Garden of Eden, tree of knowledge

[RuthJoseph]

In the beginning, god gifted us with the Garden of Eden. He showed it to Adam and Eve and said they could take and eat anything they desired.

Then, he took it upon himself to place a large, pretty tree in the middle of it - the tree of knowledge - and said we were never allowed to consume its fruit.

Why would he do that? To me it sounds like a parent telling their children that they can have all of these bowls of fruits and vegetables, but can't ever touch this bowl of delicious sweets that's right in front of them - and expecting their children will follow that command? I've had a lot of trouble reconciling this with the god I've come to know and love. Can anyone help me to understand please?

 

[grasping the after wind]

In the beginning, god gifted us with the Garden of Eden. He showed it to Adam and Eve and said they could take and eat anything they desired.

Then, he took it upon himself to place a large, pretty tree in the middle of it - the tree of knowledge - and said we were never allowed to consume its fruit.

Why would he do that? To me it sounds like a parent telling their children that they can have all of these bowls of fruits and vegetables, but can't ever touch this bowl of delicious sweets that's right in front of them - and expecting their children will follow that command? I've had a lot of trouble reconciling this with the god I've come to know and love. Can anyone help me to understand please?

You seem to have some misconceptions here. The Tree of Knowledge was in the Garden from the beginning not placed there later. God's prohibition was simultaneous with His invitation not a later addendum. If all you have to do is refrain from eating one thing, a thing you have never tasted and don't even know if you would like, while every other possibility is open to you and those possibilities are endlessly delightful, why is that so hard a burden?Rather than just arbitrarily "taking it upon himself" and commanding, God explained the reason He told them not to eat from that particular tree that was, that by eating from it, it would cause them to die. Wouldn't a good and loving parent try to keep their children from harming themselves by telling them to refrain from actions that would cause them to die?

 

[chris4243]

What always bugs me about that story is that it makes Satan seem like he's more honest and possibly nicer than God.

 

[realtruth101]

who can know the mind of God, His thoughts are so far above our thoughts, His ways are not our ways, you will drive yourself insane trying to figure God out. but rest in the assurance that He is good, and His desire for you is righteousness

 

[realtruth101]

What always bugs me about that story is that it makes Satan seem like he's more honest and possibly nicer than God.

yeah.....the father of all lies....look at how well he deceives, he's got you thinking he's nicer and more honest.......well it appears his job with you is done

 

[elman]

In the beginning, god gifted us with the Garden of Eden. He showed it to Adam and Eve and said they could take and eat anything they desired.

Then, he took it upon himself to place a large, pretty tree in the middle of it - the tree of knowledge - and said we were never allowed to consume its fruit.

Why would he do that? To me it sounds like a parent telling their children that they can have all of these bowls of fruits and vegetables, but can't ever touch this bowl of delicious sweets that's right in front of them - and expecting their children will follow that command? I've had a lot of trouble reconciling this with the god I've come to know and love. Can anyone help me to understand please?

I think it is a mistake to literalize the story. Everyman is Adam and is created with the ability to have a relationship with his Creator--to walk and talk with Him. We all as we mature make wrong choices and break this relationship. God however like the father of the prodical son is always ready to come and meet us and take us home with Him if we will pick ourselves up out of the pig pen we have placed ourselves in and try to go home.

 

[chris4243]

What always bugs me about that story is that it makes Satan seem like he's more honest and possibly nicer than God.

yeah.....the father of all lies....look at how well he deceives, he's got you thinking he's nicer and more honest.......well it appears his job with you is done

16 And the LORD God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

4 “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5 “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

22 And the LORD God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”


It seems like the difference between someone warning you not to eat some cookies because they're poisonous and you'll die, and someone killing you because you ate their cookie. Per verse 22, man would have had the option to live forever if God himself did not take it away. Judge for yourself what seems the more honest, rather than parroting what you've been taught about how nasty and evil Satan is.

