Genesis 1-11: Myth or History?

[Iosias]

Full article found here.

l believe in God the Father, Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth."

This is first in the Christian creed.

It is very simple: the Christian knows God as Creator and, therefore the truth about the origin of the world and himself by faith—by faith only. Implied is that this knowledge of God as Creator is derived from Scripture, especially from the outstanding revelation of God as Creator in Genesis l and 2. For faith looks to, and is informed by, the inspired Word of God.

Knowledge of God as Creator is not only first. It is also fundamental. It is fundamental to our knowledge of God as Redeemer and, therefore, to knowledge of our redemption. Upon both of these articles, faith in God as Creator and faith in God as Redeemer, depends the third: "I believe in the Holy Ghost." Where the doubt of unbelief concerning the Creator is entertained, trust in the redemption of the cross and hope of the resurrection of the body are a lost cause.

This is the issue in the present controversy over the historicity of Genesis 1-11 in reputedly orthodox churches and seminaries. Rightly, the controversy centers on the days of Genesis 1 and 2.
In a few years, the churches that tolerate the question, "Genesis 1-11: Myth or History?" as a serious question (to be answered, of course, by "science") will be struggling with the question, "Luke 1 and 2: Myth or History?" Soon thereafter, I Corinthians 15 will be a problem.

Will Reformed and Presbyterian churches confess the first article of the Christian faith in the teeth of the scientism, evolutionism, higher criticism of the Bible, and sheer ridicule of faith of our day?
This is the real question.

Prof. David J. Engelsma

 

[Assyrian]

Any TEs here NOT believe God is the maker of heaven and earth?

 

[crawfish]

We want these little children to go to heaven. If they come to doubt all these answers as myth, they will go to hell as unbelievers. Whoever is responsible—parent, preacher, schoolteacher, theologian, or synod—it were better for them that a millstone were hanged about their neck and that they were drowned in the depth of the sea.

There's an antithesis to this argument. What of the people who grow up hearing that Genesis 1:1-11 HAS to be true if the Bible is true, yet sees all the evidence in nature that it CANNOT be literally true? Would not their logical conclusion be that the entire thing must be bunk, leading to a complete loss of faith?

This is happening now. Quite often, in fact.

Do not avoid the truth. Nature proclaims God's glory. [SIZE=-1]"The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands." - Psalms 19:1. [/SIZE] How can we probe the secrets of the universe and not find evidence of God?

We should not be afraid of science, but welcome it with open arms. Holding onto a rigid understanding of scripture can only hurt us.

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

Any TEs here NOT believe God is the maker of heaven and earth?

I don't, I don't! *frantically waves hand*

Actually I'm lying.

Of course God made the heavens and the earth, and all things visible and invisible. I recite it daily in the Nicene Creed.

Evolution is one of God's man mechanisms for creation- a process guided by his divine, ineffible grace and sovereignty.

 

[Iosias]

Evolution is one of God's man mechanisms for creation- a process guided by his divine, ineffible grace and sovereignty.

Could you explain in more detail? When did it start &c.?

 

[Dannager]

When did it start &c.?

Totally off-topic here, but wow. That's the first time I've seen someone use the &c abbreviation outside a pre-law course and Jane Austen.

 

[shernren]

Well, God started creating (from the point of view of the universe) at the Big Bang, or possibly before the Big Bang if that means anything at all. God then created the various elements through nucleosynthesis, the Sun and the Earth through the nebular collapse of the early solar system, the first life forms through abiogenesis, and the biodiversity we see today through evolution. God has never been absent. He started the party, He's never left the party, and when the party's over He's inviting us all over to His house for eternal supper. And that's non-negotiable, no matter what you think about when and how the party itself started.

 

[Jadis40]

Well, God started creating (from the point of view of the universe) at the Big Bang, or possibly before the Big Bang if that means anything at all. God then created the various elements through nucleosynthesis, the Sun and the Earth through the nebular collapse of the early solar system, the first life forms through abiogenesis, and the biodiversity we see today through evolution. God has never been absent. He started the party, He's never left the party, and when the party's over He's inviting us all over to His house for eternal supper. And that's non-negotiable, no matter what you think about when and how the party itself started.

