Gender-Neutral Restrooms

[Archivist]

You said that you thought scripture talked more about
keeping ourselves from temptation than worrying about
tempting others.

The verses I gave talked about not only living in such a way
as to avoid temptation, but to avoid causing fellow believers
to stumble. As the one verse says:

"Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!"

Offenses are guaranteed in life. We don't want to be the cause
because that lays their sin on our record.

And exactly what temptation is caused by allowing men and women to pee is the same restroom?

 

[Armoured]

Of of curosity, which ADA regulations are you saying do nothing useful?

I'm curious to know how much he thinks changing the sticker on a bathroom door costs.

 

[rambot]

You said that you thought scripture talked more about
keeping ourselves from temptation than worrying about
tempting others.

The verses I gave talked about not only living in such a way
as to avoid temptation, but to avoid causing fellow believers
to stumble. As the one verse says:

"Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!"

Offenses are guaranteed in life. We don't want to be the cause
because that lays their sin on our record.

1) That verse IS targeted at "other believers". There are many, many MANY people who are not believers.
2) You think that supporting unisex bathrooms is causing another to stumble and I disagree to an extreme extent. We as individuals are not "responsible" for legislation of our entire country (whether we support it or not).
In fact, I would suggest that the way you apply this verse essentially condemns every pro gun rights Christian in the US. Is that a path you would choose to walk down?

I would argue that if you went into a unisex bathroom and encouraged your friend, while in their to RAPE someone, now THERE is a case where that verse applies appropriately. Legislation and policy is not something that God holds us responsible for.

All of my points are secondary to Archivists question though

 

[pat34lee]

Then I'm sure you wouldn't mind expalining what these problems are. I'm in the room peeing, she's in the room peeing. Neither of us is seeing what the other is doing. What is the problem?

Modesty. Even prudishness, if you prefer. I don't
even believe in open showers for single sexes, but
it won't be long for unisex bathrooms to become
unisex changing rooms and showers. As with most
things, it will start either in the schools or the military.

Darn, I'm way behind the times. That was last year.
http://dailycaller.com/2015/11/03/f...ess-as-girls-to-use-girls-shower-locker-room/

 

[pat34lee]

Of of curosity, which ADA regulations are you saying do nothing useful?

I'll let you see a list. This is just things that must
be checked if you put a business in an existing
building in order to see if it is legal.
http://www.adachecklist.org/doc/fullchecklist/ada-checklist.pdf

 

[Archivist]

Modesty. Even prudishness, if you prefer.

So because you are a self-admitted prude, no one should have the option of gender-neutral restrooms.

I don't even believe in open showers for single sexes, but it won't be long for unisex bathrooms to become unisex changing rooms and showers. As with most
things, it will start either in the schools or the military.

Darn, I'm way behind the times. That was last year.
http://dailycaller.com/2015/11/03/f...ess-as-girls-to-use-girls-shower-locker-room/

But that is a topic for a different thread.

 

[Archivist]

I'll let you see a list. This is just things that must be checked if you put a business in an existing building in order to see if it is legal.
http://www.adachecklist.org/doc/fullchecklist/ada-checklist.pdf

And, again, which ADA regulations are you saying do nothing useful? Handicapped parking spaces? Wheelchair ramps? Curb cuts for wheelchairs?

 

[pat34lee]

So because you are a self-admitted prude, no one should have the option of gender-neutral restrooms.

How about because I am not the only prude, other
Christians should be looking to see whose agenda
they are promoting and who they are offending.
We are not to be like the world. If we are like them,
we lose all credibility as God's ambassadors.

 

[pat34lee]

And, again, which ADA regulations are you saying do nothing useful? Handicapped parking spaces? Wheelchair ramps? Curb cuts for wheelchairs?

Skim through and see how many pages are devoted
only to restrooms, doorways, entrances and exits.
It's more about cost vs usefulness than being completely
useless. Same reason orphan drugs are hard to find.

