) the mighty men, (MILITARY LEADERS), and (7) every free man, (PEASANT), hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the (institutionalized) mountains (of that pagan society);


Rev. 6:16 And said to the mountains (of the previous decadent, hedonistic social institutions) and rocks (of that wide-open, sexually promiscuous culture), "Fall on us," (help!), and "hide us from the face (of Papal judgment) of (Universal Catholicism), him that sitteth on the throne (of Christian Rome) and from the (words of) wrath of the Lamb," (the Word of the New Testament, canonized in 382AD):

Rev. 6:17 For the great day of his wrath, (the one thousand year reign predicted), is come; and who, (what other God, or religion, or denomination), shall be able to stand (during these Dark Ages)?

Note: Catholic Encyclopedia:
With the overthrow of the old Roman Empire and the victory of Christianity, (legally the only church in the whole Empire by 380 AD), astrology lost its importance in the centers of Christian civilization in the West. The last known astrologer of the old world was Johannes Laurentius (sometimes called Lydus) of Philadelphia in Lydia, who lived A.D. 490-565.







Of course the new heaven and new earth arrived all over the Roman World where the pagan mythological heavens departed for 1000 years of Universal Monastic Christianity in The New Jerusalem:

So the new heaven and earth arrived!!! Wow. No more seas? Wow. No more war? The New Jerusalem came down from heaven to earth? Wow. Wow. No more death? Wow. No more crying or sorrow? Wow. Lurkers...no, be certain it didn't!

 

[dad]

But the verses you quoted below show how the sun, moon and stars can stop shining.
The earth being created before the rest of the universe (the heavens) sounds like a bit of a stretch. Especially when "in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." In that order.
Well, yes -- but this does not mean they always shined for us. They would have also shined for prehistoric lifeforms that existed before man came on the world scene.

No bible support for life on earth before creation week.

As I said earlier, these verses show how the sun, moon and stars can stop shining. This is caused by a divinely inspired global catastrophe. The resulting dust, debris and smog in the earth’s atmosphere will darkened the sky, blotting out the celestial lights.

See, the day of the LORD is coming — a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger — to make the land desolate and destroy the sinners within it. The stars of heaven and their constellations will not show their light. The rising sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light. (Isa 13:9-10).

“I will cover the heavens and darken their stars; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon will not give its light. All the shining lights in the heavens I will darken over you; I will bring darkness over your land, declares the Sovereign LORD.” (Ezek 32:7-8).

This darkness and desolation is similar to that described in Genesis 1. A global catastrophe resulting in dust, debris and smog in the earth’s atmosphere could have darkened the sky, blotting out the celestial lights, and during the six day re-creation events the celestial lights would have been "made" to re-appear on day four after the dust, debris and smog were removed.

A similar global catastrophe followed by global renewal is predicted to occur again in the future.

No. Man can now go to the moon. If men in a spaceship or space station etc saw the sun and moon, then it would not be out...even if a satellite saw it!
Also one can't cover the sun with a cloud and put out the moonlight by earth storms!

Eze 32:7 -And when I shall put thee out, I will cover the heaven, and make the stars thereof dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her light.
Joe 2:10 - The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining: The earth will shake but so will the heavens, we can't assign a cause to the earth.


Mt 24:29 -Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: Stars will fall to earth. Science has it pretty well all wrong! Sizes, composition, distance, etc.

The bible does NOT need to be hammered into the little box of man's understanding.

 

[Jazer]

And death has exactly what to do with what I quoted? Everything that is alive eventually dies.

We do not know for sure if everyone dies. But we do know that some people live a long life and we tend to grieve more when people die young. You made a comment about what you have seen. I simply pointed out that you do not seem to be able to see what you need to see. That is what it means to be born again. When you become a christian you then have eyes that see and ears that hear. You have a tougue that can praise God and proclaim the good news. Otherwise people go around saying I do not see, I do not see.

 

[Jazer]

[/color] No bible support for life on earth before creation week.

We are told in Gen 1:2 "And the earth was without form, and void;" tohuw bohuw. We see this again in Jeremiah 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, [it was] without form, and void; and the heavens, and they [had] no light.

Clearly in Jeremiah there has been something here before. So to say "no Bible support", may not be accurate. So often with the Bible we receive shaddows and typle. The Bible is not always as plain as some people would like it to be. God is not always direct and even Isaiah talks about "hidden riches of secret places". Jesus talks about pearl of great price. We need to seek to find and for some there can be a high price to pay. Although the real price is our filthy rags and we receive Elegant Apparel in return for the rags we have to give up.

Perhaps one understanding of these filthy rags is our own human ability to be able to understand. Lots of well educated people come here that do not understand the Bible, God or the things of God. Yet when we receive Elegant Apparel then we receive God's ability. We have the mind of Christ and the Divine thoughts of God. That is why the church can be of one mind and one accord. It is not a Human Mind that we are united. We are united together as one when we put on the mind of Christ.

