Gen 1:1 = Big Bang?

[Davian]

Reality has two sides. We experience both sides through the study of Scripture and through the observations in nature.

When you say 'we', for whom do you speak?

When there is an apparent contradiction between the two, the study of Scripture takes precedence. I know this is hard to swallow, but it's true. Just so you know.

It may be true that you allow your interpretation of scripture to take precedence, but you still have not shown that scripture is true. Just so you know.

As I asked earlier in this thread, do you have 'Truth', or do you just have religion?

 

[Chalnoth]

Reality has two sides. We experience both sides through the study of Scripture and through the observations in nature. When there is an apparent contradiction between the two, the study of Scripture takes precedence. I know this is hard to swallow, but it's true. Just so you know.

And how do you know it's true?

 

[Lakercom]

You rock AV and so does Josh Mcdowell. I have his book, More Evidence that Demands a Verdict. We had a YEC speak at our church a week ago. His topic was dinosaurs. Something I learned:
Q: How many dinosaur kinds were required to be on the ark?
A: Approxiamately 50.

 

[Chalnoth]

You rock AV and so does Josh Mcdowell. I have his book, More Evidence that Demands a Verdict. We had a YEC speak at our church a week ago. His topic was dinosaurs. Something I learned:
Q: How many dinosaur kinds were required to be on the ark?
A: Approxiamately 50.

Um, you do realize that the dinosaurs (except for birds) all died out 65 million years ago, right?

 

[AV1611VET]

Um, you do realize that the dinosaurs (except for birds) all died out 65 million years ago, right?

I've heard rumors to that effect. What's your point?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Big Bang?

Originally Posted by Lakercom You rock AV and so does Josh Mcdowell. I have his book, More Evidence that Demands a Verdict. We had a YEC speak at our church a week ago. His topic was dinosaurs. Something I learned:
Q: How many dinosaur kinds were required to be on the ark?
A: Approxiamately 50.

Originally Posted by Chalnoth Um, you do realize that the dinosaurs (except for birds) all died out 65 million years ago, right?

I've heard rumors to that effect. What's your point?

And the rumors will abound

NKJV) Ezekiel 7:26 Disaster will come upon disaster, And rumor will be upon rumor. Then they will seek a vision from a prophet; But the law will perish from the priest, And counsel from the elders.

 

[SkyWriting]

I'm assuming that this has been touched on before, so sorry for the repeat. I'ma new Christian and have started from the beginning, Genesis 1:1 - "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." I was thinking that perhaps the 'Big Bang' theory isn't too far from the truth. This passage doesn't say how God created the earth, just that he did. Could the big bang simply be God creating the earth? What do you think?

Because the big bang theory demands that there was an expansion of matter and energy from a singular point into what we see now as an accelerating "sphere" into whatever is outside the sphere, it is easy to imagine that Gen 1 is the same event.

More likely Gen 1 describes a remaking of the cosmos into what we see today. Like getting a re-manufactured IPhone from Apple. Nice design, but flawed and likely to fail pretty quick.

 

[Jazer]

Eden? We're supposed to be talking about reality here, not fantasy.

Eden is reality, the theory of evolution shows us that Eden is real. Would you like to join us in the real world? Eden was a biodiverse system. To reject Eden you would have to reject the theory of evolution. All of those animals and species that we read about in the Bible came from somewhere. If not the Middle East, if not Eden then tell me, where did they come from? Perhaps they came from the same time and location as the Bible, you just do not want to call it Eden. Just like the Hebrew people have a common ancestor and a founder but you do not want to call them Adam and Eve. Even though Adam and Eve lived at the right time in the right location as science tells us the common ancestor for the Hebrew people lived.

So if your going to reject Science, then you should do the honest thing and give up your computer.

 

[Jazer]

How dare the religious use the term 'born again.' That truly describes freethinkers who've thrown off the shackles of religion so much better!” - Julia Sweeney

Anyone that has to "thrown off the shackles of religion" was never born again and does not know what it means to be born again. If they have not been born again then they do not know what it really means to be free.

 

[Chalnoth]

Eden is reality, the theory of evolution shows us that Eden is real. Would you like to join us in the real world? Eden was a biodiverse system. To reject Eden you would have to reject the theory of evolution.

Hahaha, what? To reject a mythical garden where human beings (and, according to some theologians, animals as well) were immortal, I have to reject evolution? Why?

All of those animals and species that we read about in the Bible came from somewhere. If not the Middle East, if not Eden then tell me, where did they come from?

Oh, they certainly didn't come from the Middle East! Humans came from Africa, for one. Different species came from very different locations. And the first arrival of amphibians was too long ago for us to be sure where that happened.

