Galatians 3

[MysticFred82]

"For as many of you as vwere baptizedwinto Christ have xput on Christ. 28 yThereis neither Jew nor Greek, there is neitherslave7 nor free, zthere is no male and female,for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And aifyou are Christ's, then you are Abraham'soffspring, bheirs according to promise."

What do you MJs make of this passage and of the chapter in general?

I have had a rough day of going round and round about being a gentile/noahide and feeling a lack from not converting to Judaism and then doubting Jesus and worrying about idolatry. It's a common jumble of doubts. But I went to pray with my tefflin and a strong feeling hit me during prayer. I know that God accepts me "as if" or "with as much love as if" I was a Jew. I get feelings and senses and not written out statements so I don't know exactly how to word it or understand it. Could also be my imagination. It was an amazing experience though. Any ideas?

It could be that being a righteous gentile is all I NEED to do to be favored by God and all I'm called to and I need to stop worrying about it (which I think the Rabbis would say is true) or maybe it means something else.

 

[Anguspure]

Ahkh, Shalom shabat et Meshiach Yeshua

 

[Soyeong]

"For as many of you as vwere baptizedwinto Christ have xput on Christ. 28 yThereis neither Jew nor Greek, there is neitherslave7 nor free, zthere is no male and female,for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And aifyou are Christ's, then you are Abraham'soffspring, bheirs according to promise."

What do you MJs make of this passage and of the chapter in general?

I have had a rough day of going round and round about being a gentile/noahide and feeling a lack from not converting to Judaism and then doubting Jesus and worrying about idolatry. It's a common jumble of doubts. But I went to pray with my tefflin and a strong feeling hit me during prayer. I know that God accepts me "as if" or "with as much love as if" I was a Jew. I get feelings and senses and not written out statements so I don't know exactly how to word it or understand it. Could also be my imagination. It was an amazing experience though. Any ideas?

It could be that being a righteous gentile is all I NEED to do to be favored by God and all I'm called to and I need to stop worrying about it (which I think the Rabbis would say is true) or maybe it means something else.

The issue was that some Jews thought they were saved simply because they were Jews or that people thought that they had special status, so Paul was saying that we all come to Christ in equal grounds without regard to our status in this life. I recommend this sermon series on Galatians, as well as other studies and articles at this site:

Galatians- Messianic Jewish audio teachings by Stan Farr

 

[Open Heart]

"For as many of you as vwere baptizedwinto Christ have xput on Christ. 28 yThereis neither Jew nor Greek, there is neitherslave7 nor free, zthere is no male and female,for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And aifyou are Christ's, then you are Abraham'soffspring, bheirs according to promise."

What do you MJs make of this passage and of the chapter in general?

I have had a rough day of going round and round about being a gentile/noahide and feeling a lack from not converting to Judaism and then doubting Jesus and worrying about idolatry. It's a common jumble of doubts. But I went to pray with my tefflin and a strong feeling hit me during prayer. I know that God accepts me "as if" or "with as much love as if" I was a Jew. I get feelings and senses and not written out statements so I don't know exactly how to word it or understand it. Could also be my imagination. It was an amazing experience though. Any ideas?

It could be that being a righteous gentile is all I NEED to do to be favored by God and all I'm called to and I need to stop worrying about it (which I think the Rabbis would say is true) or maybe it means something else.

The verse simply means that everyone is equal before God. For example, men and women are equal before God -- God doesn't love men more than women, nor does he give women special treatment over men. Most importantly, both receive God's forgiveness through Yeshua's atonement in the identical manner. But it doesn't stop women from being women and men from being men, and each from having their respective roles per scripture.

Don't stress out! No worries, no worries. You are trying to reach a decision too early, by putting forth too much effort. You are in the information gathering stage, and you can't rush it. You just wish it were all worked out already, and it's uncomfortable that it isn't, because you keep going back and forth like a pendulum. Give it time!!!! HUGS!!!!

Remember that there is more than one right answer. Whether you convert to Judaism or whether you keep the commandments as a Noahide, or whether you chalk it up as a "phase" and go back to simply being a Gentile that "loves your neighbor as yourself" without keeping kosher or observing Shabbat, God will love you and accept you.

Are you in touch with a UMJC synagogue that offers conversion to Judaism? If so that is my preferred option. I certainly don't want to push it on you or make things more difficult for you. But if you want to talk about it, we could.

BTW, just to let you know, I too went through a phase where I doubted Yeshua. I struggled with the anti-semitism and violence in Church history, and it got so disturbing to me that I lost my faith and left the Church. I immediately began attending synagogue, and worked out my issues of status (I was a kind of crypto Jew).

I stayed in Judaism for many years, and at first was completely happy. But then longing for the sacrament and for a God who suffered for me came creeping back. I eventually returned to the Church, and am now highly involved with other Catholic Jews who are observant. I still attend the same synagogue, although my Rabbi is not at all happy with things. I just keep my mouth shut about Yeshua, out of respect for where I am.