Actually Science tells us the same thing. They talk about nanodiamond comets that hit the earth 12,900 years ago. A day in Genesis is 1000 years. The Bible begins around 12,900 years ago. We are told there was darkness on the earth. Only two things can cause darkness, volcanos and comets hitting the earth. It is really amazing that science comes up with a date that is so very accurate. But they go by various ice samples in Greenland. The ice samples we are told are very accurate.

 

[Belk]

We do not know for sure if everyone dies. But we do know that some people live a long life and we tend to grieve more when people die young. You made a comment about what you have seen. I simply pointed out that you do not seem to be able to see what you need to see. That is what it means to be born again. When you become a christian you then have eyes that see and ears that hear. You have a tougue that can praise God and proclaim the good news. Otherwise people go around saying I do not see, I do not see.

And what is required to be born again? Do you have to believe in God and Jesus to be born again or can I as an atheist be born again so I can see this evidence prior to believing that it should be there?

 

[Doveaman]

We are told in Gen 1:2 "And the earth was without form, and void;" tohuw bohuw. We see this again in Jeremiah 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, [it was] without form, and void; and the heavens, and they [had] no light.

Clearly in Jeremiah there has been something here before. So to say "no Bible support", may not be accurate.

The "without form" and "void" and "no light" in Jeremiah 4 is describing how the earth had become following a global catastrophe, which gives support to the idea that the "without form" and "void" and "darkness" in Genesis 1 may also be describing how the earth had become following a global catastrophe.

"The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep." (Gen 1:2).

"I beheld the earth, and indeed it was without form, and void; And the heavens, they had no light." (Jer 4:23).

 

[cupid dave]

The "without form" and "void" and "no light" in Jeremiah 4 is describing how the earth had become following a global catastrophe, which gives support to the idea that the "without form" and "void" and "darkness" in Genesis 1 may also be describing how the earth had become following a global catastrophe.

"The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep." (Gen 1:2).

"I beheld the earth, and indeed it was without form, and void; And the heavens, they had no light." (Jer 4:23).

It simply was what happened as the spinning hot rocks around the sun gradually coalsed into one sphere the way science explains it:

The hot spinning molten matter that was to coalesce into the planet Earth was without form:
(Gen 1:2)

"Without form and void"
The phrase traditionally translated in English "without form and void" is
'uncreated.'

The Greek Septuagint (LXX) rendered this term as "unseen and unformed" (Greek), paralleling the Greek concept of Chaos.
In the Hebrew Bible, the phrase is a dis legomenon, being used only in one other place, Jeremiah 4:23.
There Jeremiah is telling Israel that sin and rebellion against God will lead to "darkness and chaos," or to "de-creation," "as if the earth had been
'uncreated.'

 

[Doveaman]

It simply was what happened as the spinning hot rocks around the sun gradually coalsed into one sphere the way science explains it:

The hot spinning molten matter that was to coalesce into the planet Earth was without form:
(Gen 1:2)

Hot spinning molten matter produce light.

In Genesis 1:2 there was no light, only darkness.

"The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.
And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters." (Gen 1:2).

In addition, if Genesis 1:2 is describing "hot spinning molten matter" there would be no waters.

"Without form and void"
The phrase traditionally translated in English "without form and void" is
'uncreated.'

The Greek Septuagint (LXX) rendered this term as "unseen and unformed" (Greek), paralleling the Greek concept of Chaos.
In the Hebrew Bible, the phrase is a dis legomenon, being used only in one other place, Jeremiah 4:23.
There Jeremiah is telling Israel that sin and rebellion against God will lead to "darkness and chaos," or to "de-creation," "as if the earth had been
'uncreated.'

Agreed. And Genesis 1 could also be describing a "de-creation" followed by a "re-creation".

 

[dad]

It simply was what happened as the spinning hot rocks around the sun gradually coalsed into one sphere the way science explains it:

The hot spinning molten matter that was to coalesce into the planet Earth was without form:
(Gen 1:2)

"Without form and void"
The phrase traditionally translated in English "without form and void" is
'uncreated.'

The Greek Septuagint (LXX) rendered this term as "unseen and unformed" (Greek), paralleling the Greek concept of Chaos.
In the Hebrew Bible, the phrase is a dis legomenon, being used only in one other place, Jeremiah 4:23.
There Jeremiah is telling Israel that sin and rebellion against God will lead to "darkness and chaos," or to "de-creation," "as if the earth had been
'uncreated.'

Nope. The context is the wrath of God and all prophesy students know when that special time is! Any previous punishment was just a shadow, a tiny glimpse.


"19 My bowels, my bowels! I am pained at my very [SIZE=-1][/SIZE] heart; my heart maketh a noise in me; I cannot hold my peace, because thou hast heard, O my soul, the sound of the trumpet, the alarm of war. 20 Destruction upon destruction is cried; for the whole land is spoiled: suddenly are my tents spoiled, and my curtains in a moment. 21 How long shall I see the standard, and hear the sound of the trumpet? 22 For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge. 23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. 24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. 25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. 26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger."