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General Call or Free Offer?

The Bible teaches

  • the general call of the Gospel.

  • the free offer or well meant offer of the Gospel.

  • none of the above and I will explain.


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heymikey80

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I don't believe it's an offer at all but simply a command to repent or else.
Why then does God express a desire -- and with a force of statement utterly unmistakable?

Say to them, As I live, declares the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live Ez 33:11

It's more than a command. It's a sentiment of God. It certainly includes a compelling command. But it definitely also includes a desire of God. It says so.

I realize it takes a lot to recognize that God's will is not all forces the same -- there's a Greek sense of elegance in thinking God is unified in all desires. But it appears Scripturally God has all forces organized rightly, and the result is moving in the direction God and His world moves in.

That's what you get when you read Calvin's most calvinistic articles, in "Eternal Predestination" and "Secret Providence".
 
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JM

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A command to repent isn't an offer. It is a command. The reprobate should repent and God told him he should repent. Does he repent then? No. He rejects God even in the face of revealed damnation.

And you would be correct. Just like giving the command, "thou shalt not kill" is not an offer...



It is clear that God does not desire to save everyone, He doesn't give an offer to everyone, in the preaching of the Gospel of otherwise. It's Arminian to claim God is sentimental.

We, the Particular Baptist, do not appeal to Calvin as mikey would have us. We do not have a final authority in the Banner of Truth either.

jm
 
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Osage Bluestem

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God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked. He loves righteousness and those who don't repent do not please him. It is impossible to please God without faith.

Hebrews 11:6 ESV
6 And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.
 
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heymikey80

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God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked. He loves righteousness and those who don't repent do not please him.
And more:

Say to them, As I live, declares the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live Ez 33:11

God takes pleasure in the wicked turning from his way. It isn't as simple as God taking pleasure in shedding His grace: it is more complicated in that God takes pleasure in repentance.
 
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the particular baptist

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From the Gospel Standard articles of faith

ARTICLE 24
GOSPEL INVITATIONS

We believe that the invitations of the Gospel, being spirit and life*, are intended only for those who have been made by the blessed Spirit to feel their lost state as sinners and their need of Christ as their Saviour, and to repent of and forsake their sins.

Scripture references:
Isa. 55. 1; John 7. 37; Prov. 28. 13; Matt. 11. 28-30; John
6. 37.

* That is, under the influence of the Holy Spirit.
 
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heymikey80

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That would at the very least leave open the intention of the invitation in condemning those rejecting the Gospel.

Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. 19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. Jn 3:18-19

The issue as I've seen it normally revolves about whether the invitation is earnestly extended to everyone, or whether it's extended to the reprobate with the desire to condemn them even further. That's why Ezekiel 18 & 33 project so strongly into this issue. If the desire of God is the condemnation of evil, Ezekiel 18 & 33 are spoilers. They indicate God's desire is the redemption of evil.

That's not specifically ignoring the intent of the Gospel in condemning those who reject it. It's saying that God's offer would truly be open to any heart that would be open to Him.

The trouble is not in the openness of the offer. It's squarely placed in the heart of man.

So God's desire is to redeem some from evil. And God's desire is to save those redeemed from evil. There is no other way to be redeemed from evil than by His Spirit. He's redeemed us from our common misery by the grace of regeneration; and God has moved to save us by organizing all the graces.
 
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cygnusx1

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Amen Mikey !!!

just posted this in soteriology , figured it may fit in here too ;


The question the OP poses is a good one .

How do you know that you have been predestined to salvation?

but I want to address the more controversial issue


If it is true , and I don't believe it is , that God has no Gospel for the none -elect , that God does not offer salvation to anyone , that the Gospel is a command and not an offer , and it is preached to all men , elect and none elect because the preacher isn't quite sure who is elect or none elect as many H - Calvinists insist , then how does one know if the Gospel being preached is for me ?

How , given the concept that God cares not a jot for the none elect (He does , Matthew 5) are we to know when we hear the Gospel that it is for "me" and not just for the regenerate ?