 

[elman]

16 And the LORD God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

4 “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5 “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

22 And the LORD God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”


It seems like the difference between someone warning you not to eat some cookies because they're poisonous and you'll die, and someone killing you because you ate their cookie. Per verse 22, man would have had the option to live forever if God himself did not take it away. Judge for yourself what seems the more honest, rather than parroting what you've been taught about how nasty and evil Satan is.

Adam died spiritually the day he ate. Just as even now we each kill our own soul with our own sin. Ezekeil 18.

 

[realtruth101]

16 And the LORD God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

4 “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5 “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

22 And the LORD God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”


It seems like the difference between someone warning you not to eat some cookies because they're poisonous and you'll die, and someone killing you because you ate their cookie. Per verse 22, man would have had the option to live forever if God himself did not take it away. Judge for yourself what seems the more honest, rather than parroting what you've been taught about how nasty and evil Satan is.

Parroting what I've been taught? I don't need to read or know one verse in the bible, I have had first hand experience with devils and I can assure you they are not nice, and honesty is the farthest thing from them. but crafty as satan is, Did God really say that?......first thing he does is cause you to doubt that God has your best interest in mind.......and your already there

 

[solarwave]

Also to add to think Adam and Eve apparently didn't have knowledge of right and wrong before they ate from the tree and so wouldn't know that they shouldn't eat from the tree.

It all depends how literally you take it. If you think it is exactly how it happened there could be problem (but I think it can be understood by defining things in certain ways), the tree could represent the first sin which wasn't eating a fruit, or the whole thing could be metaphorical/ a myth. I'm gunna go with the last option.

So, how literally do you take the story and so what type of reply do you want?

 

[drich0150]

Why would he do that? To me it sounds like a parent telling their children that they can have all of these bowls of fruits and vegetables, but can't ever touch this bowl of delicious sweets that's right in front of them - and expecting their children will follow that command? I've had a lot of trouble reconciling this with the god I've come to know and love. Can anyone help me to understand please?

The tree represents True Choice. If anything and everything they did in the garden was indeed in the expressed will of God then Adam and eve had no real choice of their own because everything they did was in God will or in God's expressed Choosing for them.

The tree was the one area of the garden that represented a deed or action not in the expressed will of God. This is true Choice because we are now able to do or choose something that all mighty God does not want us to do.

The Choice the tree offers is "free will."

Here are the actual biblically based definitions of the following words:

Sin, is anything not in the expressed will of God.

Evil, is a malicious intent to be out side of the Expressed will of God.

Not all sin is Evil, but all evil is sin.

Free Will is the ability to be in a will not expressed or approved by God.

In other words "Free will" is the ability to Sin.

So why did God put the tree in the Garden? So that we would have the opportunity for Free Will.

 

[bling]

Answer this: would you prefer to be in a place where your eternal close relationship with God was dependent on your personal ability to “obey” or would you prefer to be in a place where your eternal close relationship with God was dependent on God’s Love found in His forgiveness (outside the Garden after sinning)?
I do not believe Adam and Eve were made with instinctive Godly type Love for that is not possible since Godly type Love is not a robotic type of love.

I believe the whole reason for making Adam and Eve was for them to have away to obtain Godly type Love for God’s Love would have compelled Him to make beings that could Love like He Loves.

In the Garden prior to sin, God is Loving Adam and Eve with Godly Love (unconditional, undeserving, selfless, sacrificial, a free gift), but in order for Adam and Eve to accept that Love as it was given they would have to realize they were accepting “Charity” and no human likes to accept charity and be humble. Humans are made with good instinctive self preservation, which generates self awareness, egos and some selfishness. Adam and Eve as excellent children would accept God’s love as parental love from an excellent parent. There is no need for Adam and Eve to be humble since they had done nothing wrong and what God was doing for them is to be expected of any good parent toward their good children.

After Adam and Eve sin (sin has purpose) they must trust God’s Love (faith) to forgive them which they now feel the need and Hope for a better relationship (heaven) and can humble themselves before God to accept charity (in the form of forgiveness) and thus Love much (…he that is forgiven much will Love much&#8230.

The Garden is a lousy place for man to fulfill his objective which was made known to Adam and eve and all of us.