From time to time, I'll be sitting in church and it STILL will occur to me, "I'm a Jew, what the heck am I doing in a church???? It's idolatry -- God is not a man that he should lie." But I just know that if I leave, the same issues will draw me back again. I might as well stay put -- Yeshua just owns my soul! LOL

 

[MysticFred82]

The verse simply means that everyone is equal before God. For example, men and women are equal before God -- God doesn't love men more than women, nor does he give women special treatment over men. Most importantly, both receive God's forgiveness through Yeshua's atonement in the identical manner. But it doesn't stop women from being women and men from being men, and each from having their respective roles per scripture.

Don't stress out! No worries, no worries. You are trying to reach a decision too early, by putting forth too much effort. You are in the information gathering stage, and you can't rush it. You just wish it were all worked out already, and it's uncomfortable that it isn't, because you keep going back and forth like a pendulum. Give it time!!!! HUGS!!!!

Remember that there is more than one right answer. Whether you convert to Judaism or whether you keep the commandments as a Noahide, or whether you chalk it up as a "phase" and go back to simply being a Gentile that "loves your neighbor as yourself" without keeping kosher or observing Shabbat, God will love you and accept you.

Are you in touch with a UMJC synagogue that offers conversion to Judaism? If so that is my preferred option. I certainly don't want to push it on you or make things more difficult for you. But if you want to talk about it, we could.

BTW, just to let you know, I too went through a phase where I doubted Yeshua. I struggled with the anti-semitism and violence in Church history, and it got so disturbing to me that I lost my faith and left the Church. I immediately began attending synagogue, and worked out my issues of status (I was a kind of crypto Jew).

I stayed in Judaism for many years, and at first was completely happy. But then longing for the sacrament and for a God who suffered for me came creeping back. I eventually returned to the Church, and am now highly involved with other Catholic Jews who are observant. I still attend the same synagogue, although my Rabbi is not at all happy with things. I just keep my mouth shut about Yeshua, out of respect for where I am.

From time to time, I'll be sitting in church and it STILL will occur to me, "I'm a Jew, what the heck am I doing in a church???? It's idolatry -- God is not a man that he should lie." But I just know that if I leave, the same issues will draw me back again. I might as well stay put -- Yeshua just owns my soul! LOL

Thanks! That was really helpful. Sounds like you've been there.

I think I need to stop calling myself a noahide of thinking of it in those terms. It's cool that the Rabbi's considered the other nations and made allowances for them, but it's a really hard and painful faith path to follow of being in faith but not a full member. Plenty of other Noahides have said such.

I can see myself a follower of Jesus/Yeshua since I accept him as messiah. I don't need to accept the other stuff that came later and I'm free to emulate the practices that He and his first generations of followers did before the church lost its Jewish roots.

Or I can I reject labels all together.

My relationship with Judaism is complicated. But the practices of Jewish prayer are where I feel God's presence the clearest and most profoundly. It's also praying the Shema in broken Hebrew that saved me. People talk about their "born again" moments. For me, I was already baptized but it was Judaism that taught me that the God I had been looking for in all sorts of crazy places was looking for me and had been there all along. It was a return to theism and was the most profound religious experience of my life. Reaccepting Christ was kind of a natural, eventual result of that moment. But as you know and have told me, rushing into full observance is impossible and a bad idea.
I had hardline Orthodox Jews (Breslov) who originally help "save me". telling me I was going to hell for visiting a Reform synagogue (it was the only one in town) or even finding more in common with Chabad. The synagogue at first didn't know what to think of me. My wife got really upset and told me I couldn't go anymore. The whole thing was awful.

 

[Open Heart]

Thanks! That was really helpful. Sounds like you've been there.

I think I need to stop calling myself a noahide of thinking of it in those terms. It's cool that the Rabbi's considered the other nations and made allowances for them, but it's a really hard and painful faith path to follow of being in faith but not a full member. Plenty of other Noahides have said such.

I can see myself a follower of Jesus/Yeshua since I accept him as messiah. I don't need to accept the other stuff that came later and I'm free to emulate the practices that He and his first generations of followers did before the church lost its Jewish roots.

Or I can I reject labels all together.

My relationship with Judaism is complicated. But the practices of Jewish prayer are where I feel God's presence the clearest and most profoundly. It's also praying the Shema in broken Hebrew that saved me. People talk about their "born again" moments. For me, I was already baptized but it was Judaism that taught me that the God I had been looking for in all sorts of crazy places was looking for me and had been there all along. It was a return to theism and was the most profound religious experience of my life. Reaccepting Christ was kind of a natural, eventual result of that moment. But as you know and have told me, rushing into full observance is impossible and a bad idea.
I had hardline Orthodox Jews (Breslov) who originally help "save me". telling me I was going to hell for visiting a Reform synagogue (it was the only one in town) or even finding more in common with Chabad. The synagogue at first didn't know what to think of me. My wife got really upset and told me I couldn't go anymore. The whole thing was awful.

I agree that labels aren't a good idea at this stage -- it's just premature.