Don't bother replying unless you can see the point the Hyper/High Calvinist is saying as you will undoubtedly throw out the "baby with the bath water" ...

The truth is Predestination and Divine election are no barrier whatsoever to the Gospel Offer , neither is a Limited atonement seeing as the power of Christs blood is sufficient to save any man .

The real problem is not just the Hyper-Calvinist feels God has nothing to offer the reprobate , BUT THE PREACHER does , that is a contradiction all by itself ! , yet the real problem is for those who do hear the Gospel , if it is "only for the elect" how do you know it's for 'you' ?
 
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Osage Bluestem

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An elect person will see he is a sinner without hope. He will be drawn to the cross and see that only Jesus Christ can forgive his sins. He will believe, repent, and ask for forgiveness and be forgiven by Jesus.

That's all a christian is, an undeserving sinner who has been forgiven by Jesus.
 
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cygnusx1

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that still doesn't tell us how we know the Gospel is "for me" ........ if the Gospel is "only for the elect " then how is anyone ever going to know if they are called ?

your answer doesn't help because it looks to the after effects of salvation/regeneration , such after effects tell us nothing at the point where it counts .

Furthermore , what we have here , is God commanding all men do something "repent and believe" when it is said He has no desire that all obey this command ........

so should I obey if God doesn't want / desire / will me to ? why ?
 
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Osage Bluestem

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If you are elect it's not going to matter. You will believe. You will repent. You will ask Jesus for forgiveness and you will be forgiven.

Salvation is of the Lord and he converts people on his time in his way after they have been exposed to the gospel he provided.
 
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cygnusx1

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I don't think your hearing me , let me try another angle ;

The Gospel is all about Gods great love , how do I know He loves "me" ?
 
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JM

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I don't think your hearing me , let me try another angle ;

The Gospel is all about Gods great love , how do I know He loves "me" ?

cyg, you are getting off topic.

London Baptist Confession, 18.2 "This certainty is not a bare conjectural and probable persuasion grounded upon a fallible hope, but an infallible assurance of faith founded on the blood and righteousness of Christ revealed in the Gospel; and also upon the inward evidence of those graces of the Spirit unto which promises are made, and on the testimony of the Spirit of adoption, witnessing with our spirits that we are the children of God; and, as a fruit thereof, keeping the heart both humble and holy."
( Hebrews 6:11, 19; Hebrews 6:17, 18; 2 Peter 1:4, 5, 10, 11; Romans 8:15, 16; 1 John 3:1-3 )
 
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Osage Bluestem

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I don't think your hearing me , let me try another angle ;

The Gospel is all about Gods great love , how do I know He loves "me" ?

When the Holy Spirit lets you know by regenerating you and bringing you to the faith that gives the assurance of God's love.
 
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the particular baptist

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I don't think your hearing me , let me try another angle ;

The Gospel is all about Gods great love , how do I know He loves "me" ?

When Christ reveals Himself in one of the elect, completely aside from the preaching of the gospel, Christ tells him He loves Him. It is called regeneration. These people obey the gospel whether they have previously heard it or have yet to hear it.
 
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student ad x

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Francis Turretin on Ezekiel 18:23 and 33:11



__________________________________________________



Good point.

it isn't the Gospel that damns men , its sin and Gods Law . The Good News isn't bad news (ever) the seed sown by the sower is the same , the effect is different sure , depending upon the ground being prepared .

The same sun that softens hardens .


Calvin’s commentary on 2 Corinthians 2:15,16:

 
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greatbar

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How can we, born reprobate and filthy sinners, ever choose good? We will always choose evil in our natural state. We can NEVER choose God. He elects us.

God, through His sovereign election, chooses some to salvation and condemns others to damnation.

To say we are capable of saving ourselves defeats God. If He "desires" all to salvation, then that doesn't make Him God. It limits Him. God cannot be limited. God is sovereign. "I am that I am".
 
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