 

[nChrist]

How about because I am not the only prude, other
Christians should be looking to see whose agenda
they are promoting and who they are offending.
We are not to be like the world. If we are like them,
we lose all credibility as God's ambassadors.

I believe the same way you do, but I don't consider myself to be a prude. I consider myself to be a person with some common sense and some knowledge of how many perverts, molesters, rapists, and other weirdos are out there waiting for their next victim. I have no intention of making their job any easier for them, and I could care less about who doesn't like my stance and opinions. Maybe it's my age and/or my circle of friends, but I can't find anyone who disagrees with me. We're really talking about common sense.

By the way, I used a unisex restroom today at the hospital and had no problems with it. It was designed for single person use and had a lock on the door. A safety check prior to sending one of my grandchildren in there would be easy. They would be completely safe if nobody was in there and I was standing outside the locked door waiting for them to come out.

 

[Armoured]

How about because I am not the only prude, other
Christians should be looking to see whose agenda
they are promoting and who they are offending.
We are not to be like the world. If we are like them,
we lose all credibility as God's ambassadors.

Wanting to go to the bathroom is hardly an "agenda".

 

[shelley1952]

Old people complain plenty, thank you very much.

This statement doesnt sound very nice !

What's interesting is that because your small community had a lot of elderly people, perhaps your community was also thoughtful enough to build things like ramps, handrails and other accountrements that aid the disabled in getting around.
And so the reason you didn't hear it is because the disabled people in your community were getting the support they needed. Lucky them.

As a matter of fact yes the community was thoughtful enough to build ramps, put in handrails, have special parking, matter of fact, some were in place before the laws came into effect.... thank you very much. You may have thought you were being cute in your opening statement but our community is a small farming community where people were very close and did care about people, and not just with words but also deeds, they were more than willing to help a fellow farmer with his harvest if he had been sick or was running behind and other farmers were done. If someone had a house or barn fire everyone pitched in and helped rebuild. Those old farmers are mostly gone and the younger farmers are not so much like that especially the real young. I guess you just couldnt believe there could actually be such a friendly, thoughtful community as what I was talking about, maybe you were raised in a city or maybe you are from a younger generation.

[Staff edit]

 

[shelley1952]

I believe the same way you do, but I don't consider myself to be a prude. I consider myself to be a person with some common sense and some knowledge of how many perverts, molesters, rapists, and other weirdos are out there waiting for their next victim. I have no intention of making their job any easier for them, and I could care less about who doesn't like my stance and opinions. Maybe it's my age and/or my circle of friends, but I can't find anyone who disagrees with me. We're really talking about common sense.

By the way, I used a unisex restroom today at the hospital and had no problems with it. It was designed for single person use and had a lock on the door. A safety check prior to sending one of my grandchildren in there would be easy. They would be completely safe if nobody was in there and I was standing outside the locked door waiting for them to come out.

Oh yes, yes ! [Staff edit]. If all the unisex restrooms was like you spoke of that would be a totally different issue. Those dont bother me. What I can't understand is why any responsible parent or woman as far as that goes would not believe a unisex bathroom can be more dangerous. [Staff edit]. I know my circle off friends and relatives think like I do too.

 

[Armoured]

Oh yes, yes ! [Staff edit]. If all the unisex restrooms was like you spoke of that would be a totally different issue. Those dont bother me. What I can't understand is why any responsible parent or woman as far as that goes would not believe a unisex bathroom can be more dangerous. [Staff edit]. I know my circle off friends and relatives think like I do too.

Took my daughter to a unisex bathroom just the other day. Didn't seem particularly dangerous to me.

 

[Archivist]

I believe the same way you do, but I don't consider myself to be a prude. I consider myself to be a person with some common sense and some knowledge of how many perverts, molesters, rapists, and other weirdos are out there waiting for their next victim. I have no intention of making their job any easier for them, and I could care less about who doesn't like my stance and opinions. Maybe it's my age and/or my circle of friends, but I can't find anyone who disagrees with me. We're really talking about common sense.