I mean, where the heck do you think marsupials came from? Because there are no marsupials native to Africa, Asia, or Europe.

Perhaps they came from the same time and location as the Bible, you just do not want to call it Eden.

Absolutely not. Speciation happens all over the place, and is not and was not ever confined to one specific area (or even continent!). Different species can trace their origins to a broad variety of different locations. And that's just the origins we know about!

Just like the Hebrew people have a common ancestor and a founder but you do not want to call them Adam and Eve. Even though Adam and Eve lived at the right time in the right location as science tells us the common ancestor for the Hebrew people lived.

The Hebrew people were never composed of a single pair of persons.

So if your going to reject Science, then you should do the honest thing and give up your computer.

You know, that statement doesn't work very well when you say such silly things before it.

 

[Chalnoth]

Anyone that has to "thrown off the shackles of religion" was never born again and does not know what it means to be born again. If they have not been born again then they do not know what it really means to be free.

Right. Having been religious, and having thrown off the shackles of religion, I am quite sure which of the two was the more profound awakening.

 

[Jazer]

Hahaha, what? To reject a mythical garden where human beings (and, according to some theologians, animals as well) were immortal, I have to reject evolution? Why?

I already explained that. Because Darwins theory tells us about Eden. Perhaps this is a bit to difficult for you to learn and understand. It would require you to learn a little bit of science.

Different species came from very different locations.

Exactly, different species come from different locations. The species we read about in the Bible comes from the Middle East. We learn this NOT ONLY in our Bible. But Science confirms that these animals and species in the Bible come from the Middle East. So if you read and study as much as I have then you will see that Science even the theory of evolution confirms that what the Bible is saying is true.

This is really very easy, just pick a Bible animal. Sheep, Goats or whatever. Then look to see where they were domesticated. You will find that the Plants and Animals we read about in our Bible began in the Middle East. Grapes, Olives and things like that.

And the first arrival of amphibians was too long ago for us to be sure where that happened.

Do you read about amphibians in the Bible? If you do where in the Bible do you read about them? If they are not in the Bible then they must now have come from the Middle East.

I mean, where the heck do you think marsupials came from?

NOt the MIddle east or the Furtile Cresent. Because I do not see them in the Bible. They came from another "Eden" in another part of the world and they have nothing to do with our Bible.

The Hebrew people were never composed of a single pair of persons.

Great, wondeful. Show me your evidence or take back your claim. Talk is cheap without the Scientific evidence to back up your claim. All Hebrews have a male and a female common ancestor. If you studed up on a bit of science you would know this so you did not make claims that you can not provide evidence for. You could argue they did not live at the same point in time. Present your evidence. The Bible said they lived at the same point in time 6,000 years ago in the middle east. How easy should that be to prove wrong. Do your research, show us your scientific evidence that falsifys the Bible. From what you say it should be very easy to prove the Bible wrong. So do your research and present your scientific evidence. You keep saying that Eden did not exist. Then if your so convinced present your evidence to show us there was no Eden. You make it sound like it would be all so easy for you to prove that. So present your proof.

 

[Chalnoth]

I already explained that. Because Darwins theory tells us about Eden. Perhaps this is a bit to difficult for you to learn and understand. It would require you to learn a little bit of science.

Only in your fevered imagination. Where in the world did you get this strange idea, anyway?

Exactly, different species come from different locations. The species we read about in the Bible comes from the Middle East. We learn this NOT ONLY in our Bible. But Science confirms that these animals and species come from the Middle East. So if you read and study as much as I have then you will see that Science even the theory of evolution confirms that what the Bible is saying is true.

This is really very easy, just pick a Bible animal. Sheep, Goats or whatever. Then look to see where they were domesticated. You will find that the Plants and Animals we read about in our Bible began in the Middle East. Grapes, Olives and things like that.

So, what? You expected the Bible to talk about plants and animals from far-away lands that the authors knew nothing about?

 

[Jazer]

Only in your fevered imagination.

Oh, so now your going to add a personal attack to your lack of evidence. You lose the game charlie. Not only do you show up with nothing. You break the rules on top of it all. Point, set, match. Thanks for playing better luck next time.

So, what? You expected the Bible to talk about plants and animals from far-away lands that the authors knew nothing about?

I am here to prove the Bible is true. If it is NOT IN THE BIBLE, then there is nothing for me to prove. There are lots and lots and lots of things that are not in the Bible. We are only talking about what is actually IN the Bible.

 

[Chalnoth]

Oh, so now your going to add a personal attack to your lack of evidence. You lose the game charlie. Not only do you show up with nothing. You break the rules on top of it all. Point, set, match. Thanks for playing better luck next time.

I see you'll take any excuse to avoid actually supporting your absurd claims.

