Gal 3 And Vs Law

its nice to come across someone that quotes/paraphrases/alludes to the rabbis.

Steve

p.s. if we are only to love others, does this mean we are not obligated to love God (as this is the Law)?

cyberlizard said:

p.s. if we are only to love others, does this mean we are not obligated to love God (as this is the Law)?

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If we love others honestly and sincerely then I suggest we demonstrate our love for God.

Originally Posted by Chickapee

Cribstyl said:

Is it that hard to post text and comment on what the apostle taught the churches?

It's obvious that some are trying to teach doctrines other than the gospel.

Peace2
CRIB

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Hi Crib Thanks for posting , I have been having computer problems ,

good to be back, and see your still hangin' in there

Oh yes , the warning of the teaching , doctrines of men
very plainly states '' so they can glory in your flesh '' love all of Gal by the way
Gal 6:13 For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law;

but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh.

to me the whole ''religious trap'' is for appearances , to be seen of men and glory in vain men ,

Oh the vanity

in the wisdom teachings of proverbs and sos nothing new under the SON/SUN


and that said :o ''no flesh pleases God ''

so we know that has very little to do with LOVE or the Spirit of God moving in the hearts of men

This is sad but true , the keeping the Law is for our own good ,

pricking the conscience and we would keep the Law because we love and respect Gods will / desire for us

to be saved and clean to recive His Spirit to dwell in us ,
that the Spirit of God will speak though us , being a chosen vessel of honor for His Glory and high praise
as Jesus Christ was a prime example for us to follow
obedience makes the Spirit stronger and the flesh will suffer because of it


and yet the Spiritual man is what is born of GOD

and delights in Gods law growing in Truth and grace /favor

Spirtual beings are the holy ones and Gods children doing Gods will and works ,

its is the very same works Jesus Christ was sent to do in this world

we shall also see and do ! great chapter in John 14 ,

the books of JOHN ARE FULL of the LOVE /LAW OF GOD in motion to me being

ALIVE in Christ [Son of God ] to the glory of God , and fulfilling the purpose intended..

Jhn 14:11Believe me that I [am] in the Father, and the Father in me:

or else believe me for the very works' sake.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me,

the works that I do shall he do also;

and greater [works] than these shall he do;

because I go unto my Father.And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do,

that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

its pretty awesome to me and love being spiritual [born again]

far more better than the days of glorying in my flesh ,

though it suffers now more than ever ,

its become dead weight to me now and very vexing ,

I am very grateful for the times in the Spirit of God they mean so much to me ,

I treasure them most in my heart ,

and thanking God through Jesus Christ for that Loving mercy on my soul ,

the Law of God being revealed / Jesus Christ '' the Living Body '' and True Church

peace to you bro and all , C

dude, Paul was someone who gloried in the flesh..... after all he made Timothy make his salvation of no worth by having him circumcised as a Jew'....

why would Paul do such a thing..... maybe he didn't want to spend an eternl life with Timothy being there....

what do you think his reasons were....

cyberlizard said:

dude, Paul was someone who gloried in the flesh..... after all he made Timothy make his salvation of no worth by having him circumcised as a Jew'....

why would Paul do such a thing..... maybe he didn't want to spend an eternl life with Timothy being there....

what do you think his reasons were....

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Hi Cyberlizard . thanks for the reply , to me perhaps ?

If your referring to Acts 16
I get that lol

but Honestly I dont think Paul was ever'' boasting/glorying '' about it


it was done out of necessity , because of the Jews , not required by the Law of God to be saved dont cha think ?

and this'' ACT '' was to make them Jews happy and trust Timothy and not KILL him ,

just because his father was a greek man according to the flesh ;( outward appearances

sometimes you do the laws of custom/ moses , to help those enter a more divine Spiritual state of being /Law of God

I do not think for one minute the Law of Moses is not good , because it is good !
how would we not know what sin was without the Law ?
and how would we not know the mercy and Grace of God without Jesus Christ ?

the Law of Liberty in Jesus Christ is something not to be abused
Paul makes a good case in 1Cr 10 in what is lawful

Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud,


and all passed through the sea;And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

And did all eat the same spiritual meat

1Cr 10:23¶All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient'convenient' "profitable);

: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.



jere is the place you were speaking of
thanks and God bless peace C


Act 16:3Him would Paul have to go forth with him; and took and circumcised him

because of the Jews which were in those quarters: for they knew all that his father was a Greek.

P.S I failed to mention that Paul being called by the Lords purpose /will

as a chosen vessel to Honor the Father and the Son on the

''road to Damascus ''
as muderer of the innocent children born of God /Church
by His own confession under the Law of Moses
to me being the tree of knowledge of good and evil
exposing Sin
and Paul become all things to all men that he by all means might save some
this to me is the Spirit of Gods mercy and Grace working in Him , he was not his own anylonger , but the Lord Jusus Christs , bondservant prisoner , chained to Christ Spritually speaking to do the Will of God having now a clean conscience
before the presence of the Lord
Paul spoke of the Lords coming to make things '' right ''and to Judge what is right

1Cr 4:5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.
peace C

that does not make it any easier.... paul was quite categorically....

17Nevertheless, each of you should live as a believer in whatever situation the Lord has assigned to you, just as God has called you. This is the rule I lay down in all the churches. 18Was a man already circumcised when he was called? He should not become uncircumcised. Was a man uncircumcised when he was called? He should not be circumcised. 19Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God’s commands is what counts. 20Each of you should remain in the situation you were in when God called you. (NIV)

this passage makes clear that timothy should have remained uncircumcised....


2Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law.

so now we have Paul circumcising Timothy, to please men, nullify his faith in Messiah and make him obligated to follow the whole law (which so many christians say believers are freed from).

I think but do not think will ever convince anyone that the current/traditional way of interpreting Paul is somewhat off kilter... we interpret him as a christian speaking to christians, whereas in reality he was a pharisee believer speaking to other believers (at that time mostly Jews but some gentiles as well.)

Steve

p.s. 'the law of liberty' is a second temple Jews as a euphemism (used a lot in rabbinic literature of the day) for Torah.

cyberlizard said:

... so now we have Paul circumcising Timothy, to please men, nullify his faith in Messiah and make him obligated to follow the whole law (which so many christians say believers are freed from).

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Well, Paul had Timothy circumcised - but perhaps the answer lies in Romans 3: 1-2. Here Paul extols circumcision perhaps to enable Timothy to demonstrate that as a Jew Timothy is faithful. I think Paul is here thinking as as Jew. But I also think Paul had a change of perspective further down the track.

The letter to the Galatians is a response to the issue about Law and Faith. Here Paul could see the dangers of 'his' new converts being challenged in their faith by Peter. What Paul could see is the distinct possibility that 'his' teachings becoming little more than another sect of Judaism.

I know that is a lame response and I'm doing some research on Paul - who has thus far escaped my more direct attention.

wayseer said:

Well, Paul had Timothy circumcised - but perhaps the answer lies in Romans 3: 1-2. Here Paul extols circumcision perhaps to enable Timothy to demonstrate that as a Jew Timothy is faithful. I think Paul is here thinking as as Jew. But I also think Paul had a change of perspective further down the track.

The letter to the Galatians is a response to the issue about Law and Faith. Here Paul could see the dangers of 'his' new converts being challenged in their faith by Peter. What Paul could see is the distinct possibility that 'his' teachings becoming little more than another sect of Judaism.

I know that is a lame response and I'm doing some research on Paul - who has thus far escaped my more direct attention.

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the emboldened bit highlights an extremely serious problem - the problem is that if Paul is changing his theology throughout the new testament, then his writings lose authority.... you can no longer be sure which is the correct interpretation/application of his understanding of the OT scriptures or anything. This also impacts the rest of the writings in the NT, in the end you end up not being able to trust any of it.

it creates more problems than it solves... i think it is best if we acknowledge that much our our understanding of Paul (viewed through protestant eyes of justification by faith ONLY (without regards to good deeds or living a holy lifestyle) needs serious review and consideration. This has been the case since the 70's with authors like Sanders and others creating what has beocme popularly known as 'the new perspective on Paul (NPP for short)).



Steve

p.s. i think the easiest way to resolve the issue is to re-examine galatians and stop seeing the word 'circumcision' as the OT command, but rather in its technical meaning 'rabbinic/halakhic conversion to judaism'. When we do this, it gets so much easier to interpret Paul.

cyberlizard said:

i think the easiest way to resolve the issue is to re-examine galatians and stop seeing the word 'circumcision' as the OT command, but rather in its technical meaning 'rabbinic/halakhic conversion to judaism'. When we do this, it gets so much easier to interpret Paul.

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I agree. My previous post was an attempt to answer your question concerning Paul and Timothy.

Back in those bloody days of Abraham circumcision was a sign, a token, an acknowledgment - the beginning of the way back. Paul was demonstrating that Jesus death was that new sign - there was no need of any further need of spilt blood - we died through Adam yet live through Yeshua.

great post ! Steve and wayseer,
I agree , its the new way of Jesus Christ being the ministry of
reconciliation where the divisions / chasm were/ are they shall be all consummated in Christ Jesus Lord and Saviour

Paul speaks often of this concept
con·sum·mate [v. kon-suh-meyt; adj. kuh n-suhm-it, kon-suh-mit] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation verb, -mat·ed, -mat·ing, adjective –verb (used with object) 1.to bring to a state of perfection; fulfill. 2.to complete (an arrangement, agreement, or the like) by a pledge or the signing of a contract: The company consummated its deal to buy a smaller firm. 3.to complete (the union of a marriage) by the first marital sexual intercourse. –adjective 4.complete or perfect; supremely skilled; superb: a consummate master of the violin. 5.being of the highest or most extreme degree: a work of consummate skill; an act of consummate savagery.
[Origin: 1400&#8211;50; late ME (adj.) < L consumm&#257;tus (ptp. of consumm&#257;re to complete, bring to perfection), equiv. to con- con- + summ(a) sum + -&#257;tus -ate1 ]
the Word, Jesus Christ , Sum of Truth in Davids psalms Blue Letter Bible Sum (Noun), Sum up
1NounStrong's Number: 346Greek: anakephalaioo

"to sum up, gather up" (ana, "up," kephale, "a head"), "to present as a whole,"


is used in the Passive Voice in Rom 13:9, RV, "summed up" (AV, "briefly comprehended"),


i.e., the one commandment expresses all that the Law enjoins, and

to obey this one is to fulfil the Law (cp. Gal 5:14); Middle Voice in Eph 1:10, RV, "sum up"

(AV, "gather together"), of God's purpose to "sum up" all things in the heavens and on the earth in Christ,

a consummation extending beyond the limits of the church, though the latter is to be a factor in its realization.






dictionary .com lots more here reconciliation - Definitions from Dictionary.com

noun
1.an act of reconciling or the state of being reconciled.
2.the process of making consistent or compatible.
God Bless Peace C