This is a very good response. Personally, as people in this particular area of the forum know, I've stated on a number of occasions that I was convinced of the ancient age (13+ billion years) of this universe since I was in elementary school. I've never had reason to doubt it. To me, the Big Bang is one of the most profound pieces of evidence that God did create the universe, other galaxies, our galaxy, solar system and laws under which nature operates.

I vividly remember one night back when I was in elementary school looking up at the night sky and the stars, and in that moment I was convinced beyond any doubt that there was a God, and looking back on that experience, I felt that I could sense His presence at that particular moment.

To me, what holds the most importance is what God did to redeem us back to Himself with Christ's death on the cross, and Jesus' resurrection 3 days later.

 

[Psyka]

Genesis si a Myth. Look this link

 

[Scotishfury09]

Yikes, not English.

 

[lucaspa]

l believe in God the Father, Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth."

This is first in the Christian creed.

It is very simple: the Christian knows God as Creator and, therefore the truth about the origin of the world and himself by faith—by faith only.

Prof. Englesma has several problems. Here is the first one: he is confusing the Who and Why of Creation with the How. The Apostle's and Nicene Creeds affirm that God created. But then comes the next question: HOW did God create?

The creed says we know the Who by faith. Englesma thinks that we can only know the "how" by faith also. He forgets that God created!

Implied is that this knowledge of God as Creator is derived from Scripture, especially from the outstanding revelation of God as Creator in Genesis l and 2. For faith looks to, and is informed by, the inspired Word of God.

This is Englesma's major problem: false idol worship. He should know that the "Word" is Jesus, not scripture. Nor is "scripture" capitalized. He has made his human interpretation of Genesis 1-11 into his god that he worships.

Knowledge of God as Creator is not only first. It is also fundamental. It is fundamental to our knowledge of God as Redeemer and, therefore, to knowledge of our redemption.

This is the third problem: non-sequitor logic. He constructs a strawman slippery slope. He does this because he wants worship of his false god -- a literal reading of Genesis 1-11. In reality, HOW God created is not connected to redemption.

In a few years, the churches that tolerate the question, "Genesis 1-11: Myth or History?" as a serious question (to be answered, of course, by "science") will be struggling with the question, "Luke 1 and 2: Myth or History?" Soon thereafter, I Corinthians 15 will be a problem.

Another false slope. Also the construction of a false dichotomy. Genesis 1-11 is neither "myth" as in "fantasy" nor literal history. Instead, Genesis 1-11 tells theological truths that are as true in modern science as they are in the Babylonian science in which they are set.

Will Reformed and Presbyterian churches confess the first article of the Christian faith in the teeth of the scientism, evolutionism, higher criticism of the Bible, and sheer ridicule of faith of our day?
This is the real question.

Prof. David J. Engelsma

This is the restatement of the fears of the Fundamentalists at the beginning of the 20th century. Fundamentalism really hated higher criticism: 2/3 of The Fundamentals is devoted to trying to reject higher criticism. This is forgetting that Christianity is about a man, not about a book. Fundamentalism is about a book.

The real ridicule of faith is Engelsma's Fundamentalism, because it substitutes a false idol for God.

 

[lucaspa]

Could you explain in more detail? When did it start &c.?

As Shernen stated, at the Big Bang. That's how God created the universe. He created galaxies, stars, and planets by gravity. He created life by chemistry and the diversity of life by evolution.

The problem Engelsma and other creationists have is that they are secret atheists. They think that "natural" = without God. That is totally against Judeo-Christianity and is the basic statement of faith of atheism.

Genesis tells us Who created and why. God's Creation (which is what science studies) tells us how God created. The processes discovered by science are simply how God created.

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

Could you explain in more detail? When did it start &c.?

I would say that God uses all natural processes to further his soveriegn plan.

God used quantum mechanics in the Big Bang.

God used the laws of classical physics to gather matter into superclusters, galaxies, solar systems, stars, and planets.

God used natural geological processes to move the earth into a state capable of supporting biomatter.

God used abiogenesis to develop semi-life from a series of chemical compounds.

God directed the process of evolution in order to move simple life substances into more complex organisms.

All throughout, God soveriegnly acted to maintain the laws of the universe he laid down from the beginning, and sustained creation itself through his own good graces.