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i think you might want to take a look at some of the post after thisThere is a lot of heresy in this thread.
You have no basis for your claim. The Bible does not say that the earth is flat. Why not a 7 day creation? Were you there? Do you have a hotline to God who says that He made it all up? How do you know what is made up and what is literal? For example, the book of Revelation describes Satan as the "Serpent of Old". Have you read God's response to Job's complaint in the last chapters of the book? Or is all that a fairy tale too? Where do you draw the line?Very litttle indeed. If my faith was based on that, I'd have cast it aside decades ago.
The New Testament .
The parts our Lord attested to.
Of the masses of rubbish that people "interpret" the Old Testament to "mean", very little. Flat earth? Seriously? Geocentric universe? Literal 7 day creation? A talking snake? Fruit from a magic tree? A flaming sword defending a terrestrial Eden? These things are the history of the beginning of humanity right enough, but none of it is literal.
But many are about the first flood that completely wiped out everything. God talks about that as well in Jeremiah 4
with 2nd Peter being a second witness to that.
Whereby—Greek, "By which" (plural). By means of which heavens and earth (in respect to the WATERS which flowed together from both) the then world perished (that is, in respect to its occupants, men and animals, and its then existing order: not was annihilated); for in the flood "the fountains of the great deep were broken up" from the earth (1) below, and "the windows of heaven" (2) above "were opened." The earth was deluged by that water out of which it had originally risen.
2 Peter 3:6 Commentaries: through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water.
I disagree with the interpretation of Jeremiah 4:23-26 is set during the time period between Genesis 1:1
Jeremiah 4:22 "For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge."
He's getting ready to tell them what happened when he shook the earth before in his anger-
Jeremiah 4:23 "I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
This verse totally takes us back to Genesis.
Jeremiah 4:24 "I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly
Everything shifted out of place. That's why the continents look like they used to fit together and why certain African animals are found fossilzed in the US and so on. It used to be a perfect climate. That's how God created it. He did not create it in vain. He didn't create a ruined wastland covered in water. He created it to be inhabited.
It's not reasonable to construe the above as being about Genesis chapter 1. Even verse 26 alone would undo such a guess.
- Where are we chronologically in Genesis 2? And,
- If God had created all these things in Genesis 1, where did they go in Genesis 2?
- Does this prove creation was not instantaneous over seven days? And,
- If so, which would be more probable: Gap Theory or Old Earth Creationism?
I think you have it a little backwards. What is the basis for taking it literally
Genesis accounts are not historical. They are figurative.
23 I looked at the earth,
and it was formless and empty;
and at the heavens,
and their light was gone.
24 I looked at the mountains,
and they were quaking;
all the hills were swaying.
25 I looked, and there were no people; (No humans - no man -- NASB)
every bird in the sky had flown away.
26 I looked, and the fruitful land was a desert;
all its towns lay in ruins
before the Lord, before his fierce anger.
There's an amazing chapter like that in Isaiah also, where after chapter after chapter of coming punishments of various nations, one at a time, comes an apocalypse on the whole world, the Earth laid waste.NASB Jer 4:
23 I looked at the earth, and behold, it was a formless and desolate emptiness;
And to the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I looked on the mountains, and behold, they were quaking,
And all the hills jolted back and forth.
25 I looked, and behold, there was no human,
And all the birds of the sky had fled.
26 I looked, and behold, the fruitful land was a wilderness,
And all its cities were pulled down
Before the Lord, before His fierce anger.
Jer 25
30 “Therefore you shall prophesy against them all these words, and you shall say to them,
‘The Lord will roar from on high
And raise His voice from His holy dwelling;
He will roar forcefully against His fold.
He will shout like those who tread the grapes,
Against all the inhabitants of the earth.
31 A clamor has come to the end of the earth,
Because the Lord has a controversy with the nations.
He is entering into judgment with humanity;
As for the wicked, He has turned them over to the sword,’ declares the Lord.”
32 This is what the Lord of armies says:
“Behold, evil is going out
From nation to nation,
And a great storm is being stirred up
From the remotest parts of the earth.
33 “Those put to death by the Lord on that day will be from one end of the earth to the other. They will not be mourned, gathered, or buried; they will be like dung on the face of the ground.
======================
Jer 4 and Jer 25 are in complete agreement - the result that is coming to Earth is "no humans" left alive on Earth - rather it will be "desolate" a desolate Earth with corpses from one end of earth to the other.
The NT agrees.
