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Featured Gen 1 in a vacuum

Discussion in 'Creation & Theistic Evolution' started by DamianWarS, Jul 10, 2019 at 3:32 AM.

  1. d taylor

    d taylor Well-Known Member

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    Show one verse in Genesis 2 where it is stated that man was created before the plants.

    Also show a day (first,second,thrid,etc..) given for the creation of man in Genesis 2 and while you are doing that, show a day that the plants were created. It is not there because Genesis 2 is not giving an account of creation order, that was done in Genesis 1

    Verse 5 in Genesis 2 tells why there was no plant or herb yet, because God had not water the earth to make these plants and herbs to grow. There is nothing about verse 5 and an order of creation.

    The next verse tells how God created Adam, because in Genesis 1 God does not tell how.
    So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

    But in Genesis 2:7 we see some of how God created Adam.

    And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

    Again noting in that verse about an order of creation just a little detail of Gods creation method.
     
  2. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    What translation are you using? I do not see humans or mankind in the KJV. I see man.

    26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
    27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
    28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.


    The reason male and female creatures are not separated is because this account was not written to them, it was written to us. Men and women.
     
  3. DamianWarS

    DamianWarS Follower of Isa Al Masih Supporter

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    the hebrew word is "adam" strongs says "aw-dam'; from H119; ruddy i.e. a human being (an individual or the species, mankind, etc.)". NIV uses "mankind" others say "human" or "human being", the most common is "man"
     
  4. DamianWarS

    DamianWarS Follower of Isa Al Masih Supporter

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    if they are different accounts one is built up using days and the other is not so there is no need to speak of days in Gen 2. In the Gen 1 account Day 3 plants are created and would appear to be in full bloom, seed, fruit etc... the order of plants here probably is important because many creatures depend on them for food such as birds and fish (day 5) and insects and many other land animals (day 6). If there were no plants because the rain hasn't come yet or because they weren't tilled yet this would present a problem for the creatures that depend on plants to survive. many insects have a very short life cycle and wouldn't survive the wait. But if these are two separate accounts there really is no conflict because they are not meant to be reconciled together and just stand as separate accounts of a creation both with a different focus.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019 at 10:40 PM
  5. d taylor

    d taylor Well-Known Member

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    You are overlooking a major point there was no death yet, Adam had not sinned until he ate of the fruit. So death was not in/part the creation.
     
  6. DamianWarS

    DamianWarS Follower of Isa Al Masih Supporter

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    death is implicit pre-fall (like the death of seed for new life to grow) I also might add a strict no death before the fall is not a widely accepted position and typically even literal creationist accept death, just not the death of creatures with a soul (man). don't believe me? See for yourself. You may still claim there was no death you just do so largely alone and perhaps it's best to start a new thread discussing it if it's something you are passionate about.
     
  7. -57

    -57 Well-Known Member

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    There is no conflict of the order of creation.
    ...I haven't been through the entire thread yet, perhaps you will present the conflicts.
     
  8. Ronald

    Ronald Exhortations Supporter

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    He created on all six days. "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth."
    Day One
    He created Earth. It goes on to describe it being formless and void, with water, just like a floating bubble, like a lava lamp. Evidently since there was no stars, planets or moon yet with the physics, gravitational forces, it was a basic lump that He then worked on. He created light on the first day as well - this was light that was a physical light with waves, particles, the color spectrum - very complex, but notice it did not come from the sun, created on the 4th day. It radiated from Himself onto a physical earth.
    Day Two
    Separating the waters, was an act of creation as well, our breathable atmosphere, the clouds, the upper atmosphere, a protective barrier from space and this of course involves gravity.
    Day Three.
    He gathered the waters onto seas rivers and lakes and allowed dry land. And then created all the botanicals.
    Day Four
    Sun, moon, and the rest of the universe.
    Obviously the botanicals could not survive too long without the sun. This proves 1 day equals 24 hours, not epochs of time.
    DAY FIVE
    Sea life of all kinds.
    Day Six
    Animals of all kinds and finally Man.
    Notice, God finished all His work by the end of the sixth day. Therefore, all events, order and creation of Eve in chapter 2 are details about the first six days.
    Day Seven
    He rested
    What you seem to be confused about is the style of writing. The Hebrews have a style of outlining their thoughts, introducing the basic information in a paragraph or chapter first, then going back and filling in the details in the next paragraph or chapter. This is what Genesis 2 is, details about Genesis 1.
    You will see this style throughout the Bible.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019 at 8:40 AM
  9. -57

    -57 Well-Known Member

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    The plants in this instance appear to be plants God planted in the Garden of Eden.
     
  10. -57

    -57 Well-Known Member

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    The account presented in Genesis is literal account of how the Word that became flesh created and how mankind fell in Adam.

    In fact this view is strongly supportrf in Pauls letter to Timothy he explains how women should act in church....and Paul provides a reason based upon a literal interpretation of Genesis.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019 at 11:22 AM
  11. -57

    -57 Well-Known Member

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    These are the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were created,
    in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens. When no bush of the field was yet in the land and no small plant of the field had yet sprung up

    When you take out the verse numbers and simply read what it says...it says there was a time when the heavens and earth were created and there was no plants. The verses are a sort of transition into the creation of Adam and Eve.
     
  12. DamianWarS

    DamianWarS Follower of Isa Al Masih Supporter

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    can you give me some biblical examples of this style? Hebraic block logic may also have two opposing thoughts side by side that creates a tension. This tension is meant to be left unanswered and simply exist in tension.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019 at 11:18 AM
  13. JacksBratt

    JacksBratt Searching for Truth

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    People are talking to you.... just stop..... read.... comprehend.... and learn.
     
  14. DamianWarS

    DamianWarS Follower of Isa Al Masih Supporter

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    What you seem to be doing is implicitly recognizing the conflict then trying to fix it with information the text doesn't give.
     
  15. DamianWarS

    DamianWarS Follower of Isa Al Masih Supporter

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    Who told you it was literal? Paul takes from the account in the same way one would take from a non-literal account. Non-literal doesn't mean "make believe" it is truth presented in extremely precise words that has a greater focus then the literal. We may take the same approach using the parables which are also non-literal accounts.
     
  16. DamianWarS

    DamianWarS Follower of Isa Al Masih Supporter

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    I learn through discourse. I am not demanding these things, but I am challenging them in an open form meant for questions.
     
  17. -57

    -57 Well-Known Member

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    It does say...8 And the LORD God planted a garden in Eden,
     
  18. -57

    -57 Well-Known Member

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    The bible in several places presents Genesis as a literal and historical event.

    Why would Paul instruct the women of the church and base it upon something that never happened?

    1 Tim 2: 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve; 14 and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.

    If the above verse never happened....then what did happen?
     
  19. DamianWarS

    DamianWarS Follower of Isa Al Masih Supporter

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    It also tells us that there was no plants because it hadn't rained yet and because man was there to cultivate it. Then immediately after God makes man, then he makes a garden.

    It is important to show that a punishment for man was being thrown out this garden and to laboriously work the soil and eat of the very plants that haven't shouted yet. The garden seems to be a gift for the hardships life offers.
     
  20. DamianWarS

    DamianWarS Follower of Isa Al Masih Supporter

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    Because God ordained the words. If this is true it doesn't matter if it happened, what matters is what God says.

    I am agnostic to what happen, except that God did it so I have no replacement theories for you. I wasn't there so I don't know.
     
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