Yeah, Orthodox Jews don't believe that Reform Temples are Judaism. I'm forced to attend one because it's the only synagogue in my neighborhood, and I feel like they don't know how to be Jews and it's so very, very sad. I really miss Chabad where I could progress to observance at my own pace and made it. But on the other hand, I'm just so very grateful to have fellow Jews to shmooze with, a place for Shabbat from time to time, and somewhere to go for the Holy Days.

My family, being Crypto's, already had traditions like studying Torah and keeping Shabbat (we were really weirdos at our church). When I began exploring my Jewish roots, I began attending an Orthodox shul and learning Hebrew, and I began like you by learning the blessings -- the candle lighting and kiddush. My husband became hostile and abusive: he was convinced that I had lied to him all the years we had been married, that I wasn't "really" a Christian. My kids loved Erev Shabbat, though.

Keep up your studies. I'm absolutely convinced that Hashem has a plan with you and his hand will guide you through all of this. So enjoy the excitement of all the learning -- the knowledge is like a beautiful garden in your heart. And pay attention to all the experiences you are having, committing the sounds and smells and sights to memory -- you never know what you are going to stick with and what will become just faded pictures.

How lucky you are to have these opportunities! Most people are like Hobbits who never venture past their own front doors, never have any adventures. But you are after the Arkenstone under the Mountain.

 

[danny ski]

As long as you live an ethical life without murder, theft, etc. what difference does it make what some guy said in a letter 2k years ago? It's just one man's opinion; no more, no less valid than your's. Any doctrine you bind yourself to, makes you a servant of that doctrine. When you arrive before the Almighty, do you honestly believe that He will care about your denomination, religion, philosophy?

 

[MysticFred82]

Post removed by author.

 

[MysticFred82]

As long as you live an ethical life without murder, theft, etc. what difference does it make what some guy said in a letter 2k years ago? It's just one man's opinion; no more, no less valid than your's. Any doctrine you bind yourself to, makes you a servant of that doctrine. When you arrive before the Almighty, do you honestly believe that He will care about your denomination, religion, philosophy?

Actually I think you're right. I kept going round and round about it. But if I were a Jew right now what would I do, I'd pray and try to be a good person. The extra observances would pretty much be for show. What do I do now? Pray and try to be a good person

 

[danny ski]

Actually I think you're right. I kept going round and round about it. But if I were a Jew right now what would I do, I'd pray and try to be a good person. The extra observances would pretty much be for show. What do I do now? Pray and try to be a good person

What's "extra observance"?If you were a pious Jew you'd do what's required of you. What does the Torah teach? Keep the commandments. There's nothing wrong with pragmatism, that's why everything is spelled out. And since you're not Jewish, why worry?

 

[MysticFred82]

What's "extra observance"?If you were a pious Jew you'd do what's required of you. What does the Torah teach? Keep the commandments. There's nothing wrong with pragmatism, that's why everything is spelled out. And since you're not Jewish, why worry?

Yes , you're absolutely right that I shouldn't worry about it. I'm going thru an identity crisis but the healthiest thing to do is let it go and not worry about what the Rabbis say. I could go in circles forever worry about who says what and I should only listen to God.

 

[Traveling teacher]

Do you know any messianic Jews in your area...
In other words believers in Yeshua as Messiah
I attend a messianic congregation in dallas. Tx
Although i am gentile
1 a month ....

Ask those guys for guidance and prayer

 

[Open Heart]

As long as you live an ethical life without murder, theft, etc. what difference does it make what some guy said in a letter 2k years ago?

If we are orthoprax, following the 613 and the teachings of the Rabbis, what difference does it make whether or not we believe those teachings?

 

[danny ski]

If we are orthoprax, following the 613 and the teachings of the Rabbis, what difference does it make whether or not we believe those teachings?

I'm not a big fun of that approach. Having said that... The Mosaic revelation was always designed as rules for the society as a whole. Allowing those who are not that religious, for the lack of a better word, to successfully function as well, with in it. The failure of the Israelites, as far as I am concerned, was not the lack of observance, but push of those who felt that it was not enough, the search for "more", that ultimately led to following other religious doctrines and other gods. This is, of course, an oversimplified POV, but... here you are, a Catholic Jew

 

[Open Heart]

I'm not a big fun of that approach. Having said that... The Mosaic revelation was always designed as rules for the society as a whole. Allowing those who are not that religious, for the lack of a better word, to successfully function as well, with in it. The failure of the Israelites, as far as I am concerned, was not the lack of observance, but push of those who felt that it was not enough, the search for "more", that ultimately led to following other religious doctrines and other gods. This is, of course, an oversimplified POV, but... here you are, a Catholic Jew

The key to Jewish identity has been and always will be the Torah. Forget about observing Torah, and Jewish identity slips away. Intermarriage creeps in, and before you know it, your grandchildren are no longer identifying as Jews. You line is lost to Israel.

I'm able to maintain my observance largely because of the support of other observant Catholic Jews around the world that I email with. We form a little community. Together, we encourage but don't demean, other Catholic Jews to take up observances, even if it is only one thing, to help seal their Jewish identity and pass it on to their children.