Evolution has nothing whatsoever to do with the myth of Eden. To claim the two are related is like claiming that physics depends upon Circe making Odysseus' men into pigs. It's pure lunacy.

 

[Jazer]

I see you'll take any excuse to avoid actually supporting your absurd claims.

You are the one that is not supporting your claims. I have lots and lots and lots of posts on this forum that supports my claim. Look them up. Click on my name and look at the many many many times I have repeated the Scientific DNA evidence to back up what I am saying. Here is an example and I have written a LOT of posts like this one:

Originally Posted by Nostromo

Show me a scientific paper that shows Abraham was a real person based on genetics and I'll give you a medal.
​

I gave you a book on that and here is a chapter out of that book that you can read for free:
Abraham's Chromosomes?

http://genome.cshlp.org/content/earl...72008.abstract

J1c3
The P58 marker which defines subgroup J1c3 (previously J1e) was first announced in Karafet et al. (2008), but had been announced earlier under the name "Page08" in 2006 in Repping, Van Daalen & Brown (2006).[4]

This cluster in turn contains three well-known related sub-clusters. First, it contains the majority of the Jewish "Cohen modal haplotype", found amongst Jewish populations, but especially in men with surnames related to Cohen. It also contains both the so-called "Galilee modal haplotype" and "Palestian & Israeli Arab modal haplotype" associated with Palestinians and Israeli Arabs by Nebel et al. (2000).[8] Nebel et al. (2002) then pointed out that this so called Galilee modal is also the most frequent type of J haplotype found in northwest Africans, and in Yemen, so it is not isolated to the area of Israel and the Palestine.

Human populations which exhibit greatly reduced overall genetic diversity, presumably resulting from severe bottlenecks or founder events, are particularly interesting, not least because of their potential to serve as valuable resources for health studies. Do you want to get into the heath studies that are a result of this founders effect? For one thing they do have an average IQ that is 10 points higher then normal.

The Hebrews over at that University in Jerusalam take that stuff very serious. The DNA shows us exactly what the Bible tells us. Abraham had two sons: One with Hagar the handmaid egyptian and the other son with Sarah his wife. That is why when it comes to Y-DNA the Arabs and the Hebrews have almost identical DNA.

You may not know it from the Scientific articals, but this is hot stuff over in the middle east where there are so many battles over the land and who owns the land.

 

[Chalnoth]

You are the one that is not supporting your claims. I have lots and lots and lots of posts on this forum that supports my claim. Look them up. Click on my name and look at the many many many times I have repeated the Scientific DNA evidence to back up what I am saying. Here is an example and I have written a LOT of posts like this one:

Originally Posted by Nostromo

Show me a scientific paper that shows Abraham was a real person based on genetics and I'll give you a medal.
​

I gave you a book on that and here is a chapter out of that book that you can read for free:
Abraham's Chromosomes?

http://genome.cshlp.org/content/earl...72008.abstract

J1c3
The P58 marker which defines subgroup J1c3 (previously J1e) was first announced in Karafet et al. (2008), but had been announced earlier under the name "Page08" in 2006 in Repping, Van Daalen & Brown (2006).[4]

This cluster in turn contains three well-known related sub-clusters. First, it contains the majority of the Jewish "Cohen modal haplotype", found amongst Jewish populations, but especially in men with surnames related to Cohen. It also contains both the so-called "Galilee modal haplotype" and "Palestian & Israeli Arab modal haplotype" associated with Palestinians and Israeli Arabs by Nebel et al. (2000).[8] Nebel et al. (2002) then pointed out that this so called Galilee modal is also the most frequent type of J haplotype found in northwest Africans, and in Yemen, so it is not isolated to the area of Israel and the Palestine.

Human populations which exhibit greatly reduced overall genetic diversity, presumably resulting from severe bottlenecks or founder events, are particularly interesting, not least because of their potential to serve as valuable resources for health studies. Do you want to get into the heath studies that are a result of this founders effect? For one thing they do have an average IQ that is 10 points higher then normal.

The Hebrews over at that University in Jerusalam take that stuff very serious. The DNA shows us exactly what the Bible tells us. Abraham had two sons: One with Hagar the handmaid egyptian and the other son with Sarah his wife. That is why when it comes to Y-DNA the Arabs and the Hebrews have almost identical DNA.

You may not know it from the Scientific articals, but this is hot stuff over in the middle east where there are so many battles over the land and who owns the land.

*sigh*

This shows a massive misunderstanding of what a Y-chromosomal ancestor even means. Here's a hint: it is not a single ancestral male from which all members of a population descended, because those men who only had daughters are also ancestors, but left none of their Y chromosomes behind.

It's also completely and utterly unrelated to your claim that Eden is somehow important to evolution.