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Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning, (but not the very beginning) God created...

Soyeong

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At the beginning of scripture, we see the creation story told "from the beginning". But there's something missing from what was created. The angels! There's no mention of them being created, but I believe (somewhere) that it's said that angels existed before the earth was created, which means that when God created the heavens and the earth, the angels were already created, which means when earth was created, it wasn't "The Beginning".

Your thoughts?

Proverbs 3:19 The LORD by wisdom founded the earth; by understanding he established the heavens;

See also Proverbs 8 in regard to when wisdom was created, especially verses 22-28.

“Wisdom is older than the creation…of the whole universe” (On the Virtues, 62).

With wisdom did God create and perfect the heavens and the earth (Fragment Targum to Genesis 1:1)

In the beginning with wisdom did God create (Targum Neophyti to Genesis 1:1)
 
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TedT

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I believe (somewhere) that it's said that angels existed before the earth was created

Job 38:7 which can also be read to imply EVERY PERSON CREATED IN HIS IMAGE saw the creation of the physical universe...
 
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Citizen of the Kingdom

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Proverbs 3:19 The LORD by wisdom founded the earth; by understanding he established the heavens;

See also Probers 8 in regard to when wisdom was created, especially verses 22-28.

“Wisdom is older than the creation…of the whole universe” (On the Virtues, 62).

With wisdom did God create and perfect the heavens and the earth (Fragment Targum to Genesis 1:1)

In the beginning with wisdom did God create (Targum Neophyti to Genesis 1:1)
Hi Soyeong, I'm not familiar with the nonbiblical quotes so I wonder if you would expand on them somewhat. Does it include details of Christ? or is that Judaen literature? Thanks in advance.

ETA: in particular any literature connecting John 1:1 onward? in the beginning ....
 
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Soyeong

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Hi Soyeong, I'm not familiar with the nonbiblical quotes so I wonder if you would expand on them somewhat. Does it include details of Christ? or is that Judaen literature? Thanks in advance.

Hello, the Targum is an Aramaic translation of the OT that was done to make it clear and give the meaning to it so that the people understood what was being read (Nehemiah 8:8), so for example, if they thought that a prophecy was alluding to the Messiah, then they would directly state that. The Targum was read out loud in the public readings, so it gives insight in how they understood the OT at that time. In order to avoid giving human characteristics to God, they would use the word "memra" in its place, which is translated into Greek as "logos", or into English as "word", so the Word of the Lord is personification of God's human characteristics, they attributed creation to the Word of the Lord, and there are strong parallels between Genesis 1 and the opening of John's Gospel. For example:

Genesis 1:27 (JER) And the Word of the Lord created man in His likeness, in the likeness of the presence of the Lord He created him, the male and his yoke-fellow He created them.

Genesis 7:16 (PAL) And they coming entered, male and female, of all flesh unto him, as the Lord had instructed him; and the Word of the Lord covered over the door of the ark upon the face thereof.

On the Virtues was written by Philo of Alexandria, who was a Jew who was roughly contemporary with Jesus, but probably never met him. He also wrote:

"...the most universal of all things is God; and in the second place the Word of God (Allegorical Interpretation, II, 86)

"...the shadow of God is His Word, which He used like an instrument when He was making the world..." (Allegorical Interpretation, III, 96)

"This same Word is continually a suppliant to the immortal God on behalf of the mortal race, which is exposed to affliction and misery; and is also the ambassador, sent by the Ruler of all, to the subject race...neither being uncreated as God, nor yet created as you, but being in the midst between these two extremities..." (Who is the Heir of Divine Things, 205-6)
 
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Citizen of the Kingdom

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Hello, the Targum is an Aramaic translation of the OT that was done to make it clear and give the meaning to it so that the people understood what was being read (Nehemiah 8:8), so for example, if they thought that a prophecy was alluding to the Messiah, then they would directly state that. The Targum was read out loud in the public readings, so it gives insight in how they understood the OT at that time. In order to avoid giving human characteristics to God, they would use the word "memra" in its place, which is translated into Greek as "logos", or into English as "word", so the Word of the Lord is personification of God's human characteristics, they attributed creation to the Word of the Lord, and there are strong parallels between Genesis 1 and the opening of John's Gospel. For example:

Genesis 1:27 (JER) And the Word of the Lord created man in His likeness, in the likeness of the presence of the Lord He created him, the male and his yoke-fellow He created them.

Genesis 7:16 (PAL) And they coming entered, male and female, of all flesh unto him, as the Lord had instructed him; and the Word of the Lord covered over the door of the ark upon the face thereof.

On the Virtues was written by Philo of Alexandria, who was a Jew who was roughly contemporary with Jesus, but probably never met him. He also wrote:

"...the most universal of all things is God; and in the second place the Word of God (Allegorical Interpretation, II, 86)

"...the shadow of God is His Word, which He used like an instrument when He was making the world..." (Allegorical Interpretation, III, 96)

"This same Word is continually a suppliant to the immortal God on behalf of the mortal race, which is exposed to affliction and misery; and is also the ambassador, sent by the Ruler of all, to the subject race...neither being uncreated as God, nor yet created as you, but being in the midst between these two extremities..." (Who is the Heir of Divine Things, 205-6)
Ok thanks, that's easily understandable. I guess what I'm looking for is anything relating wisdom from the beginning, to Christ in the beginning. Proverbs 8 and John 1
 
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Jonaitis

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Your thoughts?
You must consider the context.
"In the beginning, God created the Heaven and the Earth."

The Heaven was created and named on the second day (v. 7).
The Earth and Seas were created and named on the third day (v. 10).

We must read Genesis in the way that the original audience would have understood it in the ancient world. They had no idea that humans inhabit a giant floating rock in space.
 
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