By the way, I used a unisex restroom today at the hospital and had no problems with it. It was designed for single person use and had a lock on the door. A safety check prior to sending one of my grandchildren in there would be easy. They would be completely safe if nobody was in there and I was standing outside the locked door waiting for them to come out.

This might be of interest: “Over 200 municipalities and 18 states have nondiscrimination laws protecting transgender people’s access to facilities consistent with the gender they live every day,” according to the coalition. "None of those jurisdictions have [sic] seen a rise in sexual violence or other public safety issues due to nondiscrimination laws. Assaulting another person in a restroom or changing room remains against the law in every single state.”

The complete article can be found here: http://abcnews.go.com/US/sexual-ass...ns-debunk-bathroom-predator/story?id=38604019.

Earlier in this thread a poster had mentioned the Sandusky sexual assaults that occurred at Penn State. Yet those assaults occurred not in a gender-neutral restroom, but in a same-sex changing room.

And note, no one in this thread has suggested that we should do away with all same-sex restrooms, just that gender-neutral restrooms should be available.

 

[Archivist]

Skim through and see how many pages are devoted
only to restrooms, doorways, entrances and exits.
It's more about cost vs usefulness than being completely
useless. Same reason orphan drugs are hard to find.

Yes, I had looked at it. There are 18 pages devoted to approach and enterance--handicapped parking, wheelchair ramps, door width. Even more is devoted to accessing goods and services and toilet facilities. You can't just tell abusiness that they have to have handicapped parking--you have to specify the width of the parking space, the grade of wheelchair ramps, required railing. That is all the material yous ent does.

 

[shelley1952]

Took my daughter to a unisex bathroom just the other day. Didn't seem particularly dangerous to me.

Do you want a cookie ? So what ?? It would only take once, what about when she goes in alone, only takes once.

 

[rambot]

As a matter of fact yes the community was thoughtful enough to build ramps, put in handrails, have special parking, matter of fact, some were in place before the laws came into effect.... thank you very much. You may have thought you were being cute in your opening statement but our community is a small farming community where people were very close and did care about people, and not just with words but also deeds, they were more than willing to help a fellow farmer with his harvest if he had been sick or was running behind and other farmers were done.

Thought I was being cute? In no uncertain terms did I think I was being cute. In no WAY. I assumed that your community did the RIGHT thing and made their spaces so that ALL people could access them without impediment.

[Staff edit]

Now if you could look past your circumstance and consider other people's circumstance perhaps you would have noticed that there would be hundreds of THOUSANDS of disabled people who did NOT have a community that valued them enough to make things like post offices, civic buildings or businesses accessible for them. You bemoan the ADA because the people in your community "didn't need it cause we took care of each other". Well, that really IS good for you, but do you not recognize that maybe your small town living experience was different from the other 300+million Americans?

Why don't disabled people outside of your small town have a right to access?

 

[rambot]

How about because I am not the only prude, other
Christians should be looking to see whose agenda
they are promoting and who they are offending.
We are not to be like the world. If we are like them,
we lose all credibility as God's ambassadors.

The BEST way to do that is to love your enemies. There are plenty of nonchristians who have a serious hate on for nonspecific bathrooms.

I consider myself to be a person with some common sense and some knowledge of how many perverts, molesters, rapists, and other weirdos are out there waiting for their next victim.

Might I suggest that if you are against nongender specific bathrooms, you have misplaced your "knowledge".

I have no intention of making their job any easier for them, and I could care less about who doesn't like my stance and opinions. Maybe it's my age and/or my circle of friends, but I can't find anyone who disagrees with me. We're really talking about common sense.

Or maybe you guys are all scared of the same thing and have the same solutions to problems you actually don't understand nearly as much as you thought.

 

[WolfGate]

And note, no one in this thread has suggested that we should do away with all same-sex restrooms, just that gender-neutral restrooms should be available.

I may be missing your point, but it sounds like you believe places of public accommodation should have gender neutral, men's and women's restrooms. Is that correct?