1. All the saints taken to heaven 1 Thess 4:13-18
2. All the lost slain - 2 Thess 1, Rev 19:21
There is no way to "downsize" Genesis 1 or the "desolate earth" of Jer 4 where all nations, all mankind is affected to the point of "no humans" left on the planet according to Jer 4. Their bodies not buried because there are no humans left here to do it as we see in Jer 25.
It's very very good to read Job from beginning through to the end. It's the only way to get the full meanings. Same for the wonderful chapters 38 thru 41.Yes, God is angry at Judah for all of the abominations and idoltry. He's going to then tell them they are a little sottish (no understanding) and don't even know him or what he did before but he will and sets the stage,
Jeremiah 4:23 "I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light."
This verse should take us right back to Genesis,
Genesis 1:2 "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep."
Same exact meaning in both verses.
God states in Isaiah he did not created the earth this way. This all happened at Satan's rebellion. Job tells of this time before it went down.
Job 38:4 "Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Job 38:7 "When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for Joy?"
God tells us in Isaiah that he did not create the earth void and without form, he created it to be inhabited and it was. So yes verse 26 would fit with this.
God restates this fact in 2nd Peter 3 that people are willingly ignorant about how old the earth really is.
Except when differs from the evidence found in God's actual handiwork. The "God designed it to look old" canard makes God into a cosmic stage magician, who makes things look like something they're not. You can buy that if you lke, I prefer to think that the author(s) of Genesis were giving us the children's version.You have no basis whatever for assuming that Genesis is primarily myth and legend.
Not to mention they’re creating explanations that are not said in the text, which is what they typically accuse the old earth camp of doing.Except when differs from the evidence found in God's actual handiwork. The "God designed it to look old" canard makes God into a cosmic stage magician, who makes things look like something they're not. You can buy that if you lke, I prefer to think that the author(s) of Genesis were giving us the children's version.
Another view: God uses visions (and dreams) to communicate most often --Except when differs from the evidence found in God's actual handiwork. The "God designed it to look old" canard makes God into a cosmic stage magician, who makes things look like something they're not. You can buy that if you lke, I prefer to think that the author(s) of Genesis were giving us the children's version.
I don't think that at all. My view is that the earth is old. The account in Genesis is of the recreation of the destroyed earth. Why would anyone want to give intelligent people a fable or "children's" version? Humanity is no more intelligent now than thousands of years ago. If anything, kids have been rendered dumber by technology that does all their thinking for them. Scripture is inspired by God. Men did not sit around the village square wondering how to explain creation to a bunch of ignoramuses who could not understand the truth. God revealed His word to them. They relayed it to us. If that bothers you, take it up with God. It's His book, not mine.Except when differs from the evidence found in God's actual handiwork. The "God designed it to look old" canard makes God into a cosmic stage magician, who makes things look like something they're not. You can buy that if you lke, I prefer to think that the author(s) of Genesis were giving us the children's version.
The problem with any kind of evolution is sin. If people evolved from another creature, how could they sin? No animal sins. No animal has a conscience. Why should an evolved being be any different? And how could a glorified ape become in the image and likeness of God? What animal has free will? How could that be a product of evolution?I tend to see it as historical and theological truth told through figurative and poetic language, where some parts dont need to be interpreted literally. I tend to lean to the old earth side of things. I’m also not really into theistic evolution, but I disagree with it being heresy, as it can be compatible with scripture as the processes through which God creates.
Except for the fact that the Genesis timeline doesn't square with the evidence of what God actually did. Which makes perfect sense given that God doesn't reckon time as we do. See 2 Peter 3:8There is no logical reason to doubt that the Old Testament is an accurate record of God's dealing with the human race from creation to the time that God stopped speaking to His people.
As an engineer daling with laymen, I did it all the time. Better to give then a give them a super-condensed version giving them all they needed to know in terms thay could grasp rather than start spouting technical details and watching their eyes glaze over. You svae the techno-speak for the customer's tech people. I'm telling both groups the truth, but if you think what I told the customer's management is technically correct and in detail you're sadly mistaken.I don't think that at all. My view is that the earth is old. The account in Genesis is of the recreation of the destroyed earth. Why would anyone want to give intelligent people a fable or "children's" version?
And they've never been a race of geologists. So you don't give them geologists' details that they haven't the education to understand. You say,"First this happened, then that, then the other, in 6 stages. Think of it as 6 days, day 1...".Humanity is no more intelligent now than thousands of years ago.
It's His book, but I've found it distinctly unhelpful in the realm of electrical engineering, and I 'spect it's no more help when you're doing geology.Men did not sit around the village square wondering how to explain creation to a bunch of ignoramuses who could not understand the truth. God revealed His word to them. They relayed it to us. If that bothers you, take it up with God. It's His book, not mine.