 

[chris4243]

The tree represents True Choice. If anything and everything they did in the garden was indeed in the expressed will of God then Adam and eve had no real choice of their own because everything they did was in God will or in God's expressed Choosing for them.

The tree was the one area of the garden that represented a deed or action not in the expressed will of God. This is true Choice because we are now able to do or choose something that all mighty God does not want us to do.

The Choice the tree offers is "free will."

But why the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, the one that Satan claims and God confirms, that eating from it will make them more like God? Why not mark some random tree in the garden, and tell them to not eat from that one? That would give them a choice and also not deprive them of morality.

 

[chris4243]

Parroting what I've been taught? I don't need to read or know one verse in the bible, I have had first hand experience with devils and I can assure you they are not nice, and honesty is the farthest thing from them. but crafty as satan is, Did God really say that?......first thing he does is cause you to doubt that God has your best interest in mind.......and your already there

And yet I never said anything about anything outside the story of the Garden of Eden. I simply said that that one story makes Satan look like he's more honest, not that he in fact is.

 

[grasping the after wind]

And yet I never said anything about anything outside the story of the Garden of Eden. I simply said that that one story makes Satan look like he's more honest, not that he in fact is.

How does satan look more honest? The serpent says they won't die but they do die. Much later, but they do die and the serpent said they would not die if they ate from the tree.

 

[elman]

How does satan look more honest? The serpent says they won't die but they do die. Much later, but they do die and the serpent said they would not die if they ate from the tree.

I think you are correct except I think what God said about Adam dying the same day was true. He died spiritually the same time he was evicted from the garden.

 

[grasping the after wind]

I think you are correct except I think what God said about Adam dying the same day was true. He died spiritually the same time he was evicted from the garden.

That is certainly a valid interpretation but I'm only trying to deal with the strict wording of the story here so I didn't mention that.

 

[drich0150]

But why the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, the one that Satan claims and God confirms, that eating from it will make them more like God? Why not mark some random tree in the garden, and tell them to not eat from that one? That would give them a choice and also not deprive them of morality.

Would it not deprive God of morality at that point? If God lied to them so as to keep them from sin/Free Will then what is the point of having true choice to begin with? Why would a righteous God prepare them for Free Will, just to lie to them about how to obtain it? Why just not go on making them choose His own will over their own?

 

[HisHomeMaker]

In the beginning, god gifted us with the Garden of Eden. He showed it to Adam and Eve and said they could take and eat anything they desired. Then, he took it upon himself to place a large, pretty tree in the middle of it - the tree of knowledge - and said we were never allowed to consume its fruit. Why would he do that?

The story of the fall of man is about obedience to Father. He gives us free will. Without free will there cannot be love. We can choose to love, we can choose to be obedient to God, we can choose to sin or not.

Sin existed before man. Man is part of a cosmic story that began with the angels. Satan is a fallen angel, the king of evil and the best manipulator.

Does it matter if the story is historical or alegorical? I don't think so. It does, however, remind us of The Truth. Choose God or choose sin.

But why the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, the one that Satan claims and God confirms, that eating from it will make them more like God? Why not mark some random tree in the garden, and tell them to not eat from that one? That would give them a choice and also not deprive them of morality.

Can morality exist without free will? Is a seemingly moral robot really moral?

 

[grasping the after wind]

But why the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, the one that Satan claims and God confirms, that eating from it will make them more like God? Why not mark some random tree in the garden, and tell them to not eat from that one? That would give them a choice and also not deprive them of morality.

Without the knowledge of the difference between good and evil there is no basis for morality. If one doesn't know the difference how can one claim to be moral? In effect they were deprived of morality before they ate and had the potential for moral behavior after. Their sin was not from immorality but from disobedience and lack of faith in God. They listen to the words of the serpent and reject the words of God choosing to believe one that has done nothing to deserve their faith over the One who has given them every reason to believe that He speaks the truth. Had God not stipulated the tree of knowledge of good and evil as the one off limits Adam and Eve would still not have been aware that the thing that they had done was wrong. I think that the choice of that particular tree is central to the lesson we are to learn about the causes of sin